It's very civilized.

http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2009/04/china-v-japan-the-packed-train-factor/13064/

Yes it does Putin, a great social order, I can't help but think if Marx were alive today he would be heralding Japan as the bastion of Socialism, not Russia or China.
A truly Socialist society can only occur when democracy and human rights are respected and upheld.

Marx also had high hopes that western Europe would be the leading light of socialism.

Clearly that has never been the case. Western Europe seems to love their bourgeois overlords a bit too much.

Very interesting ag, sounds like all of that early indoctrination of social norms has left some red-blooded testosterone filled males with a dirty little habit. I hope to see a resounding fightback from Japanese women in years to come but maybe part of the problem is that women complaining is frowned upon and socially discouraged.
Women all over the world still battle for equality in the eyes of the law, here is another example, I would advise grab him by the balls and twist hard.....

Patriarchy remains a global problem

Meh - the point I was trying to make was about packing the trains; I didn't read the bottom part of the article and not really sure why the author put that in there.

Have you seen any of these videos on youtube on the crammed rails? It is for sure the culture to fit in (literally) and it's acceptable and they wait in line for this. They must meet the per train quota for maximum efficiency.

A few people I know have lived in Japan and they beam every time they talk about the experience. They always say it's the nicest, politest, and cleanliest place they've ever been.

ag - more importantly, what can we learn from the Japanese and how can we introduce this into our society (not the groping, the social order).
They use the word indoctrination which makes it sound bad but then probably no worse than making school kids swear allegiance to the national flag and sing the national anthem in schools. If that was the answer we would all be doing it but it obviously is not.
There is certain aspects of Japanese society that we could import to make Western culture much more amenable, but before anything can change we have to be brave enough to admit we have a problem, if we fail in that we won't go looking for solutions.

I agree that the orderly, respectful part of their culture could benefit the west, but I'm not sure that the answer to do this is public education. In Japan it's the employers and families that lead this (the adults) and that in turn is driven into the next generation at home and reinforced at school.

I would conjecture if the west tried to implement aspects of this they would go in the reverse order and it would fail -- they would first try to persuade the children before the adult, and the kids would see a hypocrite parent at home and give it no credit.

ag - are you admitting defeat and saying that Western culture could never be as ordered or civilized as the Japanese ... the first step to any change is a belief that it can be successful, without that no one would ever bother trying

Defeat? No, my point was that we couldn't implement a culture like Japan because we're too far the opposite direction. Personally, while there are great parts of that culture that I'd like to borrow, it would come at a cost to implement that I'd prefer not to give up.

To me there is value in having a culture where the nail sticks out. Much of the innovations and progress made by civilization can be attributed to a nail sticking out. Look at Da Vinci, Edison, or Martin Luther King Jr.

Even yourself and your strong opinions and mixing up the forum wouldn't be acceptable in Japanese culture, yet are you saying this is your ideal state so your voice can be muted?

Japanese are constrained by their own values, they have learnt to be polite, they are not forced to be polite .... I remember a few years back enquiring about ice cream prices from a vendor in Central Park, it was expensive so I decided not to buy, as I walked away he shouted "fuck you", I turned and re-approached him and he grabbed a truncheon in readiness of some violent altercation.
I engaged him in some meaningful conversation as to why he had sworn at me, it was surreal but a very interesting insight into 'New York culture' at that time.
I wish now I had bought that over-priced ice dream for what he taught me.