And http://youtu.be/5ADyWgMwxx0

Does anyone know a bit more about Japanese culture?

I've put together some ideas (along with the taxataion/redistribution of wealth thread) and my own experience of goal orientated education.

But i know these are just ideas which are floating at the top of my head.
Anyone else have anything to add, why is Japanese culture so different? Why do they get great setvice without tipping? Is it all down to intrinsic vs extrinsic rewards?

What would you do if you won €100,000,000?

All these questions and more!

I only know what I have absorbed through glorious nippon cartoons

This: www.ted.com/talks/dan_pink_on_motivation?language=en#t-260386

I once left a tip in a restaurant in Tokyo and when I left the waiter chased after me and gave me the money back outside the restaurant.

tipping is rarely done in Europe either---thats because employees are payed a living wage

I'll probably get some flack for this, but this is partly why I don't like tipping when I'm going out. It's reinforcing how our society treats its service workers (and yes I know that it doesn't change the reality of what waiters and waitresses have to go through). The US way isn't the only way, and in many ways, I think it's better if we pay our employees a living wage and not try to pass on the costs to the customers through other means.

80% Us economy are service based

Tipping is common in the UK but not quite so much as in the USA. People in the UK only tend to tip if the service is good. I've known American friends / visitors to grumble about mediocre service but still give a (small) tip, which I do find odd.

Saying tipping is rarely done in Europe is pushing it a little I'd say, but it's not frowned upon to not tip I suppose.

I personally don't get people's obsession with money anyway, but obviously a waiter/waitress sees that differently.

I should note that while tips are hardly uncommon, a few euros is probably a pretty decent tip in most cases.

tipping in the USA seems to be considered part of the pay. In the UK this is not the case and it is an, albeit encouraged, option.

That sums up the Netherlands and where I've been in Europe as well.

I've seen a few local restaurants that are trying to buck the tread by posting signs that there employees are not to accept tips as they are paid a living wage so to speak and the employees there generally seem happy and have always refused any tips. So maybe there is hope that our system can be changed.

That's in the USA?

In the USA we have a minimum wage (currently not a LIVING wage, it's $8.75) and a "tipped employee" minimum wage. A waiter in a small diner will get paid $2 per hour, and depends on tips to live. So not tipping in the US is a slap in the face to the wait staff.

And yes, a very few restaurants in the US are beginning to pay their wait staff $15 per hour or more and advertise "no tipping". The food prices increase somewhat, which is of course offset by the fact that there's no tip to add.

We are taught that a 15% tip is standard. I teach my kids always start at 20% for good service, pay AT LEAST 15% on any bill, and if you feel that's too much, pay it anyway but talk to the manager and tell them why service was so bad. If the service was good, I'll round up - a $65 bill would usually get a $15 tip to make it an even $80. I have noticed that people who have ever worked in the restaurant industry are usually the best tippers.

Bartenders should be tipped separately. Usually, a minimum of $1 for any mixed drink - if a draft beer is $5.25, I'll give them $6. Bottled beers don't need quite as much, but give them something anyway. If you're ordering a $16 cosmo, give them a $20 and leave it. Remember - people without money will spend whatever they get, so you're helping the economy by keeping that money moving.

And by helpIng the economy, you mean increasing tax revenues! Cause the government has every incentive to raise more cash; the more you consume the more GDP goes up, even if you vomit your drinks up afterwards... And when you get accustomed to a higher level of consumption, don't worry, you can always work harder and for less to make the money you need...

Wait, did i get side-tracked there?

Orath, go vomit your shit elsewhere. You are soooo boring. The same shit over and over with you. I'm so surprised that the powers that be let you continue to stir the pot. Play a game. Dude, don't say you don't have time, it's quite apparent that you do.

my theory on tipping in America is that over here we all thrive on the "Customer is King" attitude. it's empowering to people to feel that, when receiving a service of some kind, they know the person should be motivated to do a good job because they directly control whether servers are fairly paid for the work they do for you. in other places, I think Japan especially from stories I've heard, it's not about the money you get from working, but the pride you have in your job. in America it's all about the end game and how much money you can have added to your pocket/wallet after the work day is over. money trumps all. working 60+ hour weeks, or working two jobs, isn't just common, it's often necessary in order to make ends meet. the more accurate and general depiction of this attitude is actually "Money is King" rather than "Customer is King", but they go hand in hand.

I've discovered in China that tipping isn't common for the sole reason that the entire concept of service isn't something valued enough to want to pay a premium for. It's just a cultural thing, it's better to spend your money on something tangible like more food rather then so that some silly waitress will smile at you and ask how your day went. It's just a goofy concept to them and something sucker westerners do.

For some not familiar with the tipping ettiquitte, they may confusingly take it as a bit insulting as it implies that their employer is undervaluing them and you're offering charity to make up the difference.

And since we're on the topic of tipping, this is a fun and interesting watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_vivC7c_1k

@ssorenn, take a look at the ted talk i linked, it says really interesting things about motivation. And the science we understand about it.

Now how you choose to apply that information is up to you, i see the difference between US and Japanese tipping culture as a perfect illustration of this point, something which had not occured to me until i saw the youtube links above anout Japan.

I think it really highlights this aspect of our (the US and To a large extent European) shared culture. And given that it can be problematic, highlighting that allows us think about alternative structures and processes which might 'fix' these problems...

You know as well as I, that's not what I'm talking about Orath, you are entitled to you beliefs on religion and politics, and he redispursement of wealth, you weren't making comments on tipping in Japan, this was just another ploy to spew your rhetoric about how bad you think everyone one else is. You really need to stop. Every thread you post or post in, has the same connotation. Boring. If you want to play a game, I'm in. Otherwise stop PLEASE.

I you don't want to read my threads. Mute me, instead of whinging about not wanting to read them.

This realisation about how tipping culture is different in Japan gives me thoughts and yes i link them with all the other thoughts, but i posted hecause it is interesting.

Of course my other thoughts are similar to what i've posted before! I continue to think them!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_vivC7c_1k

@ jbalcorn: "We are taught that a 15% tip is standard. I teach my kids always start at 20% for good service, pay AT LEAST 15% on any bill, and if you feel that's too much, pay it anyway"

If you give a reasonable tip for *bad* service, then how can it possibly be regarded as a "service charge"??

In my opinion, every worker who is employed by a company should have a legal right to be paid a living wage by that company. If you choose to dine in a restaurant, and you don't thing that restaurant is paying its employees enough for them to live - then you have just admitted that you are patronising an establishment whose profits are based on *abusing* vulnerable workers. Instead of eating there, you should campaign against them. By continuing to eat there, and paying tips regardless of the service, you are actually perpetuating, and contributing to, an injustice.

"A waiter in a small diner will get paid $2 per hour, and depends on tips to live."

Then they are being abused by their employer. Any employer who only pays $2 an hour is a criminal in my eyes and should be prosecuted.

We mostly don't tip in Australia either. 'cos we do have a legal requirement to pay staff a decent living wage (mostly). You can tip, but it's only for actually exceptional service, not for stuff you can reasonably expect the restaurant (or whatever else) to be providing.

People always tip in Canada. Although I believe servers get paid something very close to the minimum wage, unlike the US.

^

I got paid $2.10/hour as a waiter. It covered my various payroll taxes ans I doubt I took much of it home. If you want to change tipping in the US, great, but start with the wages. A server is worth $10-12 an hour minimum if they are even decent at their job.

I usually operate on the tip 10% if the service is competent and with a genuine smile. It is the resto's responsibility to hire and pay decent staff. (But by the same token though, the playing field should be levelled with a 'living wage' requirement.) It is surely sensible, where there is a choice of eating places, to keep your folks happy!

Originally read this thread as:

"Tripping in Japan

Apparently, not so cool."

Just curious but in the USA are servers in fast food joints entitled to the minimum wage? if so then there must be a whole hazy border-line between what is classified as a restuarant and what is deemed to be a fast food joint.

Fast food restaurats have to pay the true minimum because their employees are not tipped.

And @Chumbles - The entire service industry is based on the expected tip of between 15-20%. If you are paying 10%, then you are cheating your server out of a living wage. You don't like tipping? Don't go to a restaurant that expects it. Because that server just served you and you told her "You're not worth paying".

^ This comment is obviously USA-centric. And yes, the owner should pay a living wage - but until they do, don't insult your server.

Oh, and another thing - make sure your local restaurants actually pay the tips to their employees. There are far too many restaurant owners who take a cut of the tips. It's even worse for coat check and valet.

I try to usually pay the tip in cash, that way the server can be sure they get it.

I have bought lunch in the USA in some very nice, what we could call cafes in Europe, sat down with my food and eat at the table. Is this classified as a fast food joint or restuarant?

It's a cafe', and if there is no server at the table, tipping is not required. However, you might notice a jar for tips at the counter - tipping is optional in these cases.

There is often a server mainly collecting plates but also offering to bring extra food and/or drink, what then?

more importantly is he/she likely to be on minimum wage?

That person is a food runner and they SHOULD be on full minimum wage. It's appropriate, but not required, to leave them a couple of bucks if they provided nice service.

Any place that asks you to clear your own table - they do that because they expect that their customers do not need to tip.

Wow, actually had no idea wages for servers in the USA was so low. In Canada it's only about $1.50 less then regular minimum wage ($9.55 vs $11) and even then that only applies if you work as a server at a place that also serves alcohol.

Tipping is commonly around 15% in Canada.

OK thanks, I am beginning to understand now. It is devilishly complicated to the outsider, but I guess that works in reverse in other ways too.

Is that why American food is considered cheaper? Because you're basically expected to 'tip the difference'? Or is it cheap even if you add 15% to every meal?

Also is it okay not to tip when you're pretty poor yourself in the USA?

Reminds me of the plaque at the back of my favourite pub "Tipping is not a place in China"

@steephie - if you're too poor to tip, you're too poor to eat in the restaurant. I'm not exactly rich because of alimony, so when I budget a night out, I do so assuming tip.

@jbalcorn: That's kind of my point though: should you go to restaurants less because you can't afford the tip?
Seems silly..
If you have the wealth, it's good in many ways since as someone already mentioned, money given to poor people will be spent again. If you're poor yourself though, that reasoning doesn't really work.

I keep misreading this as "tripping in Japan" and thinking it's a completely different topic.