Your nation has been a swear word to some Americans ever since you refused to support their invasion of Iraq.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKS0yISz6xQ

d31 what kind of a nonsense comment is that?

I agree with hammac, words fail me.

I mean, like it's a sane political point of view to want your president not speaking French, I believe whoever still supports the other clowns in the Republican race (other than Romney) completely disqualifies himself for life at this point.

So - to invade Iraq was a good thing - hmm - that's another subject entirely - and I'm British but living in France.

The best thing I can say about it is that it would be a solid pun on any Comedy Central show. I bet he also has a passport as well!

I think you misinterpret me, red. I agree it's ridiculous. Similarly, I hope you don't mean that by supporting any candidate someone can "disquali[fy] himself for life".

In d31's defense, his opinion is shared by nearly every member of the Republican Party; hence, the article.

I really need to think more about how my comments can be (mis)interpreted, and not assume anyone will view youtube videos I link to. For the record, I do not now, nor have I ever supported the war in Iraq. Also, I think the criticism of Romney is patently ridiculous.

ok - sorry d31 - didn't view the vid.

I liked the vid although Maher was significantly exagerating the awesomeness of France :)

No d31 I'm not watching the vid at work, but what I meant to say is that the video is made because of some grudge the US is carrying for not being supported. I'm saying that something as blatantly stupid as attacking a candidate for being able to speak French doesn't deserve this kind of rationale, but to be treated as it is: COMPLETELY INSANE. :)
As for 2ndWhiteLine: that only discredits d31.

Ow bad mistake there: "meant to say is that the video on Romney is NOT being made ..."

"As for 2ndWhiteLine: that only discredits d31."

So it would, if I actually believed it was in any way justified. Once more, to clarify my position: the French are a great nation, and I cannot see how being associated with them could be considered a bad thing. Those that think "it's French" is valid criticism of anything are dishonest, insane or grossly misinformed.

It doesn't discredit d31, it discredits the entire Republican party in the eyes of the global community.

Yeah that's what I mean. I think averagewhiteboy made a good post about them already, no need to redo it.

But doncha know if it ain't Scottish, it's crap?

Chaque fois. Mon dieu. Les republicans ne peuvent plus me surprendre.

Maintenant je parle le français, bien que je sois américain. Est-ce que ça veut dire que je suis traître???

oui :(

Not going to get into a pissing match about the relavite benefits of France vs other nations, but one line struck me on this thread:

"We continue to be staggered by the number of Americans we see here in France who can't speak a word of the language."

Top languages in the world:
Mandarin
Spanish
English
Hindi-Urdu
Arabic
Bengali
Portuguese
Russian
Japanese
Punjabi

***

Why would you expect people to speak French? Languages are not my strong suite, but I attempted to learn Spanish in my younger years, but never really considered learning French.

Fully granting that in many nations it is common for people to speak multiple languages, but it's far less common in the states - and, realistically, it doesn't negatively impact the vast majority of people.

Bien sûr, Thucy.
Soyez prudent!

One thing to note, btw, strat, is that the list you are quoting is *native speakers* of those languages, which, while an important stat, is not everything.

French is one of the most popular second languages right up there with English and Spanish. And if you count second language learners, you add in like half of Africa, which is excluded from the count you mention.

French remains an important language from an international perpective. It's like an alternative lingua franca to English. Outside of Latin America or anglophone countries, if you want to try to talk to any old person, and they don't speak any English, you'd be well served to try French next.

I have found, contrary to the opinion of most Americans (who have next to know exposure to French) that out in the globe, the UN, Oceania, Africa, the Middle East, wherever, knowing French is useful.

The reason is clear enough. 2nd place for biggest imperializer goes to France.

In international institutions for example French is a big deal. EU, UN, WTO, IMF, and so on. In fact it has at some point been said, I think:

"English is the language of business, French is the language of diplomacy."

I'm not trying to say that, in terms of second languages, English isn't far and away the most popular. It definitely is the most-learned language worldwide. But if you, you know, already speak English and look to learn a second, French is a good one. The exception is if you are somehow connected to Latin America and expect to spend time there more than other parts of the world, in that case Spanish is a better bet.

But most other languages save maybe Arabic are fairly mono-country languages. Yeah I can learn Hindi, but what good will it do me in Russia? What good will Chinese do me in South Africa?

But you go out in the world with English and French and in the world's cities it won't be hard to find someone you can speak to.

"The exception is if you are somehow connected to Latin America and expect to spend time there more than other parts of the world, in that case Spanish is a better bet."

Or if you live in a region with a heavy Latino/Cuban/Peurto Rican population like Miami, LA, NY, Cincinnati... :-)

Puerto Rican - It helps if you spell the nation correctly as well. :-)

NJ also Draug :) I am Puerto Rican :P

Well, we all know NJ is the arm pit of NY. :-P I always think NYC when I think PR because of my favorite American musical, West Side Story.

Well hey Draug I live in Texas and I'm from Houston where Latinos are the majority.

Still, most of the them speak English quite honestly. That does not, you are right, change the fact that if you plan on never leaving the US, Spanish is the most useful second language you can learn.

OHHH fight words Draug, lol. I guess you could call it NY's armpit, but I have more than 43 cousins that live in NJ. :P

I think you kinda made my pointm, Thucky:

"I have found, contrary to the opinion of most Americans (who have next to know exposure to French) that out in the globe, the UN, Oceania, Africa, the Middle East, wherever, knowing French is useful."

The relevant point here is "next to no exposure to French". It's usefulness on the world stage notwithstanding, Americans don't learn French because they don't see a *need* to learn French. That is not a slam on the French people or language, it's just the nature of what languages tend to be prioritized by schools in the states.

So, back to the first statement I responded to, Americans don't tend to speak French because our second-language focus is usually on languages we expect to be exposed to. I don't speek Latin or Esperando either.

"We continue to be staggered by the number of Americans we see here in France who can't speak a word of the language. Simply expecting all other nations to speak American is yet another example of the arrogance of so many.

Now to find that it is a sign of a good potential president that he doesn't take the trouble to speak a few words of a foreign language .... well words fail me!!

But then as Gore Vidal once said "Any American who is prepared to run for president should automatically, by definition, be disqualified from ever doing so. " "

Staggered that people want to visit your country? I know its shocking to a frog like you but there are hundreds of other languages in the world, and dome americans that do not speak yours want to see your country. I have never been to France but I tried to speak dutch when I went to their country and all I got was dirty looks and answered in English. If someone demands you speak English that is arrogance, if someone asks if you speak it because you don't speak french it isn't. If you encounter people doing the former I apologize, if you encounter people doing the later and are offended then perhaps you should ask who is really arrogant.

*should be if someone asks if you speak English because they cannot speak French

And in case that doesn't work for you, I am sure you would be glad to know that your countrymen are quite obnoxious tourists in their own right. Anyone who tries to walk through New York with a group of French tourists in front of them would understand.

"if you want to try to talk to any old person, and they don't speak any English, you'd be well served to try French next."

When would this ever be an issue? Just wait a bit and the problem will solve itself.

I try to pick up enough of a language I vist so I can be polite (bitte, danke, etc), get aorund, order from a menu while roughly knowing what I'm getting (although why Germans say pommes frites instead of some variation of kartoffel for "french fires" I'll never know), and know which way is the entrance and exit for people and cars. Oh, and to know how to find the hotel, airport, train station, and bathroom. :-)

*french fries... not fires. :-)

@Draug

Germans get a lot of words from France.

Yeah, but they co-opted the entire phrase when they have existing words for fry/fries/fried and potatoes.

Sometimes when I read these discussions, I wonder what is being argued. You all seem to be on nearly the same page. And I agree with anyone who advocates for Americans learning a second language, or third (but then, as an aspiring philologist, I'm a bit biased ;)

Well dubmdell actually yeah but I believe it's good that it's being spoken out that we're on the same page. The other day there was a politician in Holland - and I'm embarrassed to say this as it's a new low in my nation's politics, thank God only at the regional level - who called a politician of muslim decent "A piece of Halal-prepared meat that was vomited out, from a Turkish pig". I don't even know what that means anymore. It seems like nowadays you can just say about anything about anyone and it falls under "freedom of expression". I just want the character redhouse that I invented for online game playing to reflect how disappointed that makes me in the political class in its entirety.

Well, strat, what I was sort of implying is that French is a world language and the fact that Americans don't get any exposure to it is more a symptom of our self-imposed exile - a bad thing - than it is because it wouldn't serve us well to learn it.

French is an international language, and the paucity of americans that speak it fluently is a handicap. I mean, it serves me well, because it puts me in higher demand, but, you know, tragedy of the commons.

And, if you like to read books, it opens up a large number of works you can read in the original. Perhaps the only better language to learn (outside English) to read great works in the original is Latin or Greek, or, again, Spanish.

Descartes, Pascal, Camus, Sartre, Bourdieu, Foucault, Montesquieu, etc etc

And abge, it would be a problem if you ever travel anywhere.

"Perhaps the only better language to learn (outside English) to read great works in the original is Latin or Greek, or, again, Spanish."

How refreshingly Eurocentric.

There is a fine line between acknowledging that the world has been made in the West's image and embracing it as the best outcome that could have occurred.

I am in the former camp. The fact of the matter: important (as measured by influence) literature mostly comes from the West. The same with languages. The international languages are Latin languages because speakers of those languages conquered the world by force. That shouldn't stop us from learning those languages so that we can talk to people. In the same vein none of that will stop me from reading Sima Qian or Sun Tzu or Zhuangzi or the Upanishads or Avicenna or the Popul Vuh.

I tried Sun Tzu but I'm not winning diplo-games with it.

The trouble with learning French is that by doing so you risk at some point encountering the works of Baudelaire and understanding them. A fate worse than death if ever there was one.

Russian is great for reading books in their original language. So many great works in Russian.

Understanding Baudelaire is a delight compared to dealing with business correspondence in French. Despite its utilitarian nature, it's comparable with bureaucratic or diplomatic documents because of the polite, indirect way of saying that the other party is full of morons :) I mean, it's cute to read a typical example of "we were surprised" which basically means "we were utterly pissed" but for a non-native speaker, failing to decypher the less obvious messages might end up in nasty surprises... Still, I guess it helps when dealing with Japanese or Chinese, or when writing very angry letters to dictators ;)

"Simply expecting all other nations to speak American is yet another example of the arrogance of so many."

Well, for starters, with the exception of the occasional drunken bum who might shout "Speak 'merican, damnit!" we speak ENGLISH, not "American"...

Or do the Mexicans not speak Spanish but rather "Mexican?"

In addition, I must say...

Sorry, but this is one reason why, while I hope to travel to England, Canada, Germany, Austria, Italy, Israel, and such someday, France is far down the list...I've heard numerous professors and Army friends and whoever else who have traveled to France, and they have all, almost without exception, said they were greeted friendly in the above countries when they went, even if they spoke English only or butchered the French language when they did try and speak it...

But DARE speak English and not French--and fluent French at that--in France, I'm told, and the looks and poor service and reception you will get...

Maybe it's not true, just going off of what I've heard, but honestly, sir, your statement DOES seem to back that accusation up a bit.

English is a widely-used language; by COMPARISON (not that caps-locked word for emphasis here) French no longer is.

English, Mandarin, Spanish, and then probably Arabic are the four most important languages today (I'd include a language from India in there, but at the risk of repeating the folly I just chastised and calling the language "Indian" when it clearly isn't, I don't know which language, if any, to put for the region, there are so many different languages and dialects...)

It's NOT that Americans are too lazy to be bilingual.

I, for example, live near Los Angeles, so it's a bit of a necessity to know at least a few basic Spanish words and phrases...I'm not at all fluent and probably couldn't write 90% of this post again with their Spanish equivalents, but I know enough to ask where someone or something is, or ask the time, say thank you, please, excuse me, ask someone's name, etc.

By contrast...I have yet to run into a Frenchman in Anaheim or Glendale or Downtown LA.

And for all the different people there are in New York, Chicago, Miami, Washington, and so on, I don't think most Americans in ANY metropolitan area would ever need to know French...New Orleans is the closest I can think of, but even there, it's not a deal-breaker, I'd imagine (correct me if I'm wrong, President Eden, if you drop by) if you can't speak it.

"Now to find that it is a sign of a good potential president..."

Why...because he can speak French more fluently than Jean-Luc Picard ever could?

If you find he has other reasons for being a potentially-good president, fine, I'm not here to debate politics with you on that, I suppose...I would ask why a Frenchman would support a candidate who runs under the same Republican banner that saw "FRENCH fries" suddenly become a dirty word just because your nation had the unspeakable audacity to say "No, we'd rather NOT get involved in a war in an absurdly-divided desert wasteland in Arabia for nine years, thank you, and you probably shouldn't either" but I digress.

@Obi - Mexican is a distinct dialect of Spanish and American a distinct (actually several) dialect of English.