@CF - Rand Paul made that unsubstantiated claim which was refuted by none other than Bin LAden himslef. We did put Saddam Hussein in power, but we did not arm and train Bin aden in the 80s and there is no evidence to support Rand Paul's claim at all.

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/breaking/FactCheck_US_funded_Osama_bin_Laden_says_Rand_Paul.html

Draugnar: That claim was made long before Rand Paul entered the political scene. And it's a perfectly reasonable claim to make. The United States funded the mujahideen blindly (according to Wikipedia, through the ISI) and it is very likely that Osama bin Laden benefited from that aid.

Draugnar, let me paint you a picture. Imagine that China becomes at least as powerful as the USA (it will happen eventually). In addition, a Chinese man fighting on behalf of the inhabitants of Chinese Taipei has been causing massive damage, thousands of deaths etc with well timed bridge collapses underneath trains. Unfortunately for the chinese government, the terrorist managed to flee to Manhattan before arrest. The Chinese government decide to bomb manhattan - after all, everyone else there is only collateral damage. Are you ok with this?

Sure I am as we would retalliate and if we were so weak we couldn't then we deserve to become extinct. Might makes right.

And without evidence showing we sponsored bin Laden, it didn't happen. You say there was nothing in 700,000 documents that caused potential loss of American life despite not knowing.everything in them. I say we didn't sponsor bin Laden despite supposedly blindly funding the mujahideen.

Draugnar: I know that thousands of people (including officials tasked with damage assessment) have looked over those documents for three years and found nothing in the 700,000 documents that caused potential loss for human life. You know nothing about how the mujahideen were funded and neither does almost anyone else. There is no similarity.

As for your 'might makes right' bullshit, I have to ask: is that what they taught you in the Marines?

They are people. You are literally advocating killing people for some abstract geo-political grandstanding. This is just sick.

Yes, mendax, it is sick. But that's the USA for you.

Might makes right and the Corps. Abso-fucking-lutely! Arrugh!

CIA funding: Actually it was well researched by journalists looking to fidn something for a story and they couldn't. All they found was direct donation of equipment and training. No cash amd no contact with Al-Qaeda.

"geo-political grandstanding"

What fucking perverted version of reality do you live in, anyway? Narrow-minded much?

Given that Al Qaeda was founded in 1988, and the USSR invasion of afghanistan was in 1979, it's perhaps not surprising that there was no contact with Al-Qaeda.

mendax: Not to mention the kids that are being sent to their deaths. Yes, it is all disgusting. And it really is grandstanding, because strategically and security-wise all the U. S. is doing in Iraq and Afghanistan (and elsewhere) is hurting itself.

Draugnar: The Marines are useless, just like the SA. Why aren't the marines part of the Navy like in any normal country? I think it's time to take out the long knives and rid ourselves of this abomination.

Yes, Al-Qaeda didn't exist. And the documentation for the support/funding/training for the mujahideen is still, if I'm not mistaken, classified, so I don't know what the journalists could have done. In any case, there was support everywhere around Osama bin Laden. Arabs that later worked with him in Al-Qaeda have been proven to have received U. S. aid and the Taliban would eventually came to power having benefited greatly from that aid. I'm not saying that I know for sure that Osama bin Laden received any of the training/funding/support personally, directly or indirectly, but chances are that he did in fact benefit.

@JECE - That was a stupid fucking question. It's like asking "Why aren't the Rangers p[art of the Army?" You stupid fuck, the Marines report to the secretary of the Navy. they are the elite landing force. The first to enter and the last to leave. They are the elite ground troops of the Navy, equivalent tot he Rangers. In fact, Marine Corps training is as tough as Special Forces training and most of the elite units of the other services take MCMAT training as it is the best military martial arts training in the free world (yes, we even train our allies' special forces units).

Why do you think the slogan is "The few. The proud. The Marines."? It is because we are an elite fighting force created to take beachheads that the Army Rangers and Army Special Forces (aka Green Berets) can't, just as the Navy Seals pull of the covert missions that even a small Delta Force team can't.

Rescued fifteen men today! Every one was a Green Beret!

Why are we still around? Well, let's look to Iwo Jima. Why do you think the boots on the ground were? I'll give you a hint, those weren't army boots on the ground or raising that flag! Gudalcanal? Marines!

From the halls of Montezuma to the shores of Tripoli, We will fight our country's "battles ont he land and on the sea." - The Marine Corps hymn. The oldest official song in the US military. That's right... We don't have an anthem or a theme. We have a fucking *hymn*!

No, the Marines are a truly proud service. Any one who graduates boot camp graduates proud to call themselves a Marine.

We are the President's military body guard. We escort him when he travels. We play his anthem every where he goes (note, he has an anthem, but we have a *hymn*).The Secret Service puts him first in close quarters, but they rely on *us* to have their backs and keep the whackos out, and his transits safe. We work with the Secret Service as a well oiled machine when it comes to Presidential detail. We protect the members of Congress. We guard the nations capital and all it's government buildings. Those are Army grunts you see standing at attention, they are Marines!

So the nation hasn't done away with us, nor will it ever, because we are the last line of defense and the first like of offense. We get it done!

I don't often +1 you draug, but that tribute to the USMC was worthy of it.

Thanks, philcore. The people of the US take their liberty and safety for granted. If ti weren't for the Marines, not only would our leaders not be safe, but many of the world's leaders would not. It's Marines that keep visiting dignitaries safe from harm and Marines that stand guard beside the forces of our neighbors when we visit them. Marines *are* the US's primary defense at all embassies. When you approach a U.S. Embassy in any foreign country, you will see Marines standing at the gates and guarding from the watch towers. And when the ambassadors and their families are forced to leave, some Marines surround them in an escort while others scout the route ahead and yet others stay behind to cover their exit.

I know it's hard to convey grunting sounds in text, but isn't "arrugh" the navy thing and the marines is more of an "ooh rah" ?

Nope. Ooh rah is more army. Arrugh is Marine Corps and we shorten it to more just rapid fire Arr over and over in honor of Chesty, our mascot.

Well, I must admit my knowledge of this comes only from tv, so I defer to your actual experience. But Lee Ermey "gunny" used to say it on "Mail Call" and he is all Marine, that one.

We say ooh rah on occasion, but arrugh is more commonly used as it separates us from the Army Special Forces. Mostly, ooh rah is used in quitter settings where the harsher arrugh would be disruptive. Also, if we are in agreement with another Marine, we may say "Ooh rah, Marine." But to represent solid affirmation with enthusiasm, "Arrugh!" works much better.

Now, when rappelling or sky diving or cliff jumping or something similar, we holler "Marine Corps!" as we jump/whatever.

Oh, and arrugh is almost always a stand alone statement where as ooh rah blends in to a statement better.

Draugnar: Ha ha, trolling fascist troll is fun, especially since your comments didn't answer that question at all. But in all seriousness, if the Marines encourage belief in "Might makes right." and "[those who can't retaliate militarily] deserve to become extinct" then they should absolutely be disbanded (or drastically reformed) before it's too late.

@JECE - The Marines teach "Kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out."

Draugnar, that's a quote attributed to a murderous 13th Century religious fanatic in a 13th Century work. Even in the 13th Century that man's massacres were looked at with horror and disdain. It has been 804 years and a couple weeks since Béziers fell and thousands of men, women and children were massacred. Surely we have become a little more civilized since then?

No, Jece, not really.

I thought Arr was for pirates.

The Marines face the enemy head on. When we do, no Marine gets lets behind and no enemy is shown any quarter. If they are wearing a vest or helmet, shoot them in the face. If they pull a gun, you shoot first. If your fellow Marine is pinned down, take out the enemy targeting him whatever it takes. Combat ain't pretty. combat ain't nice. People die in combat. Make certain it is *their* people who die, and not your fellow Marine brothers.

Oh, I forgot that non-Marines like to fight with the back of their heads turned to the enemy.

That has nothing to do with nuking or carpet bombing a city. Nor does it have to do with the original post: hand-cuffing women, children and the elderly behind their backs, shooting them in the head and then calling in an air strike to cover up the evidence. Nor, I dare say, does it have to do with executing enemies who have surrendered or otherwise violating the laws of war.

It's not about being weak; it's about being routinized and knowing that there are certain things which are off-limits.

Really, it's about being professional. Rampant murder sprees are not professional, no matter how many hypothetical Marines are 'saved'.