I don't see this as my fault. Four people were playing, and we all had to agree to draw in order for the game to end this way. If Germany, Austria, or Turkey felt that a 4-way draw was unacceptable to them, they wouldn't have voted for the draw, right? It was acceptable to me, and I think Germany played well enough to merit a result.

Now, I will admit that I've heard a nasty rumor that occasionally gunboat player will put up a draw vote as a means of communication rather than because they prefer a draw to continuing to play on. Naturally, I don't believe a word of this -- it would be unsporting and you could even make a case that it's against the spirit of a gunboat game, and so I wouldn't want to assume such a thing about my fellow players. But, if it should turn out that one of the other three players in the game actually didn't want a 4-way draw, and if it should further turn out that this costs them advancement to the next round, then I would consider that entirely their fault, not mine. I preferred a 4-way draw on 16 centers to playing on, and therefore voted to do so.

I've also heard a nasty rumor that a guy wasn't interested in playing in the tournament anymore and was not going to play in the interests of advancing.

I naturally wouldn't assume this of any of my fellow players.

Well that's bullshit. The only person that could affect if the draw would be 3 or 4 way was you. Our draw votes were up waiting for you to stop delaying the game and decide on the result. It was your right to include Germany in the draw, but don't try to put the blame for that on us.

you were voting for a draw long before the final result. I believe you voted to accept a 5 way draw.

No, I voted when there were still 6 players in the game, so that would make a 6-way. I still cannot see how does that change the fact that letting germany in on the draw was entirely in your power.

I am on a phone about to shut down for takeoff so I'll have to reply later. But, IMO if you ask for a 6 way draw, you don't get to complain if you get one. And, did you want one? If you had not asked for it so early, I would not have forced this result instead of a 3 way, so I will hope this is the result you wanted.

You can blame people of being comunicating by vote features in any gunboat. The rulling regarding using votes can't be properly running by the mods.I told them about that long time ago. As long as the votes are visible and are available to every power in the game it's a fair game though. But nobody can prove if a player votes for a draw because he wants it or because he wants an alliance against the leader. You need to live with it and not ruin games and tournaments because someone prevented your solo.

I am not complaining about the result. I am just taking issue with you saying it's somehow my fault, because it isn't. I didn't ask for 6-way draw. I asked for draw. If everyone else would be on board I would accept the 6-way draw. I wasn't in position to make demands with the entire board against me about to throw you the game.

@Fairfax, nobody said you were complaining about the result. I believe the message from Josunice was interpreted as a complain and the response was to that message. Could be it?

"IMO if you ask for a 6 way draw, you don't get to complain if you get one."
I think this is basically saying I'm complaining about the result, but maybe I interpreted it wrongly.

I think it's pretty much clear what happened in that game. He was implying Turkey and Austria have signalled to eachother by "draw" they should stop fighting eachother and prevent the French solo. And because of that he included Germany in the draw. And I'm saying that happens in every gunboat game and you can't do anything about it. He just acts like he would never do that and like he hasn't done that ever. Like he were surprised about people doing it. But he wont say it,of course,because it would be a cheating accusation.

And because of all that all debates about using "draw" button as a comunicating tool is useless. If you want a draw of course you'll stop fighting. And if you want a draw you'll vote "draw". Meaning if you vote "draw" you are comunicating to the one who you attack that you'll stop attacking him. And nobody can say it's against the rules. Because the votes are there for all the the 7 powers equaly. It only can stay as it is or it can be invisible. Nothing else.

*are useless.Sorry.

Other diplomacy sites have the draw feature invisible in gunboats. And that's much better. But as it's visible here it's also fine because it doesn't favour anyone in general,it can influence a single game but in the end it doesn't have a significant impact on a player's skills.

The debate about the draw feature is pointless because it is merely being used to take attention from the fact that not everybody in this tournament seems to be playing to advance.

I don't think it's the case in this game. He wanted the solo here. And he probably would have advanced with that solo.

All those useless attempts at Livonia are proof that the solo is all he cared about. I get it.

Yeah but once stalemated he allowed mapu to survive, and now mapu is ahead of him in points.

Cstein is right, vote for a draw, get a draw. Lesson learned?

@ava that's true but that doesn't mean he doesn't want to advance.

It is up to the others to remove the draw until the deed is done. It is not his responsibility. I have removed a draw vote from a near stalemate game in hopes a play to thin the draw will develop... though the move did severely hurt my chances, so maybe we should void the results of that one <GRIN>

@ava: Whether your accusation has any merit depends upon whether this one point is likely to change the outcome as far as whether I qualify, and that won't be known until the power assignments in the remaining two games are revealed. So, I'm afraid that I'm going to have to decline to respond until the last two games finish, as I cannot discuss ongoing games that I might or might not still be active in.

@Split: Yes, I recognize that the draw button is often used by powers not really wanting a DIAS draw, despite voting for one. I suspect that Fairfax did not want a 6-way draw despite putting up his draw flag when there were six powers remaining. I have noticed Fairfax putting up a draw flag and then immediately attacking a power trying to hold a line as well. And, I agree with you that this isn't at all unique to Fairfax; it does seem to be standard operating procedure on this site. My own policy is to put up the draw flag when I prefer a draw to continuing the game, and not to have the draw flag up if I prefer continuing to a DIAS draw. There are certainly examples where not putting up a draw flag in a situation where I wanted to stop fighting but didn't want to draw the game has hurt me, but I consider that the price of playing ethically.

In any event, I recognize that we're not going to write a rule banning doing so because it's unenforceable. Personally, I see a large gap between a solo and a draw, and don't care all that much about the size of the draw. So, if you're playing against me and you choose this...tactic..., you're taking a serious risk that you end up with a larger draw than you really wanted, because if I turn out to be the large power and I can't get a solo, I intend to do what I can to punish players whose play I haven't liked in this regard. I won't cross beyond an individual game to do it or anything like that, but within a game I think I have every right to try and get players I don't like a result they don't want, just as a spurned power has every right to try and throw a solo.

@Csteinhardt, I think you are surprised (and shocked) by the fact two gunboaters are capable of stop fighting eachother in order to prevent a third player solo. I read the last action of your's in this game as an act of a desperation,I don't see other reason why would you make the 4-way instead of the 3-way and decreas your chances of advancing by that. I'd understand this explanation of your's if this were an ordinary game,not the GT game. It seems you haven't experienced this sort of situations and this level of gb players skills in your past games on the site.

@Split: We agree - I've made tactical choices that you don't understand. Given your 22% win rate, artificially inflated by ruthlessly taking advantage of any CD you can get your hands on, perhaps you should consider that it's not my tactical nous that's likely to be lacking here?

If I'm being brutally honest, a 4-way draw is really more than Austria deserved after that performance, and it would have been verging on criminal for that effort to get four points. Sorry, but that's the honest truth, and I'll have more to say about that in the EoGs at the end of the round. And really, Split, given that you've promised to bow out of the next round should I qualify, shouldn't you be happy to see me end up with one fewer point?

I didn't say that, I promised I'd resign if anyone of the finalists didn't want me in the finals,not only you. This isn't your's and mine tournament only,there are other people here who I care what they think.
I've also said I'd like you to play a fair game in order to advance and not to dissrespect the players and the tournament. But I see that's hard for you to do,you are constantly dissrecpectfull.
Regardind mentioning games won caused by cd-s without showing proves to the argument tells more about the character...

I'll take SplitDs place ...... I feel I owe it to you guys to help out now he has let you down and left the Tourney

I've stayed out of this but the douche dr.'s recent comments are absolutely enfuriating. It is really hard to understand how a person can act in such a childish, arrogant way. Resorting to inaccurate slander against a good player with good sportsmanship just because he can't handle criticism. This tournament has been nothing but fun for me. With the exception of every one of our dr.'s selfish stunts. I can honestly say I am amazed a person with a self stated iq of 170 can act so retarded. It is fucking dizgraceful.

IQ is not EI ...... intelligent people can't take shit, they think they are above it, they are arrogant. They can't take it up 'em as public schoolboys would say, and they would know :-)