Maybe he can get the camp chaplain to have a little chat with him, put him back on the straight and narrow, he can still enter the kingdom of heaven if he repents. By all accounts heaven is jam-packed with murderers that said sorry.
You know what they say, 'What goes on tour, stays on tour'

I'm not defending his actions, but this is certainly a less outrageous story than when Afghans killed American soldiers because a book was accidentally burned.

He'll have a court-martial and probably go to prison. The medieval nutjob murderers who we're ostensibly defending will be hailed as heroes. Withdrawal from that godforsaken place can't come soon enough.

killing 17 unarmed men women and children is less outrageous than 2 uniformed members of the army?

Are you out of your fucking mind?

Hand him over to the Afghans and let them stone him to death.

God knows soldiers go through stress and situations that none of us could ever imagine, but he left the base and killed 17 defenseless people in a sovereign country in their own homes while they were sleeping. This includes I believe 9 children.

And the proponent of the death penalty up there wants to make an exception.

Sickening.

"Hand him over to the Afghans and let them stone him to death."

How can you say that? He'll get his punishment through a court-martial, which actually is much better at punishing guilty people than civilian courts. The idea of handing him over to these barbarians to be stoned to death is ridiculous. No one deserves to be stoned to death by a mob.

And I won't back down from this. Afghan soldiers killing American soldiers because some other American soldiers burned a book on accident is a more outrageous story than this scumbag's killing spree. Not on utilitarian grounds, obviously, but as a clear example of how hopelessly backward much of the population of Afghanistan is. We're wasting our time, treasure, and the lives of our military members now that bin Laden's dead and al Qaeda proper is in no position to launch spectacular attacks. If these people are gonna act like such savages then let's get out before another soldier dies or another one goes nuts and kills people, worsening the problem.

Why are they barbarians, expand on this in my my thread

Santa +10 if I could. Things like this make me deeply ashamed to be an American. If the Haditha marines are any indication, his case will weave through the military "justice" system and when he finally is tried a few years from now, they'll find some excuse to acquit him - maybe send him to a 'hospital' for 'treatment' of his 'disease'. I say let the Afghans have him, but of course that will never happen.

And just remember - all these people who are serving overseas learning how to get away with murder and torture are being hired as police officers in the good 'ole USA, to be turned loose on the idiot flag-wavers who "support the troops" no matter how many women and children they execute overseas. This country is truly sick; my greatest fear is that God is just.

Killing people because a book was burned makes you a barbarian, no matter what it is. I wouldn't even dream of doing that if someone burned a Bible (especially unintentionally) and would condemn anyone who did.

Americans don't need to keep dying to drag an entire people from the tenth century to the nineteenth, if we're lucky. There's no direct threat to us now, leave them to be lunatics by themselves.

Invictus, that belongs in my new thread...

"How can you say that?"

How can you NOT say that? If one of those Afghan traitors were caught instead of killed would you support Afghanistan putting them on trial? NO. You would demand he be shipped to Guantanamo. Meanwhile you have a soldier, not in the line of duty, on his own cognizance, walking OUT of a base, and killing Afgans in a sovereign country. Why don't the Afghans get to try him? Because they are Browner than us? You are such a complete hypocrite.

"The idea of handing him over to these barbarians to be stoned to death is ridiculous. "

So the 17 Men women and children who were killed in their sleep are barbarians and the one who did it deserves to spend his life getting 3 square meals a day. I'm starting to think the barbarian might be writing in this thead at the moment

"And I won't back down from this."

Oh I'm sure you won't, funny thing about hypocrisy is that the hypocrite doesn't see it. The funny thing about bigotry is that the bigot is only being "realistic".

"Not on utilitarian grounds, obviously, but as a clear example of how hopelessly backward much of the population of Afghanistan is"

Yes, 2 of their soldiers went apeshit and killed 3 of our soldiers (sorry if the numbers are off). Meanwhile one of our soldiers when apeshit and killed 17 civilians. My count is that they have one more barbarian than we do. Quite the statistical masterpiece dipshit.

"I'm not defending his actions, but this is certainly a less outrageous story than when Afghans killed American soldiers because a book was accidentally burned."

TROLL!!!

books may get burned sometimes, but killing children with automatic weapons doesn't really compare to killing soldier who have 'legally' invaded your country.

I can't make my position clearer. If you refuse to see it (no need to agree) then too bad.

What part didn't I see? Please show me the nuance in your "An entire population are barbarians, therefor the cold-blooded murder of 17 civilians is more outrageous than the cold blooded murder of 3 soldiers," argument.

We see your point Invictus, it's just that it's so ridiculous and unable to stand on its own that we want to give you every chance to add some depth to it before we start laughing.

@YJ: how barbaric of you...

That isn't my argument. Killings (and injuries and mass protests) because a book was burned accidentally is more outrageous than an probably insane person's rampage. Keep in mind, this killing was isolated in that one guy. The killings of the Americans by Afghan soldiers has the backing of a large segment of the population. If the entire US military base emptied out and went out killing with abandon you'd have a point.

I mean, i already said it isn't worse on utilitarian grounds. Of course a bigger amount of people dying is worse than a smaller. But the Koran incident, in the context of ten years of war to at least bring stability to the damn country, is more outrageous if you look at the bigger picture. Perhaps you disagree. Fine. But don't put words in my mouth.

Stoning isn't the proper way to handle this.

And the afghan killings were isolated to 2 guys. What is your point. How else are you going to justify your racism, hypocrisy and jingoism?

Invictus, if you believe our government's bullshit PR that Afghans went crazy because Qu'rans were burned - and not because we're occupying their country, bombing their houses, and killing their people - then you are truly a gullible kool-aid drinking fool.

I wonder how I'm racist when I've said nothing about race (at the very most you could read in a anti-Muslim bias), a hypocrite when I said their actions would be wrong even if the book had been a Bible, and a jingoist when I'd like all the troops out by the end of the day.

Once again, go ahead and disagree, but don't put words in my mouth.

So you agree that Afghans should try any Afghan Soldiers who kill American soldiers right?

If an afghan soldier was in the United States on training and walked into homes and killed 9 American Children you would agree those Afghans should be tried under Afghan Military law

"I thought I told you to fuck off because I am right"-Invictus

You really don't see a problem with a foreign soldier walking out of his base, killing 17 people and escaping the trial in the country? Would you be OK with a NATO soldier walking out of a base during a joint training on the US soil (say, Texas), killing 17 Americans and be tried in his home country where the death sentence is forbidden? You really don't see how deeply insulting it is when the soldiers escape the laws of the country by virtue of being soldiers even though they commit time in their free time? What else than the justified sense of being treaded upon can such behaviour accomplish? "Oops, we killed more of your people, don't worry, we'll handle that little rascal." Being in a country implies following its legal code even though it's barbaric (yes, death sentence of any kind is barbaric for me), otherwise it quite obviously fuels the hatred towards priviledged Westerners.

For fuck's sake, Invictus...

It goes both ways, by the way. Few years ago, we tried a prince from Qatar in the Czech Republic for intercourse with several underaged girls. The evidence was quite strong but our brilliant Minister of Justice allowed him to be put to trial in Qatar to avoid diplomatic tantrum from them (or to get some cash, who knows). Of course he was set free the moment the plane landed in Doha. No, our nation wasn't happy. Blatant misusing of diplomatic immunity is the same thing as well. Once a foreigner gets lower sentence by circumventing the local law, the locals will never be happy and rightly so. It's as if each country tried to "protect" its citizens even though they were obviously guilty.

Of course there are exceptions. One might be jailed for political reasons and a country must strive to bring him back home for instance. But if a blatant crime was commited...

I'm going to suggest something in between the two extremes put forth so far.

The soldier clearly killed the civilians, whether or not he was under mental duress or not is the only matter still up for debate. The appropriate action, although i doubt there is any precedent for this, would be to try him in a military court, with a military tribunal, military prosecution and military defendant, but the legal code he is to be charged under would be the Afghani one, (assuming they have a coherent legal system, which I rather doubt but am not really informed on).

Upon conviction, which I do not doubt would be the result in a fair court, he should receive the punishment dictated by the Afghan law, death. However we execute him, with lethal injection.

While obviously not everyone would be pleased I think it's enough of a compromise to to appease the majority of people, as well as satisfy Justice.