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stratagos (3269 D(S))
03 Nov 11 UTC
Chainsaw Diplomacy Public Press
Any of you idiots capable of processing the simple concept? Details inside..
85 replies
Open
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
03 Nov 11 UTC
Minor Car Trouble
So, I've been having a little trouble with my car and I'm trying to fix it myself without going to a shop. So far, my attempts haven't been successful and my internet searches have been less than helpful. I thought someone here may be able to give me some tips. Details inside.

abgemacht (1076 D(G))
03 Nov 11 UTC
Make/Model: 2004 Mercury Sable (Ford Taurus)
Symptoms: Controls for power windows will intermittently stop working. About 6 months ago, it happened for the first time and has been occurring more frequently until now I can barely use them.
All window controls on all doors will stop working at the same time and will all come back on at the same time. When they work/don't work seems to be random.
Fixes: My fist thought was a fuse, so I replaced the 30A Fuse for "One-Touch Delayed Accessories". This didn't solve the problem. Perhaps there is more than one fuse for the windows, but if there is, it's not clearly labelled in the fuse diagram I have.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Geofram (130 D(B))
03 Nov 11 UTC
There's also a relay in the hood fuse box you should check, but it sounds like a loose/open connection.
When they aren't working, do you hear a clicking sound?
If no, put the key in and on (but not the engine) and turn on your overhead lights. Try the controls again, does the light dim?
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
03 Nov 11 UTC
OK, I'll take a look for the relay.

The only clicking noise I hear is the mechanical clicking of the button being pressed.

I'll try the light thing tonight when it's dark.
Draugnar (0 DX)
03 Nov 11 UTC
Geofram went where I was about to send you. It does sound like a relay going out.
Yellowjacket (835 D(B))
03 Nov 11 UTC
OK, so what you do is walk to the front of your car, and look for the large blue oval with white cursive text. There is your problem.
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
03 Nov 11 UTC
Cute, Yellowjacket, but I ride on the wings of Mercury : )
Draugnar (0 DX)
03 Nov 11 UTC
Best way to fix it... Drive over a river and "accidently" lose control, jumping out just before it crashes through the barrier. Insurance will buy you a new one then.

Not that I'm advocating insurance fraud, mind you.
semck83 (229 D(B))
03 Nov 11 UTC
Yeah, the substantial insurance increase for the next five years definitely won't cost as much as a new relay.
Draugnar (0 DX)
03 Nov 11 UTC
Claim someone cut you off and get it declared no fault or uninsured/underinsured driver (hit skip) and give a description with no plates and of a very common car in a very common color (silver Camry for instance).
It wont be a blown fuse - they work or they don't. It might be a bad relay connection and they're usually sealed units, but with clear plastic cases - if you can find the one responsible (it'll have burnt contacts, the others wont) see if you can get a replacement on-line or from a breakers yard.

It certainly sounds like a dirty connection though. The problem is going to be locating it. Does everything else electrical work properly?

If you turn on the rear screen heater(*) do the windows work better? If so a dirty contact looks even more likely.

Is there a single Earth-return circuit to the battery for the car's electrical "services"? If so, try disconnecting and cleaning that... carefully.

Are the contacts around the fuses dirty? If so <carefully> clean them with something (sand paper if it looks like carbon deposits, alcohol for oily muck). I did say "carefully" didn't I?

There will probably be a second fuse box inside the car (look under/around the steering wheel). Do any of the contacts in there look dodgy compared to the rest?

Remove/clean/refit every single fuse one at a time. When I worked on aircraft <mumble> years ago the majority of electrical faults were dirt in the contacts (especially when pax could still smoke). Removing and refitting a box, which cleaned the contacts, fixed more problems than anything else.

*) Increased current flow will overcome the resistant caused by the dirt effectively shorting it out. After that the extra current for the window motors gets a free ride.
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
03 Nov 11 UTC
Yeah, I realize it wouldn't be a blown fuse, but I thought a contact may have been flaky or dirty on the old one.

It's just getting dark here, so I'm going to try a few of the things you and Geo suggested.

The fuse box under the steering wheel is in a really obnoxious place, but from what I can tell, the fuses seem clean.

Every other electrical system seems to be working without a problem.

All of my relays are opaque, so I have no idea if the contacts are burnt. Can I replace relays just like fuses?
DustyWells (513 D)
03 Nov 11 UTC
I'd recommend checking the doir wiring harnesses. The flexing can sometimes cause cracking of the wiring insulation.
krellin (80 DX)
04 Nov 11 UTC
The relay suggestions sounds very reasonable. It is also very, very likely related to teh "master switch"....i.e. the driver's windwo switch (as opposed to the passenger door switch) given your described symptoms. It could be an old/worn connection within the switch itself, meaning you need to replace the master door switch. If you find that the function stops ONLY with operation of the driver's door witch, but still works with passenger door switch, this would verify a master door switch problem.

As for the random nature of the problem, it is probably related to thermal breakdown of some component. Does it only happen after the car has been running for X amount of time? That would indicate thermal breakdown of something....which, again, could easily be the relay ot the master switch.

If all else fails, call "Car Talk" on NPR this Saturday so we can all here the might Abge on the radio!!!!
2ndWhiteLine (2606 D(B))
04 Nov 11 UTC
If you call Car Talk, submit a Diplomacy question as a Puzzler!
SacredDigits (102 D)
04 Nov 11 UTC
This is a common problem in the Sable/Taurus. I ended up disconnecting my passenger side power windows because I was sick of dealing with it. I believe most often it was the problem that Dusty is talking about (I have a friend that basically solves any mechanical issue I have for the cost of parts that he gets a huge discount on plus one case of beer, and I usually follow what he's saying, but I can't always recall it months and years later).
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
04 Nov 11 UTC
Some updates:

I tried what Geo suggested. Trying to open my windows does not cause my cabin lights to dim.

I tried what Speaker suggested. Turned on my rear defroster (or anything else) did not cause my windows to work any better.

Another symptom I noticed:

Every power lock and power window light up on my doors. However, when I try to use the windows, all of the window buttons and the driver side lock button will flash and occasionally stay off. My power locks always work, even if the light is off.

@SD

Yes, from reading forums, I've heard this is very common with Tauruses; unfortunately, I've yet to read a good solution.

@krellin

The amount of time I've been running the car seems to have no affect on the windows.

@Dusty

I'll look at that. But, do you think faulty wires on the driver's door would cause all of the buttons not to work?
fortknox (2059 D)
04 Nov 11 UTC
Check the wires from the connection box to the doors. There's an issue somewhere along there. Getting access to the wiring will be your hardest issue...
Draugnar (0 DX)
04 Nov 11 UTC
@abge - The wiring in older cars commonly connects everything on a given fuse in a serial fashion, so a short or open in one door could affect everything in all the other doors.
Diplomat33 (243 D(B))
04 Nov 11 UTC
The Taurus is a really good car.
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
04 Nov 11 UTC
@D33

Thanks for another uninformed post.

I don't delude myself about the quality of Ford cars (especially in the 90's-00's).

I bought the sable because:
1) Used Ford cars don't hold value, so it was pretty cheap
2) It was a Mercury, which offers some luxury at a good value
3) It was a station wagon. I really don't like crossovers and nice looking wagons are few and far between.

With that being said, most of the interior is super glued together. Most of the big things are fine, but at 100k miles, I'm not at all surprised I'm having minor issues like this.
Draugnar (0 DX)
04 Nov 11 UTC
100K and that's your issue? Sounds like you got a dmaned good used Taurus. The power windows on my old Cougar XR7 shorted and the switch caught fire while I was driving at only about 80K. And they did this with the window down and rain on the way. :-)

Oh, and that was the *best* FoMoCo POS I ever had. We won't talk about the Explorer whose 4WD failed at only 85K while I still owed money on that POS. I'll stick to Jeeps for SUVs and GM, BMW, MB, and Dodge for cars (although Hyundais are pretty damn good in both categories over all: I've had one of each so far).

The only thing FoMoCo does close to "right" is large pickup trucks and I'd still take a GMC or Dodge RAM/Powerwagon over them.
2ndWhiteLine (2606 D(B))
04 Nov 11 UTC
100K? Pfffff...your Mercury is still brand new.
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
04 Nov 11 UTC
@Draug

As I said, I'm not upset about the wiring issue; I expected it.

I also need major work on the brakes a year or so ago. Other than that, it's been pretty good.

I'm not saying it's a *bad* car, I'm just not one of those people who runs around praising Jesus for giving me a Ford.
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
04 Nov 11 UTC
Before this, I had a Mercury Villager from my parents, which I loved.

It made it to 130k, but by then the interior was in rough shape. And by interior, I mean the interior was now part of the exterior. It was also about do for serious mechanical work, so it made no sense to keep it.
Draugnar (0 DX)
04 Nov 11 UTC
LOL! Sounds like you have had a decent car all things considered. I have a spare Jeep Liberty (07, the older body style) for sale for $15K if you are interested in upgrading. It's got heated power leather seats, a sun roof, 6 disk in dash changer with satellite radio, chrome trim and wheels, and all the toys including 4x full time, 4x part time, and 4x low as well as the normal 2x mode. It's the limited edition with all the toys. The wife has decided she wants to downsize to something smaller like a Suzuki SX4 with AWD now that we aren't in the country any more.
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
04 Nov 11 UTC
Yes, perhaps I came off as dissatisfied with my car. That's not at all true. I've been very happy with it. I guess I just overreacted to another one of D33's stupid comments.

I do love Jeeps. My parents bought an '02 Grand Cherokee from my Grandmother a while ago. They're fun to drive, but it only as 4 cylinders, so it's slow as molasses.
Draugnar (0 DX)
04 Nov 11 UTC
And when I say spare Liberty, I have another that is *my* car. 08 (newer body) white with a more durable offroad dirve train (although not equiped with full time 4x4) and skid plates. By next spring it will be fully outfitted with an offroader roof rack with lights and spare fuel and water canisters, and the spare tire moved from underneath to the rack as well as a front brushguiard and winch and rear bumper guard, stone guards on the rear tail lights, and a class 3 hitch for boat/camper towing.
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
04 Nov 11 UTC
And, thanks for the offer, but I plan on holding on to my Sable for some time. I like to run my cars into the ground and I think (hope) this one can last me until I'm out of academia (1-5 years).
Draugnar (0 DX)
04 Nov 11 UTC
Yeah, the Liberty and Grand Cherokee all come with a minimum 3.7 liter 215 HP V6 since about '04. I used to have an '95 GC Laredo, but totalled it going through a split-rail ranch fence during an ice strom. One of the posts kicked up and took out the engine, cooling system, and front differential. Repairs would have been about 80% of the blue book on the car, so insurance totalled it. I was bummed.
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
04 Nov 11 UTC
And it's not like I have $15k lying around for something as fun as a Jeep : )
Draugnar (0 DX)
04 Nov 11 UTC
Should have been a '05 GC Laredo. Small typo there.
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
04 Nov 11 UTC
Yeah, it's good they put a real engine in it.

My sable has a V6 and that thing can fly when I'm the only one in it. I've almost had a number of serious crashes in my parents' Jeep because I push down on the pedal and that thing just doesn't want to move.
Draugnar (0 DX)
04 Nov 11 UTC
LOL! I forgot you were in academia. Once you get into the real work force and put the piece of paper to use, you'll find 15K is pretty cheap for a quality car.

I'm trying to get her to go with a Mercedes CLK350 I saw the other day for under $20K. I told her I'd cover the difference between her car and the Benz, but she says even the 350 is too big for her taste.

This is what she wants:
http://reviews.carreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/2010_suzuki_sx4_02_600x4001.jpg

This is the car I wanted to buy her (this exact one):
http://www.carmax.com/enus/view-car/default.html?AVi=1&id=7555999&D=10&ASTc=mercedes&zip=45014&pD=0&pI=0&pT=400&pC=200&pB=0&No=0&Ep=homepage:homepage&Rp=R&PP=20&sV=List&CD=203+662+14+966+240+190+398+9&Q=67fbc85a-b697-4058-a692-d4da309283a3
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
04 Nov 11 UTC
Well, the way it's looking now, I may never leave academia, but we'll see.

That's a nice Mercedes, but I couldn't handle only having 2 doors. Impractical and I think they look weird (unless it's on a corvette, mustang, or other such car).

I really don't know anything about Suzuki, but it at least doesn't look as small as those tiny deathtrap-cars Honda and Toyota are making.
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
04 Nov 11 UTC
Also, what's with that middle seat (pic 24,26)? Shouldn't there be a cushion there instead of a hole?
DustyWells (513 D)
04 Nov 11 UTC
@abge - If there is a child safety switch on the driver door then I'd guess that there is a good chance that all of the circuits go through the driver's door. I'm not a Taurus mechanic though but I did have to have the door wiring harness replaced on one of my vehicles. I think you are about to become very good friends with Mr Ohmmeter. Good luck!
Draugnar (0 DX)
04 Nov 11 UTC
@abge - It's not a seat. I don't know all the details, but the car is consider to seat 4, not 5.
fortknox (2059 D)
04 Nov 11 UTC
holy fuck, draug... how is that mercedes under $20k? I'd totally steal it out from under you if I wasn't really happy with my accord (not to mention the lack of funds due to the divorce).
fortknox (2059 D)
04 Nov 11 UTC
@DustyWells: "I think you are about to become very good friends with Mr Ohmmeter."

Hopefully he just becomes a friend of Mr. Multimeter (sorry, CompEng degree... everything was multimeter... waste to just get a specialized meter when you can get them all in one).
Draugnar (0 DX)
04 Nov 11 UTC
@FK - Benz's don't retain their value unless they are ultr-high end like the SL convertibles, and this one has like 80K or something on it. If my own Liberty were paid for, I'd take 3 or 4 grand over and buy it for myself. But I owe too much on the 08 Liberty to have a second 15K car loan and the wife wants what she wants when it comes to trading/selling the clear titled 07 Liberty.
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
04 Nov 11 UTC
Actually, I have a piece of paper that says I'm an Electrical Engineer, so, in theory, I'm already pretty close to Mr. Multimeter.
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
04 Nov 11 UTC
Alright, I've found the problem!

When the driver door is open, all buttons work. When closed, no buttons work. So, there must be a bad wire in the driver door harness that's either flaky or grounding when closed.

I tried to get into the wire harness, but couldn't get it open. I'll work on it some more, but at least I know that all I have to do is open my door to use the windows.
fortknox (2059 D)
04 Nov 11 UTC
No no no... the answer is to open the door anytime you need to use the buttons. It's the perfect lazyman's answer!
Draugnar (0 DX)
04 Nov 11 UTC
Now, if you had a Jeep Wrangler with manual locks and windows and removable doors, this wouldn't be a problem...
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
04 Nov 11 UTC
@FK

You joke, but that's exactly what I plan on doing. I took a better look at the wiring harness and there's no way I'm getting into that thing.
DustyWells (513 D)
05 Nov 11 UTC
Excellent work! Who needs a multi-meter when you have a rabbit's foot ;-). Good luck with the car.
Draugnar (0 DX)
06 Nov 11 UTC
@abgemacht - It may be the light switch in the door causing the problem. If you just bypass it, then the windows may work when the door is closed. Of course, you'll need to rig a switch to the interior lights so you can turn them off when the doors are closed.
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
06 Nov 11 UTC
@Draug

I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying the door-light wires are crossing with the power-window wires?
Draugnar (0 DX)
06 Nov 11 UTC
I'm saying they could be on the same circuit...
Draugnar (0 DX)
06 Nov 11 UTC
The opening of the door makes the connection for the dome light which, as a switched accessory, is probably on the same circuit, so keeping that circuit complete might fix the problem. Then you just pull the dome light and you are good to go. the only real issue might be if the "key in ignition" chime keeps going, it would annoy you something fierce.


50 replies
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
02 Nov 11 UTC
The Top 10 Most Important Battles of All-Time
Pretty self-explanatory...if you want to try and rank your picks, bonus points.
I WILL give one caveat--all of my picks ARE slanted towards the West, that's just my bias...don't know enough Eastern Theatre battles to really include many, and those that do make my list are because the West drove back the East...so you can include Eastern battles--please do!--but I don't known them, so can't include them. Let the War of the Words begin! :)
193 replies
Open
President Eden (2750 D)
06 Nov 11 UTC
WHOOOOOOOOO YEAAAAAAAAAAH
You only wish your team won the most epic college football game of all time.
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ChadDC (615 D)
06 Nov 11 UTC
Political Propaganda Help!
Hey guys and gals out there! My name is Chad, and I am making a request to all you out there who are interested: Want to help me run for "President?"
6 replies
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Ges (292 D)
06 Nov 11 UTC
12-hr Classic WTA Gunboat, 10 pt. buy-in
gameID=71558

Two players needed in a day.
0 replies
Open
trip (696 D(B))
05 Nov 11 UTC
Chew on this...
Tettleton's Chew, utilize this thread by posting new topics of discussion here and only here.
11 replies
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Lando Calrissian (100 D(S))
04 Nov 11 UTC
One thousand
gameID=71433
PM me for password.
2 replies
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Tettleton's Chew (0 DX)
13 Oct 11 UTC
George Will is priceless
George Will is rarely matched as a political commentator. His column on the Occupy Wall Street bunch is unforgettable.
20 replies
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Tettleton's Chew (0 DX)
12 Oct 11 UTC
Positive Rights Foolishness
Many foolish individuals in these forums post positive rights ideology.
What a worthless, destructive point of view.
Look at what it has done to Europe since the end of WWII.
God help us save American from this lunacy.
64 replies
Open
Tettleton's Chew (0 DX)
03 Nov 11 UTC
Slavoj Zizek on Charlie Rose
One of the best philosophers around. If you didn't catch the Charlie Rose episode with Slavoj then treat yourself,
http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/11966#
7 replies
Open
Tiamat (0 DX)
04 Nov 11 UTC
Fresh Meat
Hey everybody. I just came across this site when looking for diplomacy tactics...I have to say it might definitely be worth my time. Since I'm a new guy at this site, how do I start playing a game with other people?
13 replies
Open
fulhamish (4134 D)
06 Nov 11 UTC
Darmstadtium (Ds), roentgenium (Rg) and copernicium (Cn)
I see that we have three new elements to add to the Periodic Table.
I just wonder is it really appropriate to call these fleetingly present nuclear bodies elemental?
10 replies
Open
SpeakerToAliens (147 D(S))
05 Nov 11 UTC
Clear Air Turbulence
gameID=71500. No in-game messaging, Anonymous players, Winner-takes-all, 30 D buy-in.
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Marti the Bruce (100 D)
06 Nov 11 UTC
Sydney FC
I know most here are not Australian, nor football supporters, but the Sky Blues had a most fantastic and heroic victory tonight over Gold Coast United. 3-2 at the death. Karol Kisel scores a penalty at 90+3mins! Brilliant!
Discuss.....lol
0 replies
Open
Draugnar (0 DX)
01 Nov 11 UTC
ACORN's at it again...
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/10/26/exclusive-acorn-playing-behind-scenes-role-in-occupy-movement/?intcmp=obinsite

Doesn't surprise me one bit...
120 replies
Open
AverageWhiteBoy (314 D)
04 Nov 11 UTC
Seven best fictional characters to play Diplomacy together
Who knows, maybe this'll become a tournament or something.
57 replies
Open
President Eden (2750 D)
05 Nov 11 UTC
Hey guys, let's be nicer to newer gunboaters.
I've been going through and updating my stats on my profile page so I can show my record in full, partial and no press (and update messages/game), and so I got to see how well I played in gunboat to start. Guess what I found?
15 replies
Open
Tettleton's Chew (0 DX)
02 Nov 11 UTC
The Failure of European Socialism
We are living in historic times. Right before our eyes the failed model of European socialism is collapsing. The only question is what will exist in its ruins? The senseless youth violence in England, and the self-pitying protests of you Frenchmen do not bode well for the continents decaying culture.
43 replies
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dubjamaica (0 DX)
04 Nov 11 UTC
free booze
gameID=71510 join if you want free booze
6 replies
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Diplomat33 (243 D(B))
04 Nov 11 UTC
Google Easter Egg- Do a barrel roll
What fun. I love easter eggs. Type in do a barrel roll n google and it will. Also Z or R twice works as a tribute to starfox.
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Tettleton's Chew (0 DX)
11 Oct 11 UTC
The Importance of Enrtrepreneurship
This is something that socialists, marxists, and statists do not comprehend, the importance of entrepreneurship to economic growth.
In fact entrepreneurship is the only advantage the United States has on the rest of the world.
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GinoKay (249 D)
04 Nov 11 UTC
11-SC Argentina replacement needed
1 reply
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martinck1 (4464 D(S))
03 Nov 11 UTC
The 47% Game
See below
10 replies
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yujufrazer (100 D)
04 Nov 11 UTC
Help
http://webdiplomacy.net/map.php?gameID=71205&turn=5&mapType=large

K here is our map. my question is, if i move my boat from the english channel to the northsea with support from norwegian sea. but he moves his boat from north sea to BEL, with support from Hol, would my move stop his move or at least cut support?
5 replies
Open
Tettleton's Chew (0 DX)
02 Nov 11 UTC
Herman Cain & Bill Clinton
How can a decade old accusation of sexual harassment against Herman Cain even be an issue in American politics after all the liberals dismissed Bill Clinton's adultery with a member of the staff in the White House as being completely irrelevant to his job as president.
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Tettleton's Chew (0 DX)
10 Oct 11 UTC
How the World Really Works II
Since so many don't understand how the world around them works this thread is crucial.
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Tettleton's Chew (0 DX)
02 Oct 11 UTC
Lower Taxes=More Revenue
The 28% tax on long-term capital gains brought in only $36.9 billion a year from 1987 to 1997, according to the Treasury Department, while the 15% tax brought in $96.8 billion a year from 2004 to 2007.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904194604576583151431651920.html
65 replies
Open
DonXavier (1341 D)
04 Nov 11 UTC
1 more for 200 point buy in
Ancient Med
1 more player
200 point buy in
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=71261
0 replies
Open
Tru Ninja (1016 D(S))
03 Nov 11 UTC
Let's Assume
You're France in S01 and Italy moves to Piedmont while Marseilles moved to Spain and Paris to Picardy along with Brest-MAO. Barring any real diplomacy that has gone on, are you more likely to return to Marseilles in the fall assuming Italy will attack it, or list a hold order assuming a bluff?
6 replies
Open
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