I'd say f2f-gaming is a lot more complex, although not always more difficult. It's a lot easier (for me) to be objective and clear-minded when I don't know the other players and have 24-hour turns, though.

I'd say f2f is for the real diplomats, and the internet version is for me whom is more of the conspiring-bureucrat-type. ;)

In ftf games its a whole lot easier to screw up, writing your orders incorrectly or even forgetting to order units.

Face to Face vs PBeM
This is like the difference between nibbling on stale bread in a cold dark lonely prison cell compared to an intimate diner with Jennifer Anniston as the Boston Pops plays in the courtyard out of sight behind walls of the most extensive wine racks ever filled.

Face to Face is the way this game was designed to be played. It calls upon the totality of your skills, be they tactical, strategy, negotiation, reading people, speed of the read, awareness of the subtle minds' shifts, operation under time pressure, combining social and psychological skills as well as a full understanding of the relationship of the game in question within any greater dynamic be it a tournament or a social event.

In a Face to Face game you have to master yourself first, and move about the room(s) holding in your mind the ever updated multi dimensions of the players, their personalities goals and perception of their skills and self awareness. You can glance at the board at the end of an adjudication and the pieces seem to fade into an image of a distant galaxy each one with swirl of arms of possibilities within a universe of gravitational fields that you can shift and compact to extend or contract with a word, a gesture or subtle pause between reflections that build for each other player a different view encased as they are in a tight world of their own interest as seen through the astral planes of your creation. For you instantly know where you want them all to move to and how to get them there. Then when the evening drifts on , the map and pieces, cast no shadow and almost becoming irrelevant to the flow of the game you can look back and remember a time like no other that even those who have not grasped the final center still recall a wonderful night that is without compare in the gaming world.

I love the game Face to Face.

Edi: Now with 34% more zen.

only 34%?

Well, he had a pretty high zen-level before. A 34% increase of THAT is pretty impressive.

Truth.

Well there still E-mail and Zine Diplomacy

> ...intimate diner with Jennifer Anniston

i'm sticking with internet

I find that I completely agree with Edi. I've given this online version what I think is a fair shake and just realize that it's not my bag. Since backstabbing is so easy to pull off it's no surprise that it seems to be the order of the game here much more than honorable alliances. Anyway, good luck to those who keep this site going and thanks to the admins who work hard at it. Adios.

So Keblelcol write to me and let us see if there is a group event near you.
EdiBirsan AT astound DOT net.

why don't you just write out the email addres? instead of the DOT or AT

Spambots can't pick it up as easily this way.

I am not that sophisticated at the whole email scene but I was advised to put address that way because it is harder for spam readers to get it...

keblecol, that is the case in the lower pot games- its a dog eat dog world down there but playing with better players in higher pot games does lead to some good alliances.

ah okies

How high does the pot have to go before the riff raff are blown out. I have seen some games with what I consider high buyins that are being played with known riff raff. People that wouldn't survive 5 moves in a F2F because they only think it is about deception. You know they never follow through and are agents of confusion and really don't understand the long term strategies. The game does resemble risk and that is a real putdown from a longtime diplomacy player. It is true those players would not do well in F2F. I have had a number of games were the interplay was good and the convenience of play online makes it great. I don't have time to commit to a live game anyway. So this site is wonderful even with the risk of playing with jerks. I will just have to earn enough points to get into diplomacy heaven and join a game with experienced players.

I suggest you don't wait for a number of points that eliminate jerks, but actively search the "non-jerks" players.

Make a thread in the forum, and I'm sure many will join, even with a low buy-in (wich wouldn't be necesary anyway, because you could easily invest 100 Ds, and I wouldn't consider that low)

Hell, if you get lucky, you might even get Edi over there to play along, and I guess you won't get a less jerk player than that...

Anyway, if you want to try something like this, I'll be up for it.

The biggest thing that is unrepresented here is this:

In real life you start to realize that the same two or three countries go into rooms with eachother after every turn, so you can guess at alliances easier.

Also just the sheer fact that you can hold sort of conferences, like regional summits between, say, England/Germany/France/Russia or Italy/Austria/Turkey/Russia

clark points out the catch 22: since the lower games is full of illogical backstabbing, it's hard to build up the points for a more satisfying game with better players.

keblecol, Edi is probably right, but you agree with him for the wrong reasons

Just find the right players, people!

Make a thread in the forum and a passworded game!

It's not that hard!

gee, thanks for clearing that up alamothe...:-)

Xapi: you have to know who those people are first

No.

You make a thread in the forum explaining what you expect from players, and ask only those who agree overall with your view to join the game. You ask for emails to send the game password.

You may get one player who doesn't fit the criteria but wanted to bother you anyway, if you do, you look for a seventh player for a new game.

I mean, look, take me, TheClark and you, that's three players. I think there may have been more in this thread complaining about the same thing. Send an email to Edi, he must love to get them with how much he posts his adress, and if he's in, you've got four.

Really, it can't be that hard!