I would certainly argue Ruhr and Piedmont, but Silesia? Not all too much. I think SC's are distributed more strategically than economically here though.

No.

What was the strategic value of Tunisia?

great beaches

Go make a variant over at vDip. Something tells me that a Western power, usually Gerrmany, will win every game.

@ Putin: Tunis is a major deepwater port positioned in a very strategic location. Any naval force seeking supremacy in the Mediterranean would need to be very concerned about control of Tunis.

It will be noted that in WW2 the Axis and Allied forces spent nearly six months fighting for Tunisia - it must have had significant strategic value in their eyes, too.

Besides on a more general point, Diplomacy is an abstract game - it's not intended as a detailed simulation of Europe's economy in 1901.

From a gameplay perspective, look what would happen if you altered the board so that Tunis wasn't an SC, and Silesia was instead. Italy, already a tricky power to play, would be completely fucked.

And you also seem to be proposing that Germany should begin the game with 5 units...

Yorkshire and Wales should also be SCs, and St. Petersburg could only be a supply center in the Spring after the ice melts, and where's America in all this?

@Putin

The real reason - I think - is that World War I started at the Balkans (as did the last war in Europe) and for this reason, SCs were given to that area, so as to really make the Balkans one of the possible tinderboxes of Europe. I guess this is also the reason that Tunisia was given one; it concentrates the game away from the center of the board to the peripheries, which makes for more fascinating play.

HUGS
red

@redhouse1938

It's clear to me that you have no idea what you just said. Mute for you.

Also I'm not sure how many other SC-s should be changed but Trieste SC should be renamed into Split SC as it was the main supply center of the region back then... :)

'where's America in all this?' - busy with the Monroe Doctrine and isolationism.

Europe was not in it's sphere of influence, so there was no interest. And given the fact that the war went on fairly effectively for several years without them it is fair to assume it would have been fine had they never intervened. (i mean, as far as wars go...)

"@ Putin: Tunis is a major deepwater port positioned in a very strategic location. Any naval force seeking supremacy in the Mediterranean would need to be very concerned about control of Tunis."

Why was it not conquered until 1880? And not by the British, the greatest naval power in the world.

"It will be noted that in WW2 the Axis and Allied forces spent nearly six months fighting for Tunisia - it must have had significant strategic value in their eyes, too."

But not until late 1942. It appears that Egypt, Libya, and Malta were more important.

"Besides on a more general point, Diplomacy is an abstract game - it's not intended as a detailed simulation of Europe's economy in 1901."

That's probably true. It just struck me as odd that key economic centers had no value.

Giving them value would make the game crappier.

"And given the fact that the war went on fairly effectively for several years without them it is fair to assume it would have been fine had they never intervened."

American intervention was helpful in breaking the stalemate. One could debate whether it was absolutely necessary, but it sure helped. In early 1917 Germans submarine warfare was hurting the British, the French were turned back from their Nivelle offensive, and the Russians had just experienced a revolution.

I don't know about that. Germany and England's win % rates are too low as to be realistic, while Russia and Turkey's are too high.

@Putin this game is about solos, the war was not a solo. It ended in a three-way draw
(I-F-E) with Russia in civil disorder and the Ottoman empire and Austro-hungarian empire on the verge of CDing... so i'm not sure what you're talking about on win % rates.

You'd agree that draws are more common than wins, though. I'm simply talking about likelihoods of winning based on how the board is arranged. In 1914, Germany was the #2 industrial power and #1 military power. In diplomacy its win/draw rate is 30.42%, which is 5th best, only Austria & Italy are worse.

Where are those stats from?

http://www.diplom.org/Zine/F2006M/Burton/DP_F2006M_best_powers.htm

OK, that explains a lot.

I get what you're saying Putin, but when I said strategically I meant in terms of creating an even board. As someone said, without Tunis Italy is screwed.

As for your real life questions, much of Africa wasn't colonized until the 19th century, so that doesn't surprise me. The British already had Malta, so they didn't really need something else so close (or so big). As for fighting not taking place until '42 there, that's because the front line wasn't there. Libya was Italian and Algeria was Vichy french.

Italy would have an SC at Piedmont instead. Would Italy be less screwed if passage was allowed through Switzerland? It would make it easier to attack southern France anyway.

The game close to perfect just like it is. Every country, with the exception of England, gets a free SC to start. England, however, is the toughest country to defeat (even Turkey, I think), so it balances out.

France and Germany have two freebies, but they'll need it, especially Germany.

And there's always drama with Trieste, the Balkans, Scandanavia, and Belgium/Holland. Every game is different.

The best part of Diplomacy is the diplomacy itself. I personally enjoy a good alliance. It's very hard to stop an alliance when there's complete trust between countries.

That's why Russia is such a challenge. You typically have to juggle two alliances, while making tough decisions on your builds every Winter. In a way, Italy is similar in that both France and Austria are in fierce competition for Italian help.

I've tried the variants. I don't really care for them and always come back to the original.

The only thing I can't stand is players not playing after they start. It sucks.

I don't understand people not absolutely owning with Germany. But this is webdip, so the quality is...

Two wins with Germany is owning?

Huh?