All I have to say is, if they are not good guys and they are having a bad influence on you, you should not hesitate to leave.

Otherwise have fun and do good.

I was in one as an undergrad. Couldn't have had a better experience. These guys will be the best, closest friends you will ever have in your life. Just make sure your work is done before you have fun and everything works out fine. Especially since your pledge period is so short.

I work with one asshole who, even in his thirties, reminisces about abusing pledges and thinks it is funny. No thanks. College Greeks are asshole mother fuckers to the last.

That's one guy. There are literally millions of people who were in fraternities in college. Generalizing like that with any other group would have people call you prejudiced.

So far I have yet to be hazed at all, and while I am not so blind as too think there wont be anything, I do not think there will be anything serious. So far the best days have been the rush week activities where they were recruiting.
Also, the membership in the fraternity is at its lowest point since its founding way back when, so losing any of their potential pledges is a bad idea for these guys.
They are really cool and nice, and I hope it continues to be that way, but I am keeping in mind to leave at anytime as well as having all my work done before the fun.

ePICFAeYL: As I advised you in my reply to your previous thread (assuming there wasn't someone else asking for college advice), do not try something out just to "check it out." Have the willpower and build the character to do what you want. If you dig alcohol-induced memory-loss, enjoy watching your peers abuse freshman girls and can't stop beaming when you think of the eternal bass that will keep you up night after night, then by all means, do what you love. But it is not a 'good idea' to casually enter a frat/frat house because you think it might be fun or might help you in the future.

Except that the frat is nothing like that? Haha. A lot of people have very opinionated views on Frats, and while I am sure there are some frats like that, these guys are much more respectable. They do runs for cancer, they do drag shows for gay/lesbian/transgender rights and to raise money, they have fundraisers for everything.
If it turns out to be like that, then there is nothing anyone can do to make me stay there and be a part of that. While some people, as you say it "Dig alcohol-induced memory-loss", I am not one of those people and will not tolerate it being insinuated about me. Maybe be a little more open minded about Frats, and like Invictus said, do not generalize and become prejudiced.

ePICFAeYL: The frats at my university support all the same or similar community service and activist programs that Theta Chi does at your university. That does not change their social priorities or lifestyle in the least. You can always say that you will leave later if Theta Chi proves not to be an exception to the rule, but the real question is why are you joining in the first place. I reiterate, do what you want to do. If you don't enjoy binge drinking, you probably won't be comfortable in Theta Chi.

And don't just not like binge drinking. You're insulted by the very notion of it. To be clear, alcohol use is only one aspect you will likely find objectionable.

I forget what I said, but I have a few personal opinions on frats. First off is that no frat should be able to do fall freshman pledges. Its simply taking advantage of the fact that most people don't have connections yet. That's why many schools - mine included - don't allow it. So I would've said wait until Spring.

But secondly, even though pretty much every frat does charity work, I've yet to meet a frat guy who hasn't done something along the lines of what JECE and Draug were saying. But, I tend not to associate with frat guys, so I don't know the whole sample size. There are a few frats that have better reputations than others, though I don't know Theta Chi. I swear to god I would have docked you points had you said Sigma Chi though.

@ePICFAeYL, I'm not sure what your school is like, but I recently graduated and ran an engineering council that oversaw every organization (fraternity/professional/etc) in the engineering college. Do fraternities have benefits, sure, 100%. They will help you build connections, teach you how to deal with idiots, some of the better ones will connect you to companies in your field. But, non fraternity professional organizations will do that more effectively. If your plan is to pledge I strongly encourage you to at least consider going to some other organizations meetings to see if what they offer is any worse or better then the fraternity. Because while fraternities aren't necessarily negative there are very few that will look as good on a resume or be as well respected as a national professional organization in your field. With one huge added benefit. A fraternity is judged by it's worst member. It's judged by that jackass who looks at the girls weirdly, the one who hazes the members, the one the professors all hate. If there's anyone like that in the group you're pledging too then I strongly recommend you reconsider or you risk having your academic and professional reputation being damaged by association with this group.

You're arguing that your fraternity doesn't do anything negative, but you need to make sure that you know that for sure before you join, because it's your responsibility to make sure that you don't associate with people who are going to bring negative attention to you. You mentioned that your fraternity has the lowest membership in years. Have you taken a few minutes to ask around outside the brothers and ask why that is? If this fraternity is as great as you're saying it should be the one with the largest membership on campus.

So I'm not saying don't join, but make sure you understand how your fraternity is viewed by other people on campus, how it's individual members are viewed, and why it lost membership in recent years.

Moral of the story:

Some Greek life people are assholes. Some Greek life people aren't.

Some people are assholes. Some people aren't.

Yeah, it fits. Greek life has absolutely no effect on who is an asshole and who isn't. That comes down to the *person* - amazing how that works.

ahahaha. sigma chi. what is the deal with frats are they supposed to maintain a consistent reputation across all chapters? i remember my buddy was telling me about his hazing but they officially were not hazing anyone, so his public disclosures could be related to his getting "punishment" where he had to wear some button or something, i think it was like a triangle or something... i am not sure what the punishment was, but i feared for his anal virginity.

sidenote, what is with those dues you pay? seems like you are paying people to be your friends...

but i do remember some stories. some kidnap week where the new guys were in a battle against the established ones. and they would just grab some guy, strip him naked, and ducktape him to some pole in a public area (copious duct tape used) then leave him there.

haha, or another one where they grabbed this guy out of the shower in the middle of winter, threw him outside naked in below freezing temperature and locked the door. ah.... good times.

and then there was some engineering fraternity that was not official anymore because they were kicked out of the official system for admitting a non white member back in the day. probably some asian guy.

and this other one that consistently gets rape accusations...

ah... what a beautiful history, a proud tradition.

@Bo - And we are judged by the people we *choose* to associate ourselves with. So you *choose* to associate with the assholes in the Greek community and you are judged to be amongst them - amazing how that works.

As you say, a lot of people have strong opinions about frats. If you're in one, you will have lifelong bonding and friendship to your brothers as Invictus describes. Your fellow Greeks will view your membership positively. Many people will view it negatively. You need to do what's right for you, but realize that there is a lot of anti-Greek sentiment out there.

I'll give you benefit of the doubt that you found a great group of guys who defy the frat stereotype. My wife thought the same when she pledged. Within a few years her sorority's chapter folded due to lack of membership. They indeed had a core of "nice girls", and the rest of the system wasn't interested.

Draug, there are plenty of assholes. You don't have to look in frats to find them. Sometimes they just congregate there.

" I strongly encourage you to at least consider going to some other organizations meetings to see if what they offer is any worse or better then the fraternity."

It's not an either/or thing. You can easily be involved in Greek life and other organizations on campus. My chapter even encouraged it to the point it was almost mandatory. It's not like "Oh well, I went Greek so now I can't be in pre-dental society or Young Democrats." Not at all. Pretty much the opposite.

I like how you people just gloss over the charity aspect. I guess raising thousands of dollars for good causes isn't legitimate if those same people also throw a party once in a while.

As for there being some stigma that follows you, I've literally only ever encountered anti-Greek prejudice on this site. And, let's be honest, a website about a strategy board game isn't going to give you a representative sample of society. In my experience the people who really dislike fraternities and sororities are simply ignorant of how it all really works.

Like anything, if you're not an idiot about it Greek life can be one of the most rewarding parts of your life.

"So you *choose* to associate with the assholes in the Greek community and you are judged to be amongst them - amazing how that works."

I guess then we can pigeonhole you, Draugnar, in with the stereotype of computer programmers as fat, pimply sexual deviants/novices who are unhealthily obsessed with pop culture and socially undeveloped. Not so nice when it's thrown back at you, huh?

You're all really making too much of Greek life. It's something you do in undergrad, make friends and memories, and move on. Like anything else you do in college.

"You're all really making too much of Greek life. It's something you do in undergrad, make friends and memories, and move on."

Sadly not everyone gets to move on from it...

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2013/08/new-claims-filed-in-lawsuit-over-fraternity-hazing-death-at-niu/
http://www.sfexaminer.com/sanfrancisco/fraternity-booted-from-sf-state-after-party-death-as-school-looks-into-hazing-allegations/Content?oid=2508419
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-12-18/news/chi-charges-filed-in-niu-hazing-death-20121217_1_fraternity-david-bogenberger-dekalb-county-authorities
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-07-24/mother-of-golf-prodigy-in-hazing-death-defied-by-fratpac.html

While these are extremes, they still happen. Greek life is not as harmless as you're trying to make it sound. Do a google search, there is massive amounts of anti greek life sentiment all around the country.

As you said, extremes. Extremes happen in or out of Greek life. If anything, a non-Greek house party is more dangerous because there isn't the institutional memory on how to run it safely. The last thing a fraternity wants is a story like that and virtually all of them have procedures to prevent it from happening.

I can play the Google game too. Do a search and you'll find massive amounts of pro-Greek sentiment.

"Draug, there are plenty of assholes. You don't have to look in frats to find them. Sometimes they just congregate there. "

So? If you choose to associate with the system that attracts assholes, you will forever be associated *with* assholes. You are who you associate with. I went to high school with a bunch of assholes who smoked pot and drank and still haven't grown up. I had no choice in where I went to high school, but I do have a choice in *not* going to their annual "Class Reunions" where they get high and drunk and generally act like asses.

Ther are far better affiliations in academia than the Greek system. Affiliations that focus on academic excellence and the students specific major and career path. Do you think movies like "Animal House" and "Van Wilder" are complete fabrications? No. They have an element of truth about them as any campus PD cop will tell you.

Computer programmers are assholes.

Animal House and Van Wilder? See Draugnar, that's exactly the problem. You're basing all your perceptions of how people in fraternities behave from movies. I don't remember Delta house raising thousands of dollars for charity every year, or volunteering their time in the community. Van Wilder isn't even a fraternity movie, really.

If there's truth in these movies it's truth that comes from having hormone-addled young adults experiencing long-term freedom away from home for the first time, not some effect from Greek life as such. After all, universities without fraternities and sororities (like, say, Notre Dame) still have party scenes with all the problems you people hold out to be unique to Greek life, and schools with some of the craziest reputations (like Wisconsin-Madison) have relatively tiny percentages of the student body in the system.

DeVry has no party scene. :-) If it did, I'd be there at everyone with the camera phone flashing away at all the 18-22 year old boobies!

And yes, bo, we are. All of us. But, to be fair, few if any of us resemble Dennis NEdry (Wayne Knight also of Seinfeld fame) from Jurassic Park.

DeVry is a for-profit university. While I'm sure you get a fine education there, it's not the same kind of institution as a traditional university at all.

I live on a campus that's very Greek-oriented. Something like 80% of the student body is in a fraternity or a sorority. Me personally, I'm an independent. I've met very good people who are in frats and who are independent like me. I've also met, to use the term that's been prevalent through the thread, assholes in both categories. A lot of it depends on the particular organization. Perhaps the frats do attract more of the latter category, but you still can't make a generalization either way.

ePICFAeYL: You still around?

the fraternity paid to nsa to get his online activities that mentioned theta chi
after reading his webdiplomacy.net postings they threatened massive anal rape if he discussed anything about the fraternity
either that or they got him drunk and dropped him off in the wilderness and he was killed by a crazy hobo