Or anyone else. Or kill me or anyone else.

Oh, and no small loose parts that can be choked by children.

And just nothing to hurt anyone with...

Those who would sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither freedom nor security.

Why is your question specifically about drones, Bo? If you don't approve of the government spying on the citizenry, why does it matter if they use a drone or some other means of spying? If you approve of other means of spying, but not drones, why is that? What's so special about drones in all of this?

Well I personally would rather be spied on with a computer or phone or something along those lines. The reason being, none of those things can be hijacked with a video game controller and then used as a weapon/toy by any bored person with decent hacking skills. Not to mention those other methods are far cheaper and don't require a fleet of gas guzzling drones the government cannot afford.

If we are already being spied on through phone and email records, plus most movement can be seen on CCTV cameras or security cameras anyway, it seems like a fleet of spy drones are redundant.

Just a couple to tail the likes of Bin Laden (I don't mean dead guys obviously) since they are apparently hard to keep track of so an army of drones could get such a guy maybe even a week earlier.

@Draug ... glad you finished my quote from yesterday o_O

@Jamiet ... because drones can kill someone (and others that had nothing to do with the suspected-guilty someone that didn't get a trial in all likelihood anyway); a computer bug can't.

@2WL ... my reestablished interest in this is largely because of the new drone expansion program in France, where the privacy laws are arguably the strongest in Europe and most everyone considers their privacy of utmost concern, unlike the USA where privacy isn't guaranteed by law; rather, it's simply a relatively unrealistic desire.

@steephie ... I agree, drone warfare is a relatively peaceful form of warfare, but it's still warfare, and it's still an indefensible attack with no chance for the target to prove themselves innocent.

" What is the argument for drone spying against citizens? How does it help anyone?"

The argument is that you never know how it might help until you know what people are up to.

Security is an illusion. Life is dangerous. Why trade the reality of freedom for the illusion of security?

@VirtualBob ... we are as secure and safe as we've ever been. They - by they, I mean media - are telling us otherwise but that's a fact.

@hecks ... can you not figure that out without an armed drone? Can't you figure that out with a trial and investigations and interrogations? How about a court warrant? Maybe even a legal inquiry? These things exist *for a reason*.

@BoSox,
I'm not saying I agree with that argument. Just restating the argument as I understand it.

Well I just fucked that argument up in 30 seconds... is that really it?

@bo ... that was my point. All this hoopla does ZERO to increase security & safety. All it does is spend money as part of a central government power grab and redistribute it through a full employment program. I'll take freedom and let me deal with security on my own.

"If we are already being spied on through phone and email records, plus most movement can be seen on CCTV cameras or security cameras anyway, it seems like a fleet of spy drones are redundant. "

Here in the states, there are far fewer CCTV/security cameras when you get out of major metropolises like New York. You'll find them privately at banks and businesses, but not in the typical suburban neighborhood. We don't have our every moved watched by big brother like the UK folk do.

As far as the drones, they don't have to be armed. They don't even have to be the gas guzzlers, which are actually useless for spying on the citizenry. The much more useful "drone" is the electric quadracopter. Light weight, low energy usage, zero emissions, very quiet, able to wirelessly record audio and video, and very maneuverable.

I would approve of drone usage for something like border patrol and to catch drug smugglers. I think it would be very useful to have a few drones in southern california.

I would like the drones to deliver my amazon packages while they take pictures of my house.

Amazon will probably develop their technology to that point before long, Mapu.

Goldfinger, even in that situation, they wouldn't be there to kill, only to catch. I hope.

I actually can think of some cases where you can use them, and they are actually the first choice IMO.

When given specific tasks, quadracopter drones can autonomously work together in groups saving people by reaching spots humans can't safely reach, and when on scene do what the humans would otherwise do...

And, you don't have to send some Japanese dudes when they have another problem with nuclear reactor because you can send Japanese drones instead.

That's all cutting edge though, but we're getting there...

bo_sox: who said kill?

If the Japanese were smart, they'd never have had to deal with that reactor in any dangerous way, and if they were smart, they'd not still be trying to cover up the effects.

I am not against the use of drones in some kind of capacity. I am, however, against it when used to spy on citizens. In terms of crime solving, maybe they'd be useful (more like crime prevention I guess). Maybe they could help with dangerous jobs. They are certainly a much, much better option for war than people on the front lines. They are a useful piece of technology. They aren't a toy, though.

No one did, except the current administration.

who said kill? Any use of drones I would ever condone (on US soil) would be for surveillance and tracking. Search and rescue, border patrol, etc.

It gets into a sticky legal question though, because anything too advanced that the drone might have (thermal capabilities, etc) is an illegal search and seizure without a warrant if its used for police work.

I think bo_sox, young though he is, has an important point. The problem with recent technologies is that, if we don't develop guidelines for them early on, they can really get out of hand.

Take cloning for example. Cloning caught a lot of negative publicity in it's early days and so fairly strict regulations were put in place to prohibit behavior that was either considered unethical or else poorly understood. If anything, the regulations were probably too strict, but as a result we don't have a host of nightmarish cloning experiments going on.

With other technologies we have not been so lucky. I don't believe that drones are the sort of thing we want to toss to the private sector (or the police necessarily) and say "Go to town, boys!". I'd be happier if a set of guidelines were put into place along with a review period during which new technologies, particularly drone usage, was better studied.

These sorts of things are not self-regulating and we can't rely on people's better judgement and self-restraint to keep us safe.

Since orbital satellite technology is now falling into the hands of private investors and even hobbyists, it is not inconceivable that hobbyists will one day be able to home-brew large scale numbers of drones, even dangerous drones.

We have all seen the amount of mischief that youngsters, even miscreants, get into with smart phones and I'd hate to see this extended to small cheap flying robots.

The military, ever an early adopter of this sort of thing, has already used drones in a way inconsistent with public sentiments, so it is better to study and regulate these sorts of issues now before Big Technology and Big Marketing and the law enforcement lobbying industry get large financial positions in the sector.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/yemen-officials-u-s-drone-kills-13-wedding-article-1.1545829

I agree with Al on the regulations, but I fear it will just end in a 'Drones don't kill people, people kill people!' argument. And why prohibit drones when automatic and lethal guns are ok?

It could definitely help in Europe though, but it seems we're just trying to keep up with America if anything... Not sure if we should prevent that...

The use of drones isn't really a strange thing in America if you think about it. That's the scary thing about America: it's almost like it's "born for this shit", if you will.

Southwest Ohio is up foor a possible testing grounds for the new drones for use in our population as they have to get FAA approval. Guess what? They are going helicopter oriented as I predicted. I believe they are supposed to be quadracopters.