Ideal Turkey is a juggernaut where Russia gets stopped cold by a combined EG at 8-10 centers. It's great if Italy was stupid enough to attack Austria. We also like to see a France that is NOT building fleets. 4 or even 5 Turkish fleets (you have almost no land combat frontage as a turkey Jug), so dont waste time building armies early on) Turkish fleets in the Med will dominate Italy and France. This gives turkey all the momentum he needs to build up his forces, and he can easily snatch his last 4 or so SC's from Russia's back door (all of Russias units will be up north to hold back the west).

I've played twice as turkey, and soloed twice as turkey, basically in this same manner.

My ideal Turkey includes an Austria opening to Galicia and Rumania and holding in Trieste or moving it to Venice. Seeing Greece and Serbia open and getting two builds makes Turkey a formidable nation in 1902, which can easily repel a Lepanto.

I feel like these responses are largely pie-in-the-sky. A realistic ideal Turk opening is controlling black sea and either controlling or keeping an open Greece while taking Bul. As Turk, you are very likely going to see Austria and Italy team up on you for a while. So long as you get that one build (for a fleet, for goodness sake, build a fleet first chance you get), you can hold off even a dedicated A-I attack for quite a while waiting for someone to distract them or for them to turn on one another.

Also, ideally, you want to see Russia in Gal at some point in the first year and Russia keeping the fleet in Sev supporting one of his other units to Rum. This puts the pressure on Austria and gives you a good shot at seeing A-I collapse.

As Turk, most wins come from playing the waiting game and leveraging your defensive strength to make slow gains, but not dismaying over a few losses along the way.

If you're talking in strictly 1901 terms, I would say an ideal turkey is this:

Russia opens Moscow to the north, Sev to Rumania, and a bounce in Galicia. Austria opens with Budapest to Serbia, Vienna bounces in galicia, and his fleet trying to take Venice. Even his fleet going to Albania isn't that bad. Italy would likewise try for Trieste, while opening to Tyrrhenian to counter the E/F alliance that would also be ideal.

Ideal Turkey is a bum rush on Russia taking Sev in 1901, with Russia crumbling from attacks from elsewhere too. Italy attacks Austria and you swing around on him, making peace with a grateful and needy Russia, and squeeze Austria with Italy. Italy and you start fighting immediately, you both know it's inevitable, so no stab happens. But you win because Italy doesn't have your armies in the north and fleets in the south. If France helps you all the better - France knows Turkey never gets over to France. You offer him Tunis or someshit. Now finish off Russia and get Warsaw and Moscow and run like hell for the stalemate line.

Good luck.

A western triple that disintegrates sometime after pulling a lot of units to the center.

maybe pie-in-the-sky zara, but when I'm 2 for 2 with it, for me it's the norm :P

But it doesn't seem that unusual to me. Juggernaut? Frequent, especially if Turkey suggests it. Italy attack Austria? Most common opening. France focused north? Happens far more often than not. Russia getting stopped? Well, maybe I've gotten lucky there. Still, OP did say "ideal."

my ideal Turk is AH, RU & Italy that Left in a live game than no one wants to cancel ;P

My ideal Turkey is free-range, roasted, with seasonal veg, gravy, sage& onion stuffing and Yorkshire Pudding.

you forgot mint Djelly ;)P

ROFL dharm

gameID=62706

wow - Juggy heaven !

Well, if I were to vote on the ones that sounded like competent answers I'd have to +1 Yellowjacket on this one. It doesn't seem flawless but it does seem well-etched and good timing on some things. Turkey is one of the last guys to cross the stalemate line and he does so by taking the east plus one (often Marseilles or Spain).

The area that I struggle with in Turkey is that I often get rushed by 3 powers in 1901. I like the idea of a Juggernaut on paper, but often it doesn't pan out leaving me with 3 centers and dwindling.

What sorts of things do you all see Turkey talking about to their neighbors early on?

Talk to your immediate neighbours first, and try to stir up shit between italy and france as much as possible. Same with england and russia.

When I play Turkey, I'm more or less indifferent as to how Russia wants to treat me right away. So long as I don't succeed in occupying both Armenia and the Black Sea after my spring orders (which would mean I have a hugely incompetent Czar on my hands!), I can feel safe for a couple of years at least.

What I usually *most* like to see is Austria making a mistake and grabbing for Greece with support (F TRI-ALB-GRE, A BUD-SER supporting) while Italy enters Tyrolia for a supported assault on Trieste (or even a double-grab of Trieste/Venice). Sure, Austria has put the cork in my bottle for the first two years, but I rarely expect more than one 1901 build anyway.

My favorite opening for Turkey is the schizophrenic A CON-BUL, F ANK-CON, A SMY-ARM. Russia will probably end up in the Black Sea but send the fleet to capture Rumania anyhow. I can always stand myself off in Ankara for the fall (leaving options to build a supported fleet on either coast over the winter) or, if my diplomacy has gone truly sour, support my own hold in Bulgaria while returning Armenia to Ankara.

The best situation, though, still is to watch Italy and Austria claw each other's eyes out long enough to take over Greece and then Apulia. Then it's curtains.

West in chaos (interpret as you wish)
Italy attacks France
Austria attacks Russia
Russia leaves Black Sea open and moves both armies North thinking we have an Eastern triple.

Turkey picks up Greece, Bulgaria, and Sevastopol (with Austrian support)

Not realistic, but it would be nice.

I open to Black Sea, Bulgaria, and Constantinople 95% of the time, and I don't think it is as much what happens in the south that matters. What you want to see is a Western Triple. Then you are guaranteed a direct path to the end game and likely the ability to turn someone like Italy into your "forward troops" to help you get the solo.

England and Turkey should always want to ally with Germany and Austria respectively.

Over and above the juggernaut, eh? It seems the general austrian game would tend to side with russia over the turk. After all, any AT alliance where one person desires the win would have to end in war. After russia is defeated, it makes it hard for turkey to move on germany due to distance, and straining to sail past austria into italy and france, even in draw situations uenless the turk is content with 8 units.

Grr, darn reply button. I was going to ask you to clarify those statements lando.

btw im a big SW buff myself. have you ever played the role-playing game (not video game).

@cteno: i hadnt seen the schitzo opening played effectively (as you call it) until recently when i checked a profile on someone to check thir reliability to DMZ the BLA and the opening was played more successfully than id seen traditional openings played bar-none. Its something i intend to try given the right opportunity and its nice to hear someone state that they had success with it as well.

Until recently i had chalked up any opening outside the standard one as useless. Well put.