Yeah. well, sporting. It's Diplomacy, remember. Threatening to give away centers is a last resort in my opinion, and I don't use it often.

Metagaming however, is wrong. It's wrong!

It's a tool of last resort generally but it is acceptable so long as it's not intended for point inflation or meta-gaming.

If it is across games (as you describe it) this is clear metagaming - and this is actually not allowed and might get these people a ban. If you are certain maybe you can post a new thread, or send an e-mail to a moderator. It would be good to be very certain before you start that road.

Otherwise - yes, it is definitely OK in certain situations - for example:
1. You let someone take your centers and win faster in order to avoid elimination

2. It's a WTA game, someone pissed you off (whether it was because of bad language, or because you just happen to hate people called X - does not matter), you have no chance to win/draw, but no risk for elimination either (e.g. your result will be the same) and you decide to help the other guy - that's ok. Not very mature, but ok :)

3. It's a low-pot PPSC game, 4 players left, call them 11, 10, 9, and 4. Two of the players (11 and 9) are ok with a 4-way draw. The other two (10 and 4) do not agree - they are TUR and IT holding a stalemate line - and insists that the others two start fighting. After about 10 turns of senseless standoff player 9 starts giving centers away until there's a draw, or player 11 wins.

There're probably other situations also - I've personally done it three times IIRC (the scenarios above) - still think it was the right thing to do.

If they are truly metagaming, then it is worng, but this could be coincidence. I've given away my centers to a nation who, though he didn't help me much, didn't stab me or lie to me. I was going to lose, there was no way to avoid it as the other player, who I tried to reason with, was unreasonable. So I made certain his demands and insults provided tools to his enemy. He won in the sense that I was eliminated, but I went out on my own terms by giving everything to the other guy and, in the end, the offensive player lost the war.

In the vast majority of situations it's unsportsmanlike conduct. It's not strictly illegal unless it's multi accounting or metagaming but I would definitely say it's unsportsmanlike.

I normally give way my last SC to an ally if an enemy is going to take it anyway.


http://www.phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=8151

See austria+Italy

It is neither against the rules nor unsportsmanlike. If you chose to allow your people to become vassals, that is your choice. Sometimes, giving away centers helps solidify an alliance, other times it goes to deprive the enemy from taking them. Either way, it is your nation to do with as you choose. Ther is no "sportsmanship" in diplomacy. If someone pisses you off that much, then they are a lousy diplomat and must del with what their dishonesty or unwillingness to bend causes. In other words, they screwed themselves.

I don't want to judge the particular game in question, but in general giving away centres is absolutely normal and it occurs in many if not most of games.

Oh. Sorry, I wasn't thinking of that. I thought he was referring to someone who suicided by giving away their SC's. It's definitely a legitimate diplomatic tactic to give away some of your SC's. I'm not so sure about the first situation though.

If you can't stop the defeat, why not make certain your enemy gets nothing? It's the scorched earth approach and has been used in time of war since immemorable. This is diplomacy as it relates to war. Again I argue there is no such thing as "sportsmanship" in war. I'd rather be a vassal to an ally than a slave and victim to an enemy.

As B in this case, I have my own opinion, but will wait until the game in question is complete to give it

When a dominant player is one center away from winning--and can get that center with ease--and instead decides to trade centers with another weaker player to allow him to destroy another player and deny them a finish and points (which you remember are needed to continue play in other games) is the kind of tactic that caused me to leave this version.

Hey that happens in F2F games too.

Ok, since I've entered what I believe to be my final set of moves, I'd like to address the accusations the primary posted laid out:

#1 - I cannot control the behavior of A, but I don't consider it 'unsporting' to, when faced with a hopeless cause, give your centers to the person who has screwed you over the least. Italy, in this case, took over for a CD nation in a very poor strategic position. I chose to work with him instead of hammering him into the ground to prevent exactly what Turkey faced - him giving land to my enemy since he certainly couldn't make progress against me.

#2 - While it is apparently true that I shared a different game with the player in question, this was a one-hour phase game that I unwisely entered, and took *far* longer than I anticipated. Instead of completing my planned assault on Italy, I *fell asleep* - and let many of the players know this in advance. I have a job that frequently requires me to get up at 4:30 AM, not to mention a 14 month old child - staying up until 2 AM playing a game just doesn't happen for me any longer.

#3 - if there is someone with a potty-mouth in our exchanges, sir, it is you, not I.

#4 - as I just started a new contract, my time is sharply limited. As England in the game in question is going to hit 16 centers this round, I asked him to take two of mine to end the game. Why Turkey is bitching about this when it means it's two fewer of *his* that will be taken is completely beyond me. He's in a completely hopeless position, and seems to feel this is my fault somehow.

What *really* seems to bother him is that his attempts to turn England and I against each other have failed miserably. Rather than being an example of "metagaming", it's an example of a strong alliance, and a weak player who has little to offer to motivate me to break my word - especially with the fleet strength he has built up. What, are those fleets just going to hang out in the Black Sea if I took him up on his offer to stab England? Please.

Its just a beginner response to game hardship.