Love it when guys mock, but then don't have stones to actually enter the discussion. No, far easier to just duck in, get your jab in, and then run away.

Or when they simply off doing something else because they're not here all of the time? C'mon, it must be a joke. The US is neither a police state nor in danger of becoming one any time soon. Nor is the US government made up entirely of the corrupt and self serving. The people of the US are not complete idiots and tend to vote for people with competence and integrity.

You're naive Octavious. You're obviously not paying attention. You're asleep. WAKE UP!

I think Al Swearingen has made the most sensible contribution in advocating Education.

I think MichiganMan is wrong --- he seems to be saying that since there are no perfect governments ( or perfect systems of government ) then we should simply give up on having any government
It's similar with systems of Justice -- I accept that if you have a system of Justice that values the "presumption of innocence" et al then there will always be examples where a criminal evades conviction because the system is more concerned about NOT CONVICTING INNOCENT PERSONS
So my choice is I would rather live under a system of Justice that makes prosecution reasonably dificult, rather than one that makes prosecution easy.
A lot of blood was shed over many years to get a Justice system that values presumption of innocence, trial by jury, et al -- don't let fearmongers and the simplistic "Law and Order" propoganda brigade take way your / our Civil Liberties

you want genuine security -- invest in Education, and intervene in the "free market Capitalist system" in order to "share the wealth" by giving all citizens the opportunities to share in the wealth via Education

I remind you of the "Lesson of the French Revolution", that is when 2 % of a Nations population control 98 % of that Nation's wealth and opress the remaining 98 % of the population, then the opressed 98% who have the 2 % of the Nation's wealth rise up in bloody Revolution and slaughter as many of the super wealthy 2 % as they possibly can.

Oh -- in closing -- Brilliant win by Aussie Marcose Ambrose in the NASCAR at Watkins Glen. I just love the way your race callers pronounce his name -- we clip or shorten vowel sounds ( too many flies here -- so if you keep your mouth open too long,
in they swarm -- in some places you have to be able to talk through clenched teeth ) your chappies lenghten the "cose" & "rose" in Marcose & Ambrose,
it's so cute the way they say it !!!

I never said that I think we should "give up on any government." Please don't put words in my mouth. I ascribe to the notion that Jefferson ascribed to: "When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."

Do you think that the United States government fears the People, or do you think the People fear the United States government?

I believe in the value of education, Major. But, as long as that education isn't a propaganda-filled stream of drivel designed around conformity. The US education system, at one time, was the envy of the world. We produced knowledgeable people who could knew their rights, and were willing to fight for them. Now we teach them to pass tests so the schools can keep sucking on the federal tit.

"The US is neither a police state nor in danger of becoming one any time soon. Nor is the US government made up entirely of the corrupt and self serving. The people of the US are not complete idiots and tend to vote for people with competence and integrity."

Man, if the view is that much rosier on the other side of the pond, make some room for me!

"The US is neither a police state nor in danger of becoming one any time soon. Nor is the US government made up entirely of the corrupt and self serving. The people of the US are not complete idiots and tend to vote for people with competence and integrity."

And you come to these conclusions how? Just because you say that the US isn't a police state doesn't make it true. The evidence is OVERWHELMINGLY convincing that we're heading in that direction like a runaway freight train, yet there are always people who refuse to see it, and mock others that do.

As far as voting and the American People go, you're right, we're not idiots. But, our political system, our entire government in fact, has been taken over, and we don't choose anyone -- it's a complete dog-and-pony show meant to keep us believing we're free.