That's just arguing semantics. It still has the same playing board and the same rules, so technically it's still the game Diplomacy, with a part of it removed. Saying what is and isn't the point of Diplomacy is rather odd - do you know better than the hundreds of people who regularly play gunboats? Is it important that the game never changes from its original state?

There is still Diplomacy involved, but no talking. Supports and other things are important communication tools. as are pauses, cancels and draws

It's the purest form of diplomacy

I was sorta guessing the gunboat fans would start an argument. Well done.

Congrats

"I was sorta guessing the gunboat fans would start an argument. Well done. "

This made me laugh.

It's not semantics, nor is it a different game. It's a more difficult game. Lots of reading in between the lines, knowing the balance of power, recognizing momentum, knowing your stalemates, etc.

I joined my first gunboat last week.

I have to try a gunboat soon. Is it easier or more difficult than regular Diplomacy, or is it just different.

if you define ease as time spent, i say easier. communication takes time. on the other hand if you define ease as the absence of chaos, then i'd say maybe a bit harder. without allies things can be even more chaotic and unpredictable, in my opinion.

I love how we reliably have a thread like this once a month or so. Please, tell us all your entirely original thoughts regarding gunboat Diplomacy. Oh, it takes the "Diplomacy" out of the game? My, this had never occurred to myself or anyone else here. Thank you for bringing this most grievous error to our attention.

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/15667870.jpg

Eden + 1,000,000

Three things you can count on every month:
1. Gunboat = not diplomacy
2. Vdip > Webdip
3. TC's nonsensical rants

TC's only monthly now?

Also, cheating accusations and ENJOY TO LIVE GAME GO GO GO!

Gunboat is diplomacy without diplomacy?
http://bit.ly/wJADKT

I personally think that the hardest Diplomacy of all is public-press only. You can't lie without serious consequences all over the board.

In the case of Gunboat, what tends to happen is the game becomes less balanced. Austria is usually the center of a bukkake party as he can't afford to leave both Trieste and Galicia undefended. Consequently, Turkey usually gets Greece in 1901. Similar, although less pronounced, statements could be made about Germany in the north.

Gunboat games tend to favor the corner powers who have fewer neighbors and are thus more tactical than trust-based and their moves are often relatively easy to predict (hello Turkey!). Central powers need a great deal of discussion and hearsay to perform well, and the one Power most in need of chat is obviously Austria.

I disagree, cteno4.
Austria can perform very well in gunboat given/assuming that Italy is not incompetent or trying out some new variations. Austria should not worry about Trieste in 1901. Leave it and move to Alb to move to Gre with support. Vie to Gal.

I disagree cteno4. Austira is a pretty good power to play in gunboat. The southern hedegehog is a one good opening, but there are a lot of other options. I find that its more likely that Austria gets Greece than Turkey.

The worst gunboat power is definitely Russia. I remember during the original gunboat tourney, someone ran some stats and Russia performed by far the worst.

what is vdip is vdip better?

I happen to be an expert on the proper use of Austria in gunboats

I always play the Southern Hedgehog, then go to Galicia, Bulgaria and Albania in A01 if Italy signaled peace. You get 1 build (A Bud) in A01, but then you've probably isolated the Turkish army in Greece, meaning you will certainly get Greece in S02, and it's not unlikely that, if you manage to force Galicia in S02, that you can get Rumania and Bulgaria in A02.

I always play the Southern Hedgehog, too. Obviously the problem with Southern Hedgehog is that you have to be totally fine with just one build - Serbia. Of course, if you're playing against a totally incompetent Russia you'll have shots at Warsaw and Rumania, too.

Why wouldn't you be, though? Russia can never get Galicia unless you let him, you can split the Turkish armies to ensure they never get a shot at Serbia... of course Italy can still muck things up, but the whole idea is that you deter Italy with the initial opening and he cuts his losses.

Unless you're up against a gunboat douche like me who normally opens as Italy with a typical lepanto setup in S01, then follows it up with a move to Trieste along with convoy to Tunis.

You can be sure that Austria will never have a unit in Trieste in A01 unless they decided on trying to take Venice in 01.

What is Lepanto, and what is Hedgehog?

The Lepanto is when Italy and (usually Austria) goes after Turkey.

Italy moves:
Naples - Ionian
Rome - Naples

Then Italy conveys it's army over to Turkey, before or after taking Tunis (usually before to beat the Turkish player)

If I recall correctly, that is. I've never really studied Italian strategies.

1. Italy has to take Tunis to convoy to Turkey; You need two fleets to get there from Italy, and Italy starts with one.
2. Rome should move to Apulia --not Naples -- to defend Venice if necessary. Otherwise it can convoy to Tunis with no problem.

Hey, I just thought of a sick A-I Lepanto continuation.

PE - That's all you're going to say?

I'm contemplating a separate topic for it.