Apparently, there are no actual black people in the netherlands they might hire for the role?

I never even heard of black Pete until my 9 year old son told me about him last year. Must be a new tradition?

"Instead of remaining civil, the group that doesn't think Black Pete is racist attacks the opposition with a wave of racist remarks. Not knowing anything else about the situation, that alone suggests which side is correct..."

-Most people who are pro-Black Pete remain civil. And many of them believe that it's racist, but it's an innocent tradition.
-I remember one person in the anti-Black Pete camp asking herself "Why Hitler didn't gas all Dutch people while he was at it." Not very civil.

"-I remember one person in the anti-Black Pete camp asking herself "Why Hitler didn't gas all Dutch people while he was at it." Not very civil."

Seems a legit point though. How you people lasted this long as a nation is still beyond me.

A nation? I thought Holland / Netherlands was just a vacation spot for 420ers. Who knew they actually had the authority to rule themselves?

Netherlands? What's that? You mean the Islamic Union of Nigeriarabia?

It's a geographic expression, commonly referring to an area where the population surrenders to any advancing army within one week. Also may refer to the location of an international prison where they murder heads of state.

Well, I must admit, aside from giving the world the best trance producers, they did build a huge sea wall, pump out water reclaiming astonishing amounts of land from the sea, have wonderful dairy products and grow a shitload of flowers.

Too bad they're all so keen on surrendering, be it to an army or hordes of allahu akbar immigrants. And they need to cheer the fuck up as well.

That's quite a telling tradition given the related cultures (Germany, Austria-Hungary) have retained devil as Nicholas' companion. Using a stereotypical African as an ersatz devil surely portrays 19th century colonialist Lowlands as very enlightened societies :)

Now, I didn't know about this tradition until I read this thread, but I highly doubt Black Pete is supposed to be an "ersatz devil." The Krampus tradition is an alpine one, which is just about as far removed culturally from the Low Countries as one can get. While the idea of the St. Nicholas character having a companion may have come to the Netherlands during Habsburg rule, it's a bit of a reach to say that Black Pete is the same things as Krampus. For one, he seems to just be a Moor, not some non-human monster. Also, while Krampus is an evil character that punishes bad children, Black Pete seems to be a friendly helper who gives out gifts himself.

And at any rate, this tradition predates the 19th century and Dutch imperialism by hundred and hundreds of years, so it's not valid to criticize it in the manner you are.


"Also may refer to the location of an international prison where they murder heads of state."

The ICC can't impose a death penalty, so it's clear Putin33 believes in the truly ludicrous conspiracy theory that Slobodan Milosevic didn't die of natural causes. Not a surprising position for a guy who denies the Bosnian Genocide to take.

You're a valiant google warrior then, but while the tradition is indeed older than colonialism, the transformation of Nicholas' companion from an evil figure (devil) to a stereotypical negro only really took place in the 19th century.

Only ludicrous to someone who sniffs the jock of Naser Oric. He urgently requested medical care and was denied it. Even his fiercest critics and the people responsible for the coup said the Hague was responsible for his death.

But naturally, being a disgusting fiend and lackey of imperialism that you are, you'll believe anything the head-removing jihadists tell the world.

What, Invictus - the otherwise contrarian hater - defend racist colonial traditions based on his wikipedia research? Color me surprised.

I'm not a Google warrior on this. My one of my degrees happens to be in German, and when I studied abroad I was in Austria, where the Krampus tradition is strong.

You be the Google warrior then. Show some links on how Black Pete was more like Krampus (a pre-Christian pagan holdout rather than a devil) instead of just a Moor before the 19th century. Moors were a fixture of European heraldry since the Middle Ages, so it's not as if they weren't common symbols until Europeans actually ruled over various Africans.

I don't see how its "racist" yet another example of libtards misusing the word. Idiots.

When has your kind ever thought anything was racist? Other than "reverse-racism" that is?

"But naturally, being a disgusting fiend and lackey of imperialism that you are, you'll believe anything the head-removing jihadists tell the world."

Only a swivel-eyed irrational person like yourself could produce a sentence like that. If thinking Slobodan Milosevic died of natural causes makes someone a lackey of imperialism then the bar's set quite low these days.


"What, Invictus - the otherwise contrarian hater - defend racist colonial traditions based on his wikipedia research? Color me surprised."

No, I was just saying Black Pete probably isn't an "ersatz devil." I really do know a bit about the Krampus figure, and apart from their both being companions to a St. Nicolas character I don't see much resemblance. The figure's age also makes it being a "racist colonial tradition" suspect. I'm just sharpening the analysis, not defending the practice. I agree it certainly looks quite out of place in the modern world, and in my opinion, which counts for literally nothing as a non-Dutch person, it's probably not something to keep doing.

But why pass up a chance to slander me?

Putin, my "kind" does think some things to be racist, but not a fking tradition where a guy gives candy dressed up. By no means is the tradition being discriminatory or promoting racial prejudice, if you think it does, you're a fucking retard.

I'm sure dressing up as the moors (who invaded the shit out of Europe) most probably to their exotic wear as seen by Europeans is soooooo #racist. Moron.

*because of their exotic attire

I bet putin thinks Halloween is racist as well.

" If thinking Slobodan Milosevic died of natural causes makes someone a lackey of imperialism then the bar's set quite low these days."

No, that's just one notch on your very long blood-soaked belt.

"But why pass up a chance to slander me?"

Why pass up a chance to be a rank hypocrite?

"is the tradition being discriminatory or promoting racial prejudice, if you think it does, you're a fucking retard."

Parse that sentence for a second, numpty.

"I bet putin thinks Halloween is racist as well."

You Ayn Rand shilling bros tend to make it that way and ruin it for everyone else.

"No, that's just one notch on your very long blood-soaked belt."

More swivel-eyed lunacy. And again, believing he died of natural causes is what everyone who isn't a disgusting apologist for Serbian genocidal actions like yourself believes. They believe that because it's true and they aren't married to some wacky, neofascist ideology like you are with regards to the Serbs.


"Why pass up a chance to be a rank hypocrite?"

Uh, where's my hypocrisy here?

"And again, believing he died of natural causes is what everyone who isn't a disgusting apologist for Serbian genocidal actions"

Yeah, like that "apologist" Boris fucking Tadic. But I guess what you really mean is any Serb at all. Because all Serbs are evil according to you. Why on earth would Milosevic take a drug to treat leprosy? Oh, but the self-serving autopsy said such and such, so it must be true.

"Uh, where's my hypocrisy here?"

You slander me every chance you get, stooge.

Sure. I bet you think the Queen killed Princess Di, too.


"You slander me every chance you get, stooge."

It's not slander when it's true.

"It's not slander when it's true."

Do you need directions to the nearest PokeMart so you can pick up some Burn Heal?

"Sure. I bet you think the Queen killed Princess Di, too."

Says someone who believes in the resurrection. Please explain why a drug treating TB and leprosy was found in Milosevic's system. Oh you can't, that'd require more than a cursory google search. Too much work. Make poor Predicty's brain hurt.

"Says someone who believes in the resurrection."

This just in: Local Burn Ward at maximum capacity. More at 11.

Here's the first Google page for "Milosevic assassination." Only three are relevant to his actual death, apart from Wikipedia which tells the mainstream story. Of the three, two are the same article and one is a blogspot post we can safely ignore. One of the two non-who-gives-a-shit-blog links is to Global Research, a site chock-full of wacky conspiracy stuff like 9/11 "truth" and an article on the main page calling Israeli planes "al-Qaeda's Air Force" due to its actions in Syria. The other, and again it's the same content on both sites, is the Worker's World website.

https://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en&tab=ww#hl=en&q=milosevic+assassination

So yeah, given the choice between the universally-held position that Milosevic's big old Bosnian and Kosovar hating heart just gave out and gossamer claims from fringe websites that he was assassinated, I'll take the mainstream view, thanks.