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stratagos (3269 D(S))
03 Nov 11 UTC
Chainsaw Diplomacy Public Press
Any of you idiots capable of processing the simple concept? Details inside..
85 replies
Open
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
03 Nov 11 UTC
Minor Car Trouble
So, I've been having a little trouble with my car and I'm trying to fix it myself without going to a shop. So far, my attempts haven't been successful and my internet searches have been less than helpful. I thought someone here may be able to give me some tips. Details inside.

50 replies
Open
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
02 Nov 11 UTC
The Top 10 Most Important Battles of All-Time
Pretty self-explanatory...if you want to try and rank your picks, bonus points.
I WILL give one caveat--all of my picks ARE slanted towards the West, that's just my bias...don't know enough Eastern Theatre battles to really include many, and those that do make my list are because the West drove back the East...so you can include Eastern battles--please do!--but I don't known them, so can't include them. Let the War of the Words begin! :)
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Putin33 (111 D)
04 Nov 11 UTC
Ok, so a few things.

1) The Soviet Union didn't want western Europe and had ample opportunity to seize large parts of it regardless of the BoB.

Exhibit A) - Austria. The USSR simply handed Austria over even though they did all the heavy fighting of liberation there against army group South. They could have easily implemented a communist government there, but they did not. They went with Renner instead, whom the allies didn't even recognize anyway.

Exhibit B) Germany. Austria was to the model for Germany but naturally, the allies couldn't keep their promises and decided to divide, rearm, reindustrialize, and reNazify West Germany instead, against all the agreements made at Yalta.

Exhibit C) Greece. How many times was KKE on the precipice of taking over the Greek state, and how many times did the Soviets tell them no, to scale back, to not go forward. The KKE was by far the most powerful party in Greece, with the most powerful army (ELAS), and the only thing that kept them from taking over was Moscow. The KKE was instructed to join a government of national unity and to pursue non-military policies, separating itself from ELAS.

Exhibit D) - The fact that the Soviets had been clamoring for a western invasion of western Europe several years before it ever occurred. But Churchill pursued a peripherel strategy instead, and insisted that oh no, the timing wasn't right, they couldn't do it in 1942, they couldn't do it in 1943, they wouldn't have even done it in 1944 had it not been for American pressure.

2) The Kriegsmarine would have never "driven the RN from the Channel" nor would they would have been able to successfully escort a "flotilla of barges" across the ditch. The Germans couldn't transport enough troops and supplies for the invasion and there were few good landing beaches in southern England. The barges they had were way too few, and too poor in quality. They were in effect using Rhine river barges to cross the ocean that would sink upon any bad weather. They had no ability to transport heavy artillery or armor across. They'd be solely reliant on several infantry divisions, maybe 10. Britain had sufficient forces to mow them down. Furthermore, it is well known that Britain had authorized the use of chemical weapons against the invading Germans had they managed to get across. If the Germans tried an airborne landing it would have been Crete part deux, x 1000.

3) Even if the Germans won the BoB, the British would simply retreat out of range in the north, only to reemerge and fly south upon any attempt at invasion.

4) The Germans had zero intention of invading Britain, knowing full well Sealion was hopeless and having desire to fight the British to begin with. They had always wanted to go east, and had just hoped they could convince Britain to get out of the war.




Putin33 (111 D)
04 Nov 11 UTC
Oh, and Germany had no torpedo bombers, all of their bombers were good for stationary targets, not mobile targets like the RN.
@ Putin - I agree with everything but your very last statement. The Junkers-88 were dive-bombers I believe, and could be used effectively against ships
Putin33 (111 D)
04 Nov 11 UTC
Dive bombers, yes they had those Junker Stukas, who would be utterly destroyed by the RN. So much so that they were withdrawn, I believe.
Putin33 (111 D)
04 Nov 11 UTC
*rather, they performed so poorly in the BoB they were withdrawn.
Correct, but they were still used in Russia I believe, and if the Germans had hypothetically won the battle of britain they might not have been withdrawn, eh?

But yeah, they matched up pretty horribly against the RAF
Putin33 (111 D)
04 Nov 11 UTC
They weren't very good at hitting convoys, so that might be a better indication of how they would have performed with air superiority.
Ahh, true. I forgot about all the fights along the Murmansk/Archangel supply route
Draugnar (0 DX)
04 Nov 11 UTC
The big difference between a convoy and the RN is that ships are *big* and trucks are not. Secondly ships can't turn on the dime and actually move slower than the convoy trucks. So not hitting trucks in a convoy is no indication of how well the dive bombers would do against the ships of the RN.
ulytau (541 D)
04 Nov 11 UTC
Dive bombers would be ripped apart from 40mm Bofors mounted on the ships. AA guns are a great counter for low-level aircraft like Stukas.
Draugnar (0 DX)
04 Nov 11 UTC
Yeah, it would be about like the Japanese Kamikaze in that they'd just dive them right into the ships and Germany couldn't afford to be destroying both planes and pilots like that.
ulytau (541 D)
04 Nov 11 UTC
The Kamikaze style came to my mind as well. If you have to utilize such tactics, you know you don't have the upper hand. Plus Stukas were much slower and worse at maneuvring than Japanese planes.
@Draug - he meant convoys of ships, not of trucks
Draugnar (0 DX)
04 Nov 11 UTC
Ah... My history knowledge is admitedly weak. sorry about that. Yeah, if you can't hit a convoy of transports, you ain't hitting shit when it comes to warships.
Draugnar (0 DX)
04 Nov 11 UTC
@uly - And a hell of a lot more expensive. The Japanese minimally trained the pilots who knew they were flying bombs with wings and built the cheapest plane that would do the job because they weren't returning.
Thucydides (864 D(B))
05 Nov 11 UTC
Siege of Baghdad 1258, Battle of Ain Jalut 1260, Tours, Trenton.

I agree with these all. Ain Jalut stopped Mongols moving into Egypt and fucking... God knows what. Ethiopia? Lol. Big deal. I also second Baghdad for the long last effects mentioned. Trenton also important, but you could maybe argue to replace it with Saratoga - if that had not worked the way it did the French would not have intervened on America's side and there would not be an America.

I also agree with Cortez, and, Putin, though it may not have been a single battle, there were plenty of points along the way where Cortez just got lucky as shit - it was imho in no way assured that the Aztecs were going to lose. Yeah there was the disease but it's not unimaginable to see them staving off expeditions to the point where they buy themselves 200 years or so, no telling what might have changed with that alteration.

Same goes for the Inca war of succession that concluded just before Pizarro arrived - if it had gone differently the Inca would have been ready for the Spanish and there would *definitely* be no telling what the Andean region would look like politically and culturally today.

My number one however is the Fall of Constantinople, 1453.

Why? Well, because with the East now controlled by Islam, Europe was driven in earnest to look west. I'm not saying the New World would not have been discovered were it not for Con falling, I'm sure Portugal would have gone ahead with their shit, but my bet is that far fewer European powers would have been on board with that if they could still look east towards the Indies and not West.

Not to mention, like, idk, the fact that if Constantinople had held, you wouldn't have had the Ottoman Empire and you wouldn't have had today's Middle East or the Siege of Vienna or any of that.

It probably would have still fallen later, but you never know do you with this counterfactual stuff.

Another really important battle - Kublai Khan's fleet being destroyed en route to Japan.

Okay so maybe not a battle per se but. An invasion of Japan? Asia would have never been the same. Japan is Asia's Britain.
ulytau (541 D)
05 Nov 11 UTC
If Mongols won at Ain Jalut, they wouldn't oust Mamlukes from Egypt anyway, you cannot comfortably feed a huge cavalry army in Egypt and Mamlukes were not yet those military pushovers as later during Ottos conquest. Ethiopia is even more impossible feat, look at the difficulties Mongols had in hilly Korea, same would apply to Ethiopia and the reward would be lower (Korea as a neighbour and traditional rival to Kubilai China vs absolute periphery of then known world).
Thucydides (864 D(B))
05 Nov 11 UTC
Oh but uh.

Just to like. Throw a wrench in yall's well oiled machine.

Probably THE most important battle in all of history =

That one time when Adam or whoever fought off that one animal that attacked you know, all of our ancestors. Since we are all descended from one guy and one girl, probably (they lived millions of years apart though).

You know, if he hadn't managed to beat back that jackal or whatever it was that must have been attacking us, him, his son, whoever, his brother, then, you know. The end. What's next on the hit list, evolution?

Though I am half serious about that one here's one I am totally serious about:

However the battle of Megiddo in 1479 BC was extremely important I think.

In that if the Egyptians had been beaten, I think it is safe to say the history of the whole region would have flipped, turned upside down, and Egypt might never have become the Fresh Prince of Bel Air. Slash maybe there would not have been like, Jews and stuff.

Etc. My opinion is that the further back you go, the less you have to change to be significant. This is the oldest battle of recorded history, so, there you go. And it involves ancient Egypt and the ancestors of the Jewish people so... pretty important.
Thucydides (864 D(B))
05 Nov 11 UTC
ulytau -

If there is one single thing I have learned from history:

Don't underestimate Mongols.
Thucydides (864 D(B))
05 Nov 11 UTC
I'm back in Dakar for the weekend and Tabaskit lol hello all I may be on again tomorrow
ulytau (541 D)
05 Nov 11 UTC
Yeah, it all went pretty well for Mongols, we can see that at the current state of their country ;)
Thucydides (864 D(B))
05 Nov 11 UTC
See I dunno if that's really something they would have cared about.

They struck me as more of the type of guy who's like, the guy, in risk, who has 300 troops on one province and says "You know what, I can't win, but sure can fuck up the world for a few turns, and why not? People will be talking about what I did for a long time. Let's do it."

Lol
ulytau (541 D)
05 Nov 11 UTC
That's something I can agree with although it sounds more like Tamerlane then actual Mongols :)
Putin33 (111 D)
05 Nov 11 UTC
World history can be summed up as a process of constant struggle between nomadic steppe communities and settled agricultural communities. Mongols were just one in a long line of steppe empires. There is nothing that can sustain these types of communities though. Hard to build a population when you constantly have to move to eat.
Thucydides (864 D(B))
05 Nov 11 UTC
okay maybe until like 1500 but what about exploration industrialization and colonization and globalization and urbanization
Putin33 (111 D)
05 Nov 11 UTC
Sure but many of the countries we see today, the big states like India, China and even Russia, they exist because states developed in response to pressures from neighboring steppe nomads along an arid belt. Why is the Middle East so turbulent and a source of constant warfare? Because it has been pressured by nomadic forces in all directions. Most of the conflicts you see today seem to be in these same locations, where historically settled communities border nomadic areas along an arid belt.
bill777 (100 D)
05 Nov 11 UTC
Here's my top 10 (not in order of importance)
1) Battle of Teutoburg Wald
2) Battle of Salamis
3) Conquest of Mecca by Muhammad
4) Battle of Tours (Poitiers)
5) Capture of Constantinople by Sultan Mehmed II
6) Battle of Hastings
7) Halting of the Spanish Armada
8) Battle of Stalingrad
9) Battle of Anttietam/Battle of Gettysburg (It depends on your opinion as to which was the turning point)
10) Chinese Civil War (Not a battle per se, but still a decisive conflict)
Sicarius (673 D)
05 Nov 11 UTC
I could have missed it, but I didnt see anyone mention battle of Cajamarca or conquest of Tenochitlan by cortes (I forget the name of the specific battle)

Battle of Cajamarca is the battle that I think, had some of the most influence in the shaping of the world we live in today. I dont want to number it, especially since there are so many here with a much greater knowledge on the subject than me, but I definitely think it deserves inclusion. I mean come on, less than 200 men with horses "conquer" (de facto at least) what was at that time arguably the largest and most sophisticated civilization on earth? I mean if you really really look into it, it was basically a series of amazing coincidences that allowed (pizarro?) to achieve victory.
granted, the incan empire at that point was totally ravaged by european disease (that preceded actual europeans) and a gruesome civil war for the throne that combined took something like... 80% mortality? could be way off with the % there I'm only guessing, but whatever the actual number the catastophic effect remains the same.
Sicarius (673 D)
05 Nov 11 UTC
@ ulytau

I seen this map from freedomhouse (whoever they are?) that ranked mongolias country as "more free" than the USA or france.
ulytau (541 D)
05 Nov 11 UTC
Mongolia scored 2.0 in last 2 years while the USA and France scored 1.0.

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193 replies
President Eden (2750 D)
06 Nov 11 UTC
WHOOOOOOOOO YEAAAAAAAAAAH
You only wish your team won the most epic college football game of all time.
23 replies
Open
ChadDC (615 D)
06 Nov 11 UTC
Political Propaganda Help!
Hey guys and gals out there! My name is Chad, and I am making a request to all you out there who are interested: Want to help me run for "President?"
6 replies
Open
Ges (292 D)
06 Nov 11 UTC
12-hr Classic WTA Gunboat, 10 pt. buy-in
gameID=71558

Two players needed in a day.
0 replies
Open
trip (696 D(B))
05 Nov 11 UTC
Chew on this...
Tettleton's Chew, utilize this thread by posting new topics of discussion here and only here.
11 replies
Open
Lando Calrissian (100 D(S))
04 Nov 11 UTC
One thousand
gameID=71433
PM me for password.
2 replies
Open
Tettleton's Chew (0 DX)
13 Oct 11 UTC
George Will is priceless
George Will is rarely matched as a political commentator. His column on the Occupy Wall Street bunch is unforgettable.
20 replies
Open
Tettleton's Chew (0 DX)
12 Oct 11 UTC
Positive Rights Foolishness
Many foolish individuals in these forums post positive rights ideology.
What a worthless, destructive point of view.
Look at what it has done to Europe since the end of WWII.
God help us save American from this lunacy.
64 replies
Open
Tettleton's Chew (0 DX)
03 Nov 11 UTC
Slavoj Zizek on Charlie Rose
One of the best philosophers around. If you didn't catch the Charlie Rose episode with Slavoj then treat yourself,
http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/11966#
7 replies
Open
Tiamat (0 DX)
04 Nov 11 UTC
Fresh Meat
Hey everybody. I just came across this site when looking for diplomacy tactics...I have to say it might definitely be worth my time. Since I'm a new guy at this site, how do I start playing a game with other people?
13 replies
Open
fulhamish (4134 D)
06 Nov 11 UTC
Darmstadtium (Ds), roentgenium (Rg) and copernicium (Cn)
I see that we have three new elements to add to the Periodic Table.
I just wonder is it really appropriate to call these fleetingly present nuclear bodies elemental?
10 replies
Open
SpeakerToAliens (147 D(S))
05 Nov 11 UTC
Clear Air Turbulence
gameID=71500. No in-game messaging, Anonymous players, Winner-takes-all, 30 D buy-in.
2 replies
Open
Marti the Bruce (100 D)
06 Nov 11 UTC
Sydney FC
I know most here are not Australian, nor football supporters, but the Sky Blues had a most fantastic and heroic victory tonight over Gold Coast United. 3-2 at the death. Karol Kisel scores a penalty at 90+3mins! Brilliant!
Discuss.....lol
0 replies
Open
Draugnar (0 DX)
01 Nov 11 UTC
ACORN's at it again...
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/10/26/exclusive-acorn-playing-behind-scenes-role-in-occupy-movement/?intcmp=obinsite

Doesn't surprise me one bit...
120 replies
Open
AverageWhiteBoy (314 D)
04 Nov 11 UTC
Seven best fictional characters to play Diplomacy together
Who knows, maybe this'll become a tournament or something.
57 replies
Open
President Eden (2750 D)
05 Nov 11 UTC
Hey guys, let's be nicer to newer gunboaters.
I've been going through and updating my stats on my profile page so I can show my record in full, partial and no press (and update messages/game), and so I got to see how well I played in gunboat to start. Guess what I found?
15 replies
Open
Tettleton's Chew (0 DX)
02 Nov 11 UTC
The Failure of European Socialism
We are living in historic times. Right before our eyes the failed model of European socialism is collapsing. The only question is what will exist in its ruins? The senseless youth violence in England, and the self-pitying protests of you Frenchmen do not bode well for the continents decaying culture.
43 replies
Open
dubjamaica (0 DX)
04 Nov 11 UTC
free booze
gameID=71510 join if you want free booze
6 replies
Open
Diplomat33 (243 D(B))
04 Nov 11 UTC
Google Easter Egg- Do a barrel roll
What fun. I love easter eggs. Type in do a barrel roll n google and it will. Also Z or R twice works as a tribute to starfox.
5 replies
Open
Tettleton's Chew (0 DX)
11 Oct 11 UTC
The Importance of Enrtrepreneurship
This is something that socialists, marxists, and statists do not comprehend, the importance of entrepreneurship to economic growth.
In fact entrepreneurship is the only advantage the United States has on the rest of the world.
72 replies
Open
GinoKay (249 D)
04 Nov 11 UTC
11-SC Argentina replacement needed
1 reply
Open
martinck1 (4464 D(S))
03 Nov 11 UTC
The 47% Game
See below
10 replies
Open
yujufrazer (100 D)
04 Nov 11 UTC
Help
http://webdiplomacy.net/map.php?gameID=71205&turn=5&mapType=large

K here is our map. my question is, if i move my boat from the english channel to the northsea with support from norwegian sea. but he moves his boat from north sea to BEL, with support from Hol, would my move stop his move or at least cut support?
5 replies
Open
Tettleton's Chew (0 DX)
02 Nov 11 UTC
Herman Cain & Bill Clinton
How can a decade old accusation of sexual harassment against Herman Cain even be an issue in American politics after all the liberals dismissed Bill Clinton's adultery with a member of the staff in the White House as being completely irrelevant to his job as president.
12 replies
Open
Tettleton's Chew (0 DX)
10 Oct 11 UTC
How the World Really Works II
Since so many don't understand how the world around them works this thread is crucial.
78 replies
Open
Tettleton's Chew (0 DX)
02 Oct 11 UTC
Lower Taxes=More Revenue
The 28% tax on long-term capital gains brought in only $36.9 billion a year from 1987 to 1997, according to the Treasury Department, while the 15% tax brought in $96.8 billion a year from 2004 to 2007.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904194604576583151431651920.html
65 replies
Open
DonXavier (1341 D)
04 Nov 11 UTC
1 more for 200 point buy in
Ancient Med
1 more player
200 point buy in
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=71261
0 replies
Open
Tru Ninja (1016 D(S))
03 Nov 11 UTC
Let's Assume
You're France in S01 and Italy moves to Piedmont while Marseilles moved to Spain and Paris to Picardy along with Brest-MAO. Barring any real diplomacy that has gone on, are you more likely to return to Marseilles in the fall assuming Italy will attack it, or list a hold order assuming a bluff?
6 replies
Open
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