Abolish the NSA but keep Third Echelon. We need certified badasses like Sam Fisher.

@orathaic - It still exists.www.kkk.com And they still regularly hold rallies in big cities.

Have to love how everything only ever is a problem when it's done to US citizens. Damn the rest of us, I suppose?

I'm not a US citizen, and I'm one of the ones demanding the NSA gets abolished

Let's abolish the IRS while we're at it.

Let's abolish the United States while we're at it.

"Damn the rest of us, I suppose?"

Does your country not engage in espionage? What global responsibilities does it have?

@ bo_sox

No, keep the United States, but not the IRS. We functioned just fine for over 123 years without it. We also had roads, bridges, schools, healthcare, and a combat-effective military during that time.

Let's repeal the Seventeenth Amendment while we're at it.

*Every* industrialized and most developing countries engage in espionage. Anyone who claims otherwise is a fool or at the least, naive.

I have no problem with the NSA as long as they're not violating the rights of Americans.

Seriously gun, why don't you like electing senators?

I'm guessing because it dilutes the power of state governments.

He lives! Welcome back, Putin.

Everyone has their panties in a wad about the NSA but no one gives a shit about the fact that Canada and UK governments do far more to spy on their own citizens, and fuck knows what the russians are doing.

@GunF... don't you realize that I'm mocking you? I've done it twice in this thread alone now.

@Putin... welcome back. How's North Korea?

Direct election of Senators does dilute the power of state governments. The actual debate is whether or not that power should rest in the hands of state governments or not. If it does, we might as well genuinely abolish the United States and become 50 countries (wouldn't bother me one bit to be completely honest but I'd definitely be leaving Indiana).

Thanks. North Korea? The movie selection leaves something to be desired.

Direct elections for the Senate were enacted because from the post-civil war era until their implementation, the Congress (the Senate in particular) was the most powerful governmental institution in Amerca, and most often obstructed the efforts of the President to act, which is why nobody remembers the presidents from A. Johnson to TR. The progressive era ushered in the dawn of strong presidents, for better or for worse.

welcome back Putin33, holy shit its been a long time since I saw you make a post.

@ Emac

We need to make senators directly accountable to their states, not the people. The Senate is the house of the states, not the house of the people. That way, if a senator does something stupid his/her state government can recall him/her. As intended, the 17th Amendment was designed to counter perceived corruption of the state legislatures. However, with as corrupted as the electoral process, I believe state legislatures could send better senators than the people of the states.

Also, senators need to be insulated from popular opinion to an extent. Hopefully, they will use this insulation to restore the Constitution even if it's not the trendy or popular or democratic thing to do.

"Collecting more taxes than is absolutely necessary is legalized robbery."

President Calvin Coolidge

100% agreed with gunfighter

Gunfighter, you make a good point about state legislatures being able to recall Senators, and I don't 100% disagree with that, but state senates are, more often than not, staffed by complete nutjobs who are even more reactionary or liberal than most state Senators already are. Case in point: Tennessee. The last thing Congress needs is the TN legislature sending Stacey "Don't Say Gay" Campfield to Washington. I really think that it would only serve to make the Senate even more polarized.

re: KKK
" In the Enforcement Act of 1870 act, the government banned the use of terror, force or bribery to prevent people from voting because of their race. Other laws banned the KKK entirely. Hundreds of KKK members were arrested and tried as common criminals and terrorists. The first Klan was all but eradicated within a year of federal prosecution." - src wiki

That is not to deny that the KKK exists now. Merely to suggest they were banned in the past.

And that ban was overturned as unconstitutional. We had prohibition to and that was repealed. As the law stands right now, you *cannot* ban private organization for any reason. You can *restrict* their activities and flag them as advocate of hate crime, but even then those restrictions are only to the criminal action (i.e. if at a rally they say "Kill all the n*ggers" you can have them arrested for inciting others to commit felonies, a crime). Bit you can't stop them from saying "We are superior to those n*ggers." as that is not an actual hate crime.

Foreign terrorist organizations are effectively banned. But maybe you're excluding those from consideration.

Foreign terrorist organizations... The key word is "foreign". They are not citizens and do not enjoyt he full set of rights US citizens do. But if two or more American citizens choose to gather and talk terror, as long as they don't actively plot a criminal act, they are good.