But my point is that (Ad,Ac,6s,7s) is 2 hold'em hands. (Jd,10 ,9c,8c) is 6 hold'em hands.

Yeah, double is better (AQ one suit 10 8 another) but all suited gives you the K-10 straight flush as well as the J-7 and 10-6.

Gotcha. Although with a flop of Ah 7c 6 , ypu have a double boat draw, so two more hamds come.into.play.

All suited means you're really fucking lucky if you hit a flush.

Your odds on the flush go down about 20%, sure, but the odds of a straight flush improve by giving you more possible ways to make it. but I guess J10 suited and 98 in another suit gives the best straight, flush, and straight flush potential all around. 12 possibly straight flushes pre flop.

If you start folding A Q 10 8 fully suited pre-flop, you will start making more money in Omaha.

You do realize also that to hit the straight flush with that hand, you NEED to get the K of diamonds, Jack of diamonds, AND the 9 of diamonds out there?

Or the Jack, 9, and 7. Good luck hitting either.

Well, I rarely play Omaha as I am more the Hold-em and Stud player. Stud's my game of choice but so few places around here ever play it. So instead I play 1-3 or 2-5 NLHE.

And don't forget the 9, 7, and 6.

Yup, that'll do it too. It's still a hand to be auto-folded.

And the more I think about it, the more I like J 10 suited and 9 8 suited (but different suit of course).

AAKQ with the KQ suited but not matching either A seems pretty decent too.

That's the equivalent of J 10 suited in Hold'em. You maximize your flush/straight potential with higher-ended cards. Except in a game of chasing, you should be much happier to see J 10 9 8 double suited in Omaha than to see J 10 suited in Hold'em.

Especially as any two of the four hole cards are potential straight cards as well.

And Omaha is, at least preflop, a game of chasing, is it not?

I mean, the adage in hold-em of "if you didn't flop it you ain't got it" doesn't apply so much when a flop can hit you six different ways from Sunday with the right 4 hole cards.

Hence why you're maximizing your straight potential along with your flush potential. A Q 10 8 fully suited has worse straight potential, flush potential, AND straight flush potential than this hand.

A pair of aces wins Hold'em hands. It does not win Omaha hands.

Agreed now that I think about it. And the reduction in flush potential versus double suited is very significant. See, like I said, I don't really play Omaha. But with a little reading up, I might give it a try next time if they have one going.

Our new Cincinnati Horseshoe Casino opens in a matter of a week or so. Glad I didn't give up poker for Lent. :-) Gave up lots of things, some of which I will try to keep gone even after, other I will return to as I do love 'em (cigars/pipes in particular).

Well, a pair of aces may win hold-em hands, but not as often as some would think. I have cleaned out pocket rockets before with a hidden set. Once with a set of deuces.

@Maniac,
Rarely lose means that I rarely go away from a cash game or tournament with less money in my pocket then I went there. Honestly I can't even remember the last time that happened. I've been playing for a couple of years and when I was still an undergraduate I'd play every few weeks or so. It's true I don't win every tournament or cash game (although I often do), during most of the game I shoot for being second, then, once it's a heads up, I try to wear down my opponent.

The reason why AhAsJhTs is so good in Omaha is not only because you can make 2 nut flushes and nut straights and good straights, but because when your oppenant flops nothing you still have a hand AA which can take down the pot on the flop. Even when your opponent flops a draw you can still make them pay to hit it (although most Omaha games are played pot limit, which usually gives drawing hands better odds than when the game is no limit.

@redhouse - I'm impressed. I've played with players who have won millions and they would be delighted to have your kind of record.

I rarely play for more than 40 euros though :-)

I can't claim Red's record as I have good nights and bad nights. I rarely play tournament unless it is sit-n-go, but my bad nights normally are restricted to a couple hundred in losses where as my good nights have seen more than $1000 profit and regularly involve at least doubling my $500 buyin. Last year, my books showed a profit of $8,700 and I only played a couple times a month.

@Redhouse - you need to get into bigger games. I play $1-$3 for $500 or $2-$5 for $1000.

I usually have several periods during a game, not so much a bad or a good night. During the bad periods, I try to lay low a bit. You get a couple of bad hits, it plays with your mind. Throw away some cards. When the small blind hits and your cards are sort of average, you pay the big blind, but only to show the other players that you're still in the game, not because you think you win. Then, when you get a good hand, you play, but don't take initiative just yet. Then a really good hand comes along. You play, nothing extravagant yet, but you're a factor again.

The next good hand wins you a round. Now, you take the lead. This plays on the social level as well. You chat a bit more now. You want players to feel you're on the team. You win together, you lose together.

And then the hand you've been waiting for comes along. It's business now, no more chatting. You calculate. Everybody knows you're not bluffing, but they don't yet know the seriousness of the situation. Curiosity gets everybody in. Something's happening now, so people will want to join. Your betting is harmonized with hand / flop,turn,river combination. On the flop or the turn, your magic card comes along. You throw out half the table with a good bet. Then, the second magic card comes along. All-in. Now you lead the table. You harmonize betting not only between hand / cards on the table, but also with the other players' hands. At this point, you're really playing politics. Some of these guys will want a kind word, another wants to be reckoned with as a force in the game, a third likes to play just because the others play and the fourth is clueless. You lead them all. At the end of the night, they're happy it's you who took their money.

Easier to say than do, especially in a 2-5 hand where you have $25 preflop on pocket jacks.

Pocket Jacks.
Put a sizeable bet preflop. Nothing extravagant, just a good bet. On the flop, you have three options:

1. 10 and lower, one of each.
> Add the same amount of money as the amount you have in.

2. J and lower, one of each
>Add twice the amount of money as the amount you have in.

3. higher cards.
>Very complicated. Everything comes together here, your analysis of the other players' characters, their play history during the game, number of contestants left on hand, etc.. By default, you'll try to get out.