Please remember we're all on this site because we enjoy playing diplomacy. We're here to have fun. If real-life stress gets in the way of playing a game to the fullest, it's fine to pull out, as long as you try to keep the game fun for everyone else. I think LordDavion did a good job at that, and with a replacement, it should be fine.

Would it be a good idea to keep the pause for 1 extra day so players can negotiate with the new Germany?

@bas, yes I think an extra day or two is a good idea.

@everyone, please remember that the professors and TA's here are going out of their way to spend time helping the students, please repay that by using respectful language here. I understand everyone's frustration, but sadly these type of situations happen on every online gaming site I've visited. It's unavoidable and no one's fault. Till this is worked out I'm going to ask that everyone follow the original thread rules and refrain from posting in this thread unless asking non-leading questions related to the moves/diplomacy of the game so far.

In the meantime, my fellow professors and I will write up some more game general posts, such as how to use global press, and some overall game strategies.

Can everyone please
'Keep Calm and Carry On'

So I have been following the commentaries and been given the pw by hamster, but I need Germany to be force CDed to be able to join. I have limited bandwidth on the weekends, but should be able to log in around 6pm GMT or after 3am GMT, with brief windows throughout the day. PM me if you need more information.

I would appreciate the extra day to be able to catch up on press and establish relations with the players.

So I will open up the "pause break" discussion with the following questions specifically related to a new player who happens to be in the premier alliance (albeit slowly be coming the junior member). These are two questions I always struggle with in situations like this :

1. If I was Italy & England - How do so interact with the new Germany? I always find this dicey because he is obviously privy to alot of sensitive information. Do I assume its all exposed or do I assume he is sticking with the program? How can I best ensure and protect against this?

2. If I was the new Germany - Can I hedge my new free agency to get concessions from my alliance? Or does attempting to do so blow any chance of remaining in it as a trusted ally?

Im in. How can I find the userid of my TA? Ive already PMed Lord D to get his thoughts and started reading old press. Good luck to all.

LordDavison, you will be missed. Even though we had our disagreements, you are a great player and it's unfortunate to see you leave so early.

And welcome to virtuslex! I'm excited to see what you can offer to our game and can't wait to start talking with you!

@virtuslex: go to Help -> find a user. I believe your TA is mendax.

Bas, from what I remember LD telling me, it's Stackelberg.

I posted the TA assignments on the first page of this thread, Germany: TA - Stackelberg Follower.

My apologies. I was too lazy to check the thread history :)

buuuuuuump

bump. Hopefully posting commentary tonight.

Bump

well that was a painful turn, I'll have some time tomorrow to write up a post.

Bump...

Bump... (again)

Oyy, painful indeed.

Bump one more time...

Bump x4

This reminds me of when my mom would say, "Wait until your father gets home!" And I'd wait. And wait. And wait. Then, the waiting turned out to be worse that then actual punishment. Except for that one time when I set the... no, never mind. :)

I have sat down three times to write something up about that last turn, but every time I look at the board it just makes me tired. The other professors might feel the same way. I hope to get something up today.

If it helps, as a TA I always consider the professor commentary well worth it.

S 1903

I was putting this off, but since nobody else has seen fit to post, this game needs *some* commentary, much like an episode of MST3K would be terrible without Tom Servo. Like the other professors, I too groaned looking at this board. Its a mess right now. But that's a good thing - plenty of teachable moments and plenty of opportunities to learn. I will do power rankings, but take these with a grain of salt, because except for the number 1 power on the board, the rest of you have a lot of work as well as learning to do, so listen up.

1. TURKEY - I'm not sure I could find anything negative to say about Turkey's play this game even if I tried. You too Serbia, which is a fantastic step, and although you may not be able to hold it, Austria would have to go so far out of position and lose a home center to retake it that it may not even be worth the hassle. You've also made the move to make that Black Sea fleet useful, which frees up an otherwise stationary unit and also solidifies a relationship with your closest ally at this point. With no threat of a Russian stab and Austria effectively neutralized, your only worry at this point is a potential six center Italy looming in 1904, but by that point, you ought to have the jump on him.

2. ITALY - Despite jmo's predictions, you've managed to both maintain a working alliance with Austria as well as pick up what is likely going to be two builds. Very good turn. Your life will become much easier once the mess that is France gets cleaned up, and with any luck you and England can play nice and go your separate ways, since you both have pressing issues looming; in your case, a powerful Turkey is casting a greedy eye on the Ionian Sea. You've taken a risk by using Austria as your buffer, and you better hope that you can recover in time to both help your ally and prevent Turkish expansion into the Italian peninsula.

3. ENGLAND - Safe to say that the past turn was a bit of a mess. You not only have to of your centers occupied by enemy units, but you lost them due to questionable movement. I'm not convinced that the move to Gascony was entirely needed, given that the convoy to Picardy would have given you Paris regardless of what Brest did. Now, you need to retake Brest *and* convince Germany to leave Bel; otherwise, you're not guaranteed any builds this year. Luckily, you're not facing any immediate threat, but if that German move to Belgium turns out to be an actual stab, which I'm not convinced it is (yet) you may have issues. Take my advice here - don't overcomplicate things. You can't afford to be fighting three countries at once.

4. GERMANY - I urge you to also read the advice I gave England. Keep it simple. Like I said, I'm not convinced that Bur-Bel is a stab. A potential misorder maybe, but it could turn into a big gain for you should you choose to stay. Though again, much like England, you can't afford to be fighting three countries either. You're a hot mess right now and could use some direction.

5. RUSSIA - Speaking of hot messes, now we come to Russia. Lets look at the positives first. You've got a solid ally in Turkey who is showing no interest in a stab. That's a big positive. You also have no threat from Austria and a potential build to offset the loss of St. Pete. On the other hand, you've got a Germany who may not be as trustworthy as you thought, judging by his attempt to slip into Warsaw. With Germany sitting in Belgium, though, you two may have a shared interest in fighting England, so I would advise a long conversation about your goals this game and seeing if you can both catch England in a moment of weakness before its too late.

6. AUSTRIA - You may have lost Serbia, but you've put both Turkey and Russia in an awkward situation. Turkey has to support Serbia and Russia wants a build but also has to ensure Warsaw isn't taken. You may be able to salvage a center, whether it be Serbia or Greece, should you play your cards correctly and guess right this turn. The alternative is waiting on a recovery from Italy and his inevitable F Nap to save what has otherwise become a struggle for survival for you. Do you choose to wait on your ally or blow things up and hang out in Naples? Its do or die this turn for you.

7. FRANCE - This just isn't your game, unfortunately. Taking Brest was nice, hell, you may even be able to keep it if you move the right way, but you'll lose Spain in the process. Its only a matter of time, unfortunately. There is still hope, though, particularly if you can get Russia and Germany to join your cause and fight the English menace. Its a long shot, but its your only shot.

One of the big discussions before the player replacement was about what exactly England’s various moves signified. I don’t know if this year’s turns have really clarified any of that, since we have a new Germany and a set of moves that, being honest, I had a lot of trouble getting a handle on. This commentary is going to switch things up a little bit and look at grades in clumps. Hopefully that will allow me to (belatedly) answer dyager’s questions about a new player.

ENGLAND: D+
FRANCE: D
GERMANY: B+

To answer dyager’s first question, there are a lot of different ways to handle that. Let’s assume Germany has some damaging piece of information, say that one player had previously worked to harm an ally’s success by leaking information to an enemy. In that case, my immediate response (assuming you don’t just fall in love with the new player and want to work together) would be to go on the offensive. Ask an ally or two if some fabricated or partially-fabricated piece of information is true, and act mildly suspicious or even angrily insulted before you make up and affirm that, yes, I trust you as a partner in this effort, and oh by the way, what did Germany say about me? Ideally you can also do this indirectly, say, knowing that Russia and Turkey are communicating well, you pretend to get mad at Turkey, hoping it will get back to Russia and reinforce whatever you’re telling Russia. Especially for a player in a kind of difficult spot like Germany, this can create a sense that the new player is struggling for air and is already resorting to lies and half-truths. It can alter the dynamic of having a new player revealing potentially damaging information.

Anyway, this is the first turn where it looks, to me, like England is making significant errors. I assume: England talks to the new Germany, decides working together is better than the stab. Or, it never was a stab, and England commits to working with the new Germany. Maybe Germany provided some new and maybe even real information which damaged England’s relationship with Russia. Whatever the case, England has taken advantage of Russia’s weak northern position and done a one-center stab. But the effort is half-hearted and it sacrifices an ally who obviously had enough trust of England to leave the north open. Keeping the pressure on Germany, insisting Russia keep things DMZed in the north, and finishing off France would make more sense. Germany is in real bad shape and eventually Italy will do the hard work of opening up Paris for you. I guess there’s the possibility that England is trying to attack Germany and Russia at the same time, or that there was some kind of crazy misorder, but those would be even bigger mistakes.

Maybe England suddenly panicked about the Juggernaut? That’s the only thing I can figure.

I had a little trouble figuring out the move to Gascony, but I think I got it – it nearly guarantees getting both Brest and Paris, although at the risk of losing MAO and with the possibility of a hostile Germany throwing it off. Seems a little more difficult than necessary to me, though, and it risked (as we see now) losing Belgium, the giving up of which was a mistake.

France, if you have somehow made a deal with England/Germany to stay alive, and you’ll be keeping Spain and Paris, adding, Brest, at the cost of Marseilles, then I change your grade to an A+. Pretty unlikely though.

Germany’s move out of Holland and into Belgium makes me assume this was a planned alliance with England. I don’t know about the tactics of it (but why Burgundy to Belgium? What not Holland to Belgium and Burgundy to Munich, where if you get bounced you help your new English friend by forcing the retreating Italian army to disband?), but I like the diplomacy of it. Germany wasn’t a goner, but things looked bleak, and now, they don’t look quite as bleak.

RUSSIA: C-
TURKEY: A-

Maybe these grades will change after the fall, but, Russia has given Turkey the help and lost it himself. That wide open north finally came back to bite Russia, but all is not lost – near-guaranteed gains in the south will outweigh (in centers, though not dynamically) the loss of St P. Supporting Galicia in with Bohemia makes sense I guess in that it would have left Bohemia available for action, but it’s a support which can be easily cut by hostile neighbors. If I am Russia, I am telling Germany that I never had any bad intentions, I’m just worried about Austria, and anything I’ve agreed to do for England was just to keep that dishonest scoundrel from attacking me (and see what it got me!). The diplomatic failure of potential peace between Germany and England is a big blow to Russia, not right now but in the future. The upside is that it should take a while for the potential E/G to get going – plenty of time to get ready, both tactically and diplomatically.

Meanwhile, things are coming up roses for Turkey. The power dynamics of the RT have just changed drastically in Turkey’s favor. Biggest cause for concern is that Italy is likely to get two builds and England might be fading as a counter to Italian naval strength on the other side, but Turkey could be in the Ionian first and thus be in the slightly stronger position (worth risking it this turn?). How Turkey and Italy deal with each other, as both are finishing off weaker neighbors, might be one of the defining interactions of the rest of this game.

ITALY: B
AUSTRIA: D

Tough grade for Austria, due to tough situation. Barring diplomatic coups, Austria was almost certainly guaranteed to lose two centers this year. Russia could still make some tactical errors, but they’d have to be big ones. To me, trying to defend against both Turkey and Russia was probably a mistake – make one partner pick between sticking with the alliance or making real gains – but it’s also possible you just are facing a bigger combination of powers than your own. That might represent bad diplomacy or whatever, but it might just be bad luck. Something for France to consider, too: most of the time at Diplomacy, you lose, and that’s not necessarily a bad reflection on you.

Italy is the flip side of Turkey: stronger ally is suddenly in a rougher spot (though faraway England has less immediate impact on Italy than nearby Russia does on Turkey), about to finish off a weakened neighbor, setting up for a showdown for mastery of the Mediterranean basin. Turkey will be getting there first, but Italy has the small advantage of being able to use Austria as a junior partner. Downside is that Austria might be about to retreat, if Turkey takes risks and gets lucky, out of the Ionian, which might mean one build and a big headache instead of easy two.

@ck: when you say:

"but why Burgundy to Belgium? What not Holland to Belgium and Burgundy to Munich, where if you get bounced you help your new English friend by forcing the retreating Italian army to disband"

I assume you mean a retreating French army?

Mendax, yes, thank you for pointing that out.

Well my time for writing commentary yesterday turned into shoveling snow. Since two other professors got to this phase before I could I'll wait till the next phase goes through to chime in. In the meantime, congratulations to our new Germany on the birth of his son!

Bump!
Fall moves in