^ Agree.

I also notice I trust players more who give a realistic assessment of troubles to come. "Ok, sure, we'll fight over province X, but at least we'll have good cooperation until then". Much better than players who try to make you do bonehead moves. "I suggest you move into a neighbor's home SC while I do something really safe".

However, press styles can be radically different and I am interested to hear what outcomes other people have with other styles. Anybody?

By a large margain, I prefer misdirection to lies. It's why I try to keep good communication flowing to all the players on the board -- that way, I can try to use the grapevine to influence people without asking them directly. For example: I'm Germany, trying to keep France and England fighting. That's the perfect time to be talking to Italy -- either I can encourage an attack on France's south, to help keep England in the game, or I can offer him support against Austria to keep France safe. And now that I have a good idea what England and Italy are up to, I can feed that info to Turkey and Russia (who's been my true target all along) to get him to move how I need him to so Austria and I can gut him.

What usually ends up happening, of course, is two of my allies decide I talk too much and they team up to kill me off. But when it works, it's fun!

I just turn everyone against eachother! Is very funny, how much trust you gain after you tell the french that the EC fleet if the english is going to attack Belgium and not Brest, so he can take portugal in peace! The problem is afterwards when france and england realise you, as germany, got 11 sc and they are still fighting over belgium :) with 4-5 sc for eachother. I also get attacked sometimes for talking to much. I try not to lie but to use information to advantage. There is a saying, that lie has short legs and it will not get you very far. And usually after lieing someone, they hold this grudge on you and in the next game, they will sacrify everything to see you in pain.

The real problem with lying ... here (context is important) ... is complex. In the first place, "lying" in this game is much more "grey" than "black-or-white". Yet once you are perceived as a "liar", the response is more "black-or-white" than "grey". So no matter how you shave it ... once you push your misdirection, ambiguity, etc. too far, it is hard to recover.

In the second place, there are several topics within which "lying" can happen. You can lie about what you are considering (at least by implying that you are more open to a course of action than you really are), lie about what you are going to do, lie about why you did something, lie about what someone else told you they would do, lie (especially by omission) about what you think someone else might do, etc. Some of these are much harder to "prove" than others. More to the point, though, they are also much harder to *dis*prove if you are accused.

A lot of "what is best" really has to do with the accumulated expectations of the other six players in that particular game. If you can figure that out in time to affect your own strategy, that should work.

One of my big learnings has been working on crafting press that is subtle and more given to omission rather than overt lying. It's a razor's edge, and I am still struggling with it. I am finding that outright lies, especially very early in the game, do more to destroy potential relationships than anything else. I think that ties into what VirtualBob was saying about the response being "black-or-white."

I also try to talk early and often. All information is good information, and your influence is directly proportional to how often you communicate. I always attempt to leave some sort of loop hole for myself, either by ambiguity or omission. Even if the recipient doesn't forgive me, I like the challenge of not *lying*.

That being said, sometimes telling a whopper, and having it take, can be a lot of fun. But I avoid that unless it's going to multiple centers relatively quickly, or it is keeping me alive.

I don't know how many people think along similar lines, but I find a direct lie relatively easy to forgive. The sort of deceptive wordplay and weaselesque deception, however, I tend to look at in a very dim light.

Be honest in your lies, and give a good reason for them after, and I can work with you in the future. Smugly type with barely contained glee about how you never actually specified which support that fleet would break (or some other loophole or ambiguity) and every instinct I have will be demanding your destruction.

Lies are part of this game. Big lies, small lies, unwanted lies, unexpected lies... depends on your strategy and your character.
But communication is always important. I tend to trust more people that talk than people that don't, maybe even because they just entertain the fun atmosphere - it's a game after all, right?
I don't like to lie, but I probably do it every time during mid-game (if I get to that part) or when survival is at stake. Because of this I prefer to start up an alliance from the very beginning and build on it as I believe any country can be allied at any time, depending on the configuration of the game.

Still, the one thing that I trust most is the map. The map never lies, but always tells the truth about people's intentions. And if people are telling you that the map is lying then tell them they are the ones not telling the truth.
The map is not a lie! I'm not sure about the cake though...

'The map never lies' is a lie ;)

Depends on how you use it and who is willing to believe you. :)

I try my best not to lie. I try to get truths and spread them around my press. However, I will lie if I believe it will get me ahead at all. Even if it's just to get an Austrian or Italian army in Tyrolia, it's worth it in my opinion.

However, to make this work, you must prove yourself truthful the large majority of the time. If I'm already at war with someone, I'll let them know my exact plan as long as I've made sure they can't stop it or hinder it with that knowledge.

The best lies, though, are the lies that come after an entire game worth of truths. You've worked with someone the entire game. You're finally down to 4 players, one with just an SC left. Your ally thinks you're willing to draw after he takes this last player out, then bam, you take 2-3 of your allies SC's and cross the 18 SC line. It's wonderful!

Yes, thats the thing isnt it. The majority of times you have to *seem* truthful for any of the inevitable lies to work. VirtualBob also has a point on the level of the lie. I think everybody lies about what they may be open to consider for example - it's part of what makes press flow easily and in fact it builds relationships. If a neighbor wants me to do something and I say an outright no, they wont be willing to talk as much anymore. And I want them to talk.

Anything that stops players from talking to you is bad imho. And getting caught in a lie is a risk in that regard.

I only lied in one game, but in that game I lied to everybody! I used to use a lot of misdirection/technicalities, but I felt guilty and decided that's not good either. However--If someone I have an agreement with makes an unexpected and scary move, even if it's not a stab per se, then I consider all agreements null and void. Also if they miss more than one turn, etc.

And I don't mention that fact before the move, either.

You're so principled :-)

lol yes I am. But I did let myself go that one time, and realized it wasn't for me.