I put in 200+ applications after college and got 2 callbacks. Clearly more specialization was needed. I should have been an engineer.

age/insufficient education level

source: 20yo undergrad. :p

I don't completely get what you how do you mean, I'm interested in why you chose to do a PhD, or why you chose not to do one.

What did you study? Where do you live?

what do you study

I plan on getting my Edu doctorate after I obtain my masters degree (it's the PhD equivalent for education). Since I'm going to be a teacher, it will pay dividends on down the road.

--A teaching certificate allows me to teach in grade schools or tech schools
--A master's degree increases my pay and gives me the opportunity to teach in colleges and universities (most universities allow Masters degree holding individuals to teach 100 and 200 level courses)
--A doctorate degree in education would increase my pay more and grant me the opportunity to teach any undergraduate course in a university as well as graduate courses.

well, I'm doing Chemical Engineering, currently studying in Germany. I don't want to limit myself to a certain geographical area, so I think this doesn't matter a lot.

Do you want to work in Research and Development after you're done? Or do research at a University?

I am in electrical engineering and stopped at Masters. I think M.S. is a good level to help get a job (I have been told that the PhD sometimes prices you out of jobs or narrows opportunities), but at two separate companies I have found that the lack of PhD hindered promotion opportunities. It is not too hard to get the M.S. while working, but getting a PhD you pretty much have to stop work and focus for a few years, so if I had it to do again I would have stayed in school and gotten the PhD.

The strategies could be completely different in the education world, though.

Depends on what kind of job you see for yourself for the future. If you want to do go in business after a science study, I would not advise to do a phd.

I know it is a big thing to be a doctor in Germany, status-wise and everything, but I would not be surprised if that changes quite soon. I think the 4 year spent on "additional education" (of course it's not only education) can be spent better. For example, by getting some years of work experience, do an MBA, etc.

Cheers

@redhouse, yes, if knew the answer to that question I wouldn't have bothered you with the question in the first place: I have yet no preference. I'll be starting my internship at March 1st at an R&D dept at a company, whereafter I need to write a thesis on computer-based research (most likely about an optimization problem they think is hard). And in fact both options are equally appealing to me.
Frankly I really hate standing/being in a laboratory all day, so I won't be pursuing anything chemistry related. I know the difference between the two types of research and was more or less interested in why other people chose either way.
@Tru Ninja, clear, money, I guess not my foremost concern, but a valid point. Judging your reply you like teaching stuff as well. Wouldn't mind doing that as well, but I do mind repeating myself more than twice to the same person.

I am a biologist with a MSc and PhD on Neurosciences.As my intention was to work as a professor, the PhD was very important. It made it easier to get a position, it adds a little to my paycheck and a lot to the weight on my opinion when I am called for a seminar or similar event.

Personally, I'm doing a Ph.D. roughly in the area of physical chemistry ATM. What luke_poa said I agree with, a doctor's degree generally makes that you are an expert at something and you'll be treated as such.
What Bad says is also true, if you don't really want to be an expert and don't particularly care for being treated as such, then by all means find a job you like.
I do believe that there is a general tendency in western society that the values of diplomas become lower and lower because countries want to graduate as many students as possible; I've seen this happen in my university.
So I think in the future the value of a Ph.D. with respect to other degrees will only increase.
The big question is, do you like research?

One thing I think you need to care about a lot (correct me if I'm wrong, webdip community) is your thesis director, would you choose to start a Ph.D..
Is he/she an expert in your field, or more of a smart guy/woman who was good at politics to obtain his/her title? Is he/she gonna send you to the right conferences, or is he going to present your work him/herself? Is this person on the way out of science, on the way in, on the way up? Be sure to get to know everything there is to know about this person and the group before you start.

"--A master's degree increases my pay and gives me the opportunity to teach in colleges and universities (most universities allow Masters degree holding individuals to teach 100 and 200 level courses)
--A doctorate degree in education would increase my pay more and grant me the opportunity to teach any undergraduate course in a university as well as graduate courses. "

Or make you unemployable with school budget cuts and force you to look for a position in research or academia, both of which are not sure bets. Not saying you wont get a job in teaching, research, or academia, but for someone who has friends who are going through it right now know that a degree isn't a guarantee of a job or higher pay anymore

tru ninja you are dreaming if a PhD will get you a job as a teacher....if anything you will be overqualified.... be real man

(if you are trying to become a professor, then yeah, a PhD is pretty much a pre-requisite)

I've been going back and forth on this as well.

I'm finishing my masters in EE at the moment and I think I'm done with school for the time being. I'm excited to actually do some stuff with what I've learned. Looking at a lot of jobs I'm interested in, though, a lot seem to require a PhD (mostly Semiconductor Physics characterization), so I may end up going back for my PhD (hopefully on my company's dime) in a few years.

One last comment: some people appear to suggest that you either "do a Ph.D." or "get a real job and do something with what you've learnt". I can assure you a Ph.D. - at least the one I'm doing - is very much a job and very much putting to use what I've learnt.

@redhouse

Well I would argue it's pretty different. Haven't done a PhD after my MSc so I don't know all the details about a PhD, but I've seen quite some PhD students and the way they work.

You will have much more freedom as a PhD. You will make lots of less hours. It will be much more work on your own, instead of on a team, it can be lonely. It can be intellectually a bit more challenging.

Arguably it's extended student life in some sense. That is not necessarily negative :-) btw.

Well there's some truth in that, but it's more complicated (and strongly depends on what subject you choose). Yes, you can spend less hours working than at a job, on the other hand, you're never really free from work either. The problems you find during a Ph.D. can be so challenging (or worse, mundane, but still unsolvable) that you think about it in your free time. Also, you have freedom, but once you decided to use that freedom, you better pursue the path you chose without looking back otherwise you'll never get anywhere.

@redhouse, well, yes, but that only says that I shouldn't apply for a management position... Your later posts are a bit clearer what it means to be doing a PhD, those really help a lot in making the decision.
btw, I disagree with your assessment that the value of a PhD degree will increase, the difference between the two (MS&PhD) will, because the increased amount of people with MS degrees will decrease more in value than a PhD degree.
@abg, in Europe this is not very common (though one of my RL friends actually does his PhD in econometrics financed by a company), but I'll consider this option. Maybe I can find myself working on that side of the Atlantic in a few years.
@bad, I like your responses, they show both faces

@red

I'm not saying that PhD candidates don't produce real work, but the environment between academia and industry is completely different and I've had enough academia for the moment.

I did my Ph D (Chemistry) because I found the subject area interesting. That (for me) is the only reason to do one. Unless you are incredibly specialised (and lucky), it only adds to your job prospects if you want to be an academic.

On the plus side, my Ph D convinced me I didn't want to be an academic

I'm not going for a PhD, or even thinking about it yet because I'm still an undergrad, but from a few Economics lessons my professor (who is going for his PhD) has repeatedly said that on average, people with PhD's make less than those with only a Master's degree, probably due to pricing yourself out of some job opportunities, so just keep that in mind.

^ Assuming that is true, it could very well be a misleading statistic, especially this conclusion "probably due to pricing yourself out of some job opportunities". It could very well be that those who seek a PhD seek a job in academia which pays less on average than a high level job in the non-academic sector. It may not close doors, but rather be the preference of those getting the PhDs to sacrifice pay for a job they enjoy more. Its the same reason gender statistics are often misused. Women tend to enroll in lower-paying jobs (teaching for example) so the numbers often represent what jobs they choose rather than them getting a lower pay.

Though back on topic, I'm a jumior undergrad who is definitely going to go on to get my masters in Economics. I am considering a PhD, but what advice I would have for you is to not just go for a PhD because you are unsure of what to do career-wise. If you are using a PhD to procrastinate on what direction you want to go, it may be a bad decision (not implying that is exactly what you are doing, but it may be something to think about)

"If you are using a PhD to procrastinate on what direction you want to go, it may be a bad decision "

A big +1 to that.

The decision to get my Master's was about 50/50 being interested in the subject/not knowing what else to do. I don't plan on getting a PhD until i'm 100% committed to a topic.

If you are looking for a PhD in the humanities you arn't doing it for money. You are doing it for a love of the discipline and to expand your knowledge and understanding of that discipline. This is why just can't get along with TC types. I can't tell you how many times I catch shit for choosing to get a graduate degree in history. Somewhere along the line a college education came to be seen as purely a professional degree when it used to be so much more. I got lucky and found a job in my discipline, but the basic question with a PhD is "Am I curious and to I want to learn more" and "Am I willing to alter my life in order to obtain that knowledge." Yes, whether you are employable is a large part of this but in the humanities and probably most of the sciences it is just plain stupid to get a PhD only to make more money.

@abg, european education is differently applied (the bachelor is applied to one specific area, approx. 60% of your subjects is applied to your major I heard this is lower in USA), a dutch (like mine) university-BSc is even seen as a failed MSc degree. And this will be the case as long as no mandatory internship is incorporated in the degree.
@SC, there are subjects I already know a lot of, but are appealing enough to be deepened. Companies in my field of expertise (oil&gas, polymers, etc.) do value a PhD, although not as much as 4 years of work experience.

So you have to decide whether or not you want to be a foremost theoretical expert on something, or make a career dealing in the practical applications. I think if you are considering this work in the field for a couple years and if something really catches your interest get a PhD which the company might even sponsor.

Then again I am talking from humanities experience and I believe a PhD in science and industry is a completely seperate issue

@carp

Of the 38 courses I took as an undergrad, 31 directly applied to my major (EE) or my minor (math). That's 82%.

Even so, EE is a big field, so I took courses in Electronics, Communications, Microwaves, Power, Devices, and Computers Hardware.

All of my Master's courses have been focused on Simulation and Devices. I've taken 4 courses on Simulation and Math, 1 course on Device Physics, and 2 courses in Fabrication. So, you can see, even the Master's is very broad.

I started off thinking I wanted to do serious Simulating, but now I want to move more towards devices physics and fabrication.

So, I'd say I've narrowed down my field of interest as quickly as possible, but it's a big area (as I know ChemE is, as well), so it takes some time.

@abg, okay, then I had it wrong with the calculation, I was neglecting my minor, simulation, and math courses in my calculation (which do take up another 35%). Master subjects were aimed at control of and dynamic behavior of systems, some 'classical' ChemE subjects as process simulation, reactor engineering, and separation technology were in my opion left untouched (only two subjects in each were offered).