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CommanderByron (568 D (S))
Sat 20 May UTC
Gauging Interest: Econ-Dip
See Inside
31 replies
Open
Namejeff (279 D)
Mon 10 AM UTC
GTA 7
Does anyone have GTA 12 that I can borrow for my comrade
1 reply
Open
bobarctor1977 (65 D)
Thu 18 May UTC
Would anyone be interested in joining a game with some friends of mine and I?
I have 3 friends that I would like to introduce to the game, but can't seem to talk anyone else into playing with us for a full Ancient Med game. Just a casual, low-bet game, probably 2 day turns.
18 replies
Open
Hippopankake (0 D)
Sat 20 May UTC
New game
I'm thinking about making a game where you have to have a war goal and a justification for going to war similar to paradox games thoughts ?
7 replies
Open
leon1122 (183 D)
Thu 18 May UTC
(+1)
German Man Imprisoned for 10 years for Holocaust Denial
See below
381 replies
Open
brainbomb (279 D)
Sun 21 May UTC
Lawmaker threatened with Lynching after calling for Trumps impeachment.
http://www.ketv.com/article/racial-slurs-hurled-at-lawmaker-after-calling-for-trumps-impeachment/9901862
4 replies
Open
Hauta (1423 D (S))
Sun 21 May UTC
(+1)
Hehe, Trump just bowed to Saudi king and curtsied too
Just another example of Trump hypocrisy. He slammed Obama for merely bowing. The curtsy was bigly over the top.
32 replies
Open
brainbomb (279 D)
Sat 20 May UTC
Juggernaut is actually a horrible alliance
Despite the fearmongering ive seen in Press games about Juggernauts over the past 5 years ive been here...I cant help but note its low rate of success and how its paranoia often benefits France or England most. Please share games where Juggernauts fail miserably. But also include ones which work out in a 2wd (if there even is such a situtation)
10 replies
Open
peterwiggin (14532 D Mod (S))
24 Mar 17 UTC
Spring 2017 SoW Study Game
This thread is for commentary and discussion on the spring 2017 School of War Study Game: gameID=194603

233 replies
Open
Jamiet99uk (29 D (B))
Sat 20 May UTC
(+1)
Mafia
It's been a while since the last game of Mafia. When does the next one start?
19 replies
Open
brainbomb (279 D)
Thu 18 May UTC
(+1)
Is it Treason to sympathize with the Confederacy?
Shouldnt it be treason to sympathize with the Confederacy? We fought a war and defeated them. Hundreds of thousands died more than any war fought by America. For people who still wish the south had won- chant the south shall rise again or fly its flags isnt this treason?
86 replies
Open
Crazy Anglican (201 D)
Sat 20 May UTC
Dresden Files rpg
Anybody here played it or better yet GM'ed it?
0 replies
Open
Fluminator (309 D)
Thu 18 May UTC
Should otherkin be forced to give up their human rights?
Are there any otherkin on this site? I'm genuinely curious to understand this culture more. If you identify as something non-human, do you think you have a right to get the privileges that all humans deserve? Or do you believe you're in a separate category and thus have different standards and base rules to start off with?
20 replies
Open
Hippopankake (0 D)
Sat 20 May UTC
New game
I'm thinking about making a game where you have to have a war goal and a justification for going to war similar to paradox games thoughts ?
0 replies
Open
Fat backstab (75 D)
Mon 15 May UTC
(+1)
WebDiplomacy
I feel this would be a much better game if you destroyed all of the thots accounts
52 replies
Open
Jamiet99uk (29 D (B))
Mon 15 May UTC
(+2)
Trump hands highly classified information to the Russians
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-revealed-highly-classified-information-to-russian-foreign-minister-and-ambassador/2017/05/15/530c172a-3960-11e7-9e48-c4f199710b69_story.html?tid=ss_fb&utm_term=.ef65b5b012be

What a liability this man is.
43 replies
Open
Hauta (1423 D (S))
Tue 16 May UTC
Hillary's secret agenda
Someone made a comment that they voted for Trump because they were worried about Hillary's secret agenda. What was she going to do that was so bad?
44 replies
Open
CAPT Brad (1739 D (B))
Wed 17 May UTC
Why Should Hillary Have Been Elected President
Explain concrete reasons why.
81 replies
Open
TrPrado (372 D)
Thu 18 May UTC
Betty Shelby Found Not Guilty of Manslaughter
I'm just left wondering how the DA bungled what should have been an open-shut conviction.
6 replies
Open
Yoyoyozo (1104 D Mod)
Sat 13 May UTC
Does .999... equal to 1?
I'm drunk and I havent seen this thread in a while. What do you guys think?
Ezio (1381 D)
Sat 13 May UTC
(+1)
yes
superkeiko (239 D)
Sat 13 May UTC
(+2)
Yes, and no. The idea is the limit(Calculus speak) of .9999.... approaches 1.
If you need to assign a value to the concept of the infinite sum of .9+.09+.009+.0009....,it would be 1. Without lost of generality, this touches deeply on the Epsilon-Delta concept of a limit(Google it).
However, this is the classical view, there are more erotic view like the hyperreal number system. The idea in the hyperreal is the difference between .99999... and 1 is an infinitesimal quantity. Hence, there is no real number that can be consider to be the difference between .99999... and 1.
superkeiko (239 D)
Sat 13 May UTC
(+1)
The idea of this is actually quite profound and touches on the fundamental property of what we consider real numbers. This property is known as the completeness of the reals.
CptMike (2097 D)
Sat 13 May UTC
(+1)
Hi Yoyoyozo,

Try to look for a mathematical definition of " = " and you will see it is hard to find one for which 0.999... is not " = " to 1.

Eg: two numbers are equal when the difference between them can be as small as you fix it ; ...
VillageIdiot (3210 D)
Sat 13 May UTC
*slaps drink out of yoyo's hand*

I assume this post was a cry for help. I cast shame on those of you who indulged it.
TrPrado (372 D)
Sat 13 May UTC
Oh God, not another one.
TrPrado (372 D)
Sat 13 May UTC
1/3 = .333......
3 * 1/3 = .999...
3/3 = 1
.999... = 1
MajorMitchell (1009 D)
Sat 13 May UTC
(+1)
& if a = 0.9999999, then 10 × a = 9.99999, so 9 a is 9.999999 minus 0.999999 giving 9a = 9 so a = 1 as someone else posted in one of the many previous threads on this.
Keep drinking Yoyoyozo. and we can discuss how many angels can sit on the point of a pin ( and paraphrasing from the Paul Kelly song ) how many notes on a saxaphone & how many tears in a bottle of gin.
DammmmDaniel (94 D)
Sat 13 May UTC
Oh My God superkeiko I love it when you talk dirty math to me. Tell me the erotic view again ;) DriLL Integrals into me.
On a more serious note I made an A in calculus and learned nothing!
YAY!
captainmeme (593 D Mod)
Sat 13 May UTC
Glad to hear that Vash Approval got you through your exams, Daniel :)
DammmmDaniel (94 D)
Sat 13 May UTC
LOL that problem was completely wrong Captainmeme xD. The whole class tore me apart
Yoyoyozo (1104 D Mod)
Sat 13 May UTC
(+4)
I was just about to make fun of the sad soul that revived this thread. But alas...
superkeiko (239 D)
Sun 14 May UTC
Hey, you asked a math question, and I answered as any mathematician would. The idea is the conventional system(the reals), and more erotic ones, like complex(what is the square root of -1?), and even more erotic ones like hyper real, a good primer is the Infinitesimal approach to Calculus(https://www.math.wisc.edu/~keisler/calc.html).
superkeiko (239 D)
Sun 14 May UTC
(+1)
The idea is that .999999... is an infinite sum, and if it converges, there is a limit, and if there is a limit, there is a real number associated with it. The following sum also converges to 1, 1/2+1/4+1/8+1/16....=1. However, be wary of there algebraic argument like TrPrado stated, though it gives the correct result in this case, rearrangement of infinite sums can fail.
Fluminator (309 D)
Sun 14 May UTC
a = 0.999....
10a = 9.999....
10a = 9 + a
9a = 9
a = 1
Fluminator (309 D)
Sun 14 May UTC
ah poop. Mitchell beat me to it, but he drowned his proof in text so my eyes glossed over it.
TrPrado (372 D)
Sun 14 May UTC
The proof I used is the easiest one to cite if you want to use an algebraic one. It's straightforward, makes sense, and is correct. Anyone who tries to do something else there is trying too hard to come up with a result.
JamesYanik (329 D)
Sun 14 May UTC
i used to question it but i met a mathematician who cleared it up for me a bit more in detail. however, he also said he had a friend who worked at a swiss university in quantum physics (or something related) and they didn't work with 1=.999 as a constant all the time, but that stuff was crazy complicated
superkeiko (239 D)
Sun 14 May UTC
Divergent series are the invention of the devil
- N. H. Abel Mathematician
I did not mean to say that TrPrado was "wrong" or anything like that. However, I did wish to point out the counter intuitive nature of infinity, and to inject some rigor into this math discussion.
For instance, consider the sum, S = 1 - 1 + 1 - 1...., then.
1. S = (1-1)+(1-1)+(1-1)...=0
2. S = 1 +(-1+1) +(-1+1)....=1, and
3. S = 1-1+1-1+1-1....
0+S = 0+1-1+1-1+1....
which implies 2S =1, or S =1/2
This is known as the Grandi's Series.
superkeiko (239 D)
Sun 14 May UTC
(+1)
The sum .99999... is what we called well behaved, and Grandi's Series isn't. Like division by 0, you need to be careful about the rules.
orathaic (1009 D (B))
Sun 14 May UTC
Thank you Superkeiko, i appreciate a mathematician when i see one.

To others, thank you for being rigourous non-mathematicians who still hold onto your ability to use mathematcs.
MajorMitchell (1009 D)
Mon 15 May UTC
(+1)
This erotic numbers caper is one thing, but what about a "real world" application ?.. For example, Is 0.99999(recurring) of a Brainbomb equal to one Brainbomb ? Might that undefined, unquantifiable part that is the difference contain the essential spark that makes the difference between genius artist and the banal imitator ?
WyattS14 (10 D)
Mon 15 May UTC
@Mahor Mitchel
I love that your points are at 999
slypups (1025 D)
Mon 15 May UTC
Pretty sure you mean "exotic" numbers there superkeiko. A bunch of us are giggling themselves silly over those "erotic" numbers. Some have said the most attractive waist-to-hip ratio in a woman is 0.7, so maybe that's one of those erotic numbers.
superkeiko (239 D)
Mon 15 May UTC
@MajorMitchell The real world application of infinite sums are numerous. First, infinite sums are either converging or not.
Let's consider the converging one(well behaved). If so, we can use a finite number of that sum to get reasonable accurate approximation of more complex computation accurately.
A clear example is computation method for sin(x), cos(x), tan(x) using Taylor series. The quick and efficient trigonometry is crucial for navigation on sea and air, and geospatial application(GPS) though we as a species has long master this type of application(there are question of physics here as well).
In earlier times, you had trigonometry table that require much more labor to chart sea lane and so on.
The idea of making sure that a infinite sum, or finding a infinite sum that are well behaved that suits your application is crucial you don't get a contradiction somewhere. Since if you are not careful, you could get 1=2 if you accidentally do a division by 0. The idea here is the same.
In fact, I think the cutting edge of this field is trying to tame divergent infinite sums in computing quantum physics-related questions(not so well behaved infinite sum).
Jeff Kuta (2118 D)
Mon 15 May UTC
Mods, please move the contents of this thread into the one called "Unanswerable Questions".

Thank you.
CAPT Brad (1739 D (B))
Mon 15 May UTC
Does anybody really know what time it is? Does anybody really care? (to know what time) I can't imagine why.
CAPT Brad (1739 D (B))
Mon 15 May UTC
The adventure of the journey is not in the arrival at the destination. Do we really want to arrive at one.
orathaic (1009 D (B))
Mon 15 May UTC
It is approximately now. Like RIGHT now, time measurements are isually relative, and absolutely depend on your frame of reference... And Einstien says it is even more complicated, that there is no absolute time (or space).

In fact the universe is bundled up into little self-contained areas disconnected from each other by time and space. You could theoretically connect them with a wormhole, and even go 'back' in time, but you'd end up so far away from your starting point there would be no way to send a message back to tell yourself not to go.

No plausible way for the past of 'far far away' to affect the present now. So in effect it is a different self-contained universe. (Unless you figure out how to build wormholes... which MIGHT allow you to connect two of these).


So When is it? Well on a local level it is meaningful to say when we are... But nothing Universal.
CAPT Brad (1739 D (B))
Mon 15 May UTC
* usually and Einstein

Does anybody really know what time it is? Does anybody really care? (to know what time) I can't imagine why.
ksako8 (556 D)
Mon 15 May UTC
(+1)
I care what time is
MajorMitchell (1009 D)
Tue 16 May UTC
Well superkeiko clearly the contradictions ( and paradoxes ) of domesticity with the fire breathing MemSahib, Her Indoors lying on a sofa eating cake are an infinite sum without any practical limits. Personally I prefer a few "stiffening whiskies" before I try any "erotic numbers" on the MemSahib navigable parts. I am trying to keep up to speed with Orathaic's dissertation on "now" and "when". When is a way to link the past with the future in timespeak that references now. Any fool knows that. I get a little lost contemplating the "event horizons" that differentiate and delineate future when and past when from now. Stuff like that is beyond the limits of my clockwork brain, probably because it's timing is off and needs to be advanced by several degrees. Looking forward to when, and remembering when at the same time is indeed tricky.
MajorMitchell (1009 D)
Tue 16 May UTC
Actually superkieko, my favourite imaginary (?) number is the square root of minus one. There's a number that definitely "punches well above its weight class" Before we had i, finding the square root of a negative number was a vexatious exercise without solution. Once I was introduced, life became so much easier... Square root of minus sixteen ? It no longer strkes fear into the heart of budding mathematicians... "Plus, or minus 4i " comes the carefree response of these mollycoddled young maths swots. When we were young we didn't have these gimcrack luxuries, useful as they are.
superkeiko (239 D)
Tue 16 May UTC
(+1)
The thing is real numbers themselves are much more mysterious and elusive than you can imagine in everyday and were taught in school.
Most if not all numbers we used everyday or are taught in school are rational:
a. 1 dollar for that bread.
b. 0.12 dollars for the tax on that bread
c. 1/3 price per earnings for that stock you like, (or .333333....)
d. 1.3 cm for some measurement some scientist is doing.
Only sometimes does irrationals pop up:
a. pi, the ratio of diameter/radius to the circumference of a circle(we did fixed the convention of using diameter, but really, either ratios are irrational)
b. golden ratio(yeah, some designers like it)
c. square roots(whenever a triangle is present, or even navigation)
d. The values of sin(x) are generally irrational as well.
Now, here is the crazy part. All but a countable set of real numbers are irrational. And countable set is the "smallest" type of infinity we know. What does that mean? It means that most of us have been looking at sands on a infinite beach while ignoring much more massive infinite ocean.
Now, here is the crazier part, most real numbers we know are algebraic. More precisely, can be written as
superkeiko (239 D)
Tue 16 May UTC
roots of non zero polynomial with rational coefficients. Those that are not are known as transcendental numbers. And we only know a few, pi, and Euler's number(e) come to mind.
And All but a countable set of real numbers are transcendental. So, we have a really massive unexplored ocean that we as a species have never ever set foot on even in the real numbers.
Imagine, do you think the universe is a transcendental place where we as humans are doomed to measure it with only algebraic rulers. Never being given that chance to taste all but a fraction of what our universe has to offer, and only being able to gleams it ever so elusively in our own thoughts, if ever.

Pure mathematics is, in its way, the poetry of logical ideas.
-Albert Einstein
Unstupid (217 D)
Tue 16 May UTC
Is arithmetic consistent?
orathaic (1009 D (B))
Tue 16 May UTC
Unstupid, you mean complete? I guess you could ask Kurt Friedrich Gödel.
MajorMitchell (1009 D)
Wed 17 May UTC
Luxury, what a luxurious mathematics you young fighters take for granted. When I were a lad we had to struggle, work all day and night in coal pit, lick road clean with tongue, live with eighteen point 99999 recuring other families in old paper bag caught on barb wire fence, just to get a glimpse of a logarithm, and if we looked too long at it, why Dad would beat us to death with a broken beer bottle... The good old days. Aye, and nowadays, you tell young folk of it, and they just don't believe you.
MajorMitchell (1009 D)
Wed 17 May UTC
Typos.young blighters..not young fighters.
superkeiko (239 D)
Thu 18 May UTC
Bump. As for erotic numbers, google sexy prime. =)
MajorMitchell (1009 D)
Thu 18 May UTC
I did. According to Wikipedia such things exist. Prime numbers that differ by six. Plus a blurb about prime triplets. Who could doubt the veracity of information at Wikipedia. LoL
Unstupid (217 D)
Thu 18 May UTC
@Orathaic, no. I mean "Are the basic rules of set theory consistent with each other"
superkeiko (239 D)
Thu 18 May UTC
@Unstupid, and Orathaic
We need a formal definition of consistent, and completeness in logical systems before proceeding. (They are different but related concepts).

Let us consider only logic system has statements, which can either be true or false.
(So we are doing the 2-valued/binary logic systems only.)
Some statements are axioms[we generally want as little axioms as possible], which are statement that are the "foundation" and need not be proven.
Other true statements are theorem that follow from the axioms using a logical process(aka proofs)
A logic system is consistent if using the axiom(s), for all statement P which is true, then ~P(the negation of P) is false. Now, we generally want consistent systems since proof by contradiction is so fundamental to so many proofs. Note here that formulation of "good" axioms that don't contradict each other somewhere along the way is the key to a "consistent" system.

A logic system is complete, if using the axiom(s), all possible "well formed" statements are decidable. Decidable means that we can, even if we don't know the actual proof, know that the proof actually exist within the logic system.
Now, you will need to specific which system are you talking about? ZFC? Or Peano Arithmetic?
The reality is that for we don't know if ZFC(the conventional set theory) is consistent or not. However, no one has found any inconsistent yet, and mathematician generally think ZFC is consistent, and all proof in ZFC have an implied "assuming ZFC is consistent, then...." However, if ZFC is consistent, then it is definitely not complete(incompleteness theorem, hence the reference to Godel).
orathaic (1009 D (B))
Thu 18 May UTC
The amazing thing is how the completeness theorem leads to turing machines and the stopping problem.

a turing machines mechanism is equivalent to a set of axioms, and so incompletness maps onto not knowing whether a particular input will stop. Thus resolve as true or false whatever question you may have asked (the input).

This means any computer program (taken as input) can be in a state of running forever, if you're not careful.

And several computer scientists/marhematicians have contrasted this with human creativity and problem solving - to basically say we are not turing machines.
superkeiko (239 D)
Fri 19 May UTC
(+1)
@orathaic, I think it might be a good thing that humans exhibition contradiction then. I personally think that historically mathematics and set theory has been focusing too much on building a consistent system.(AKA the program of axiomizing all of math, and Godel put a monkey wrench in it, imagine those scholars that devotes lifetimes to it to be told it is impossible) If you can keep the contradiction into a finite and known set, perhaps a complete but finitely inconsistent system would be preferable.


45 replies
peterlund (1084 D (G))
Thu 18 May UTC
Robert Mueller my hero!
At last you are getting something right over there. Put that traitor into prison where he belongs!
12 replies
Open
DemonOverlord (447 D)
Tue 16 May UTC
WDC
Is in Oxford this year. Anyone going?
11 replies
Open
WyattS14 (10 D)
Tue 16 May UTC
(+1)
History of The Entire World, I Guess
If you haven't watched this video, I urge you to do so right now. (And let's start a discussion, why not? I'd like to hear what Zmaj and James have to say.
https://youtu.be/xuCn8ux2gbs
8 replies
Open
stranger (665 D)
Wed 17 May UTC
convoy rules
If my opponent moves his army from Tuscany to Piedmont and I convoy my Piedmont army to Tuscany via the gulf of lyons at the same time, will they swap places?
8 replies
Open
rojimy1123 (572 D)
Thu 18 May UTC
Chris Cornell, 1964-2017
My inner teenager is crying. RIP.
8 replies
Open
Jacob63831 (61 D)
Tue 16 May UTC
What is the meaning of life?
Is it Memes?
Is it Bill Cosby?
18 replies
Open
kaner406 (366 D)
28 Mar 17 UTC
(+2)
Advertise your NON-live games here!
In an effort to combat advertising for games inside otherwise unrelated threads: Post here for your non-live games to cut down on the number of ads that thread readers are subjected to. Post game link, game type and the bet. Note: this doesn't count for special rules games.
58 replies
Open
orathaic (1009 D (B))
Mon 15 May UTC
Interesting read
I'd like to hear what the right wing thinkers (and not trolls) think of this article, as well as the liberals here.

Mostly a criticism of market liberalism: https://jacobinmag.com/2017/05/handmaids-tale-margaret-atwood-trump-abortion-theocracy
15 replies
Open
wasdok (0 D X)
Thu 18 May UTC
SSD AUTOMATIC CHEMICAL SOLUTION FOR
SSD AUTOMATIC CHEMICAL SOLUTION FOR CLEANING DEFACED
ssdsolutionlab1@gmail.com

7 replies
Open
orathaic (1009 D (B))
Wed 17 May UTC
Tax dodging and capital flight
Ok, this youtube video discusses it. In brief, company extracts mineral wealth, sells for a low price to parent company based in a tax haven, declares no/very little profit. ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ocm42ytXto )
13 replies
Open
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