It was after you turned it off I assure you...

Yes, I agreed with his assessment that the American tax code is pathetically un-progressive. I agreed with the thing about ending oil subsidies. Some other stuff I forgot. I disagreed with some other stuff too, the trade policy bits I think. I'm not very good at watching TV.

"Yes, I agreed with his assessment that the American tax code is pathetically un-progressive. I agreed with the thing about ending oil subsidies. Some other stuff I forgot. I disagreed with some other stuff too, the trade policy bits I think. I'm not very good at watching TV."
MUTLINATIONAL TAX
END SUBSIDIES TO UNIVERSITIES WHO DON'T LOWER THEIR TUITIONS (the easiest ways for universities to sustain themselves if this happens is to end scholarship programs)
FORCE BANKS TO GIVE LOANS TO STUDENTS WITH NO CREDIT RATINGS (you don't see the irony in this? giving mortgages to people with no credit ratings caused the last financial bubble, Obama admitted that this might become the next bubble, and to prevent it, he forces banks to loan more money then they can afford... nobody thinks this is retarded?)
INCREASE OIL EXPLORATION IN OUR BORDERS (Which is in effect subsidizing the oil industry, something he promised he would end (which I want ended) and admitted was unsustainable)
There is a few other things that I forget.

Don't forget the Buffet Rule in revising the tax code, taking away insider trading from Congress, partially removing the filibuster, and some other pot shots he took at Congress.

I fell asleep about twenty minutes in...and the speech was a primary factor in causing the drowsiness.

Plz note, this post is off topic
Where does the term "pot shot" come from?

@Nike

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=pot+shot

I'm so sick of State of the Unions and commentary I'm just looking it up later...

No matter who it is, the Blues hate the Reds, the Reds hate the Blues, and depending on whether you're tuned into MSNBC or FOX, either it's a victory for the Blues and the Reds are in trouble or the Blues are ruining the country as communist-fascist-scoialist-Marxist-Blue Meanies, and the Reds are the Ultra-Super-Duper Saviors of truth, justice, and the American way of butting in where no one wants us and screwing gays and lesbians while banging the Bible and saying "God bless America!" until I turn Red, White, and Blue in the face and choke to death on the sheer amount of hypocrisy coming from both sides.

So yeah--that's my take, yours? :p

I am telling you people, you missed the part that rolled in an octagon and Pelosi took on Boehner.

In a fight to the death of course, it was a draw.

I played the State of the Union drinking game with a friend. Best one yet!

That explains a lot about your very recent posts... Jkjk ;)

Obama struck me as a well-intended reformer who is genuinely pissed off at the status quo (and rightly so). He may not have all the right answers (you're not going to fix the tax code by making it even bigger and more complex, for instance), but he seems to be asking at least some of the right questions in my view. I certainly see him as an improvement over Presidents Frat Boy, Sex-crazed Psychopath, New World Order, and I Don't Recall.

explain this drinking game to me, it seems only use for state of the union.

Yeah, Obi don't listen to the pundits and all the media. Just listen to Obama speak himself and he puts forward a lot of good ideas and good initiatives. How he'll pay for some of them is circumspect (well, he won't be paying for them since he's pushing it to the states in many cases) but lots of good ideas coming out, and lots of surprisingly conservative ideas of his too. And he was pissed at Congress. He wasn't mean about it, but he told them to get their fucking act together

"Don't forget the Buffet Rule in revising the tax code, taking away insider trading from Congress, partially removing the filibuster, and some other pot shots he took at Congress."
Yes, buffet tax makes little sense (aka it happened briefly in the 90s but got pulled cause the government LOST revenue as a result. Don't believe me:
http://i40.tinypic.com/awu6nq.png
Isn't it funny how each time capital gins tax was raised the realizations from hit lowered and each time it was lowered the revenue from it increased? Google laffer curve, its a basic economic term that has proven to be accurate.

"No matter who it is, the Blues hate the Reds, the Reds hate the Blues, and depending on whether you're tuned into MSNBC or FOX, either it's a victory for the Blues and the Reds are in trouble or the Blues are ruining the country as communist-fascist-scoialist-Marxist-Blue Meanies, and the Reds are the Ultra-Super-Duper Saviors of truth, justice, and the American way of butting in where no one wants us and screwing gays and lesbians while banging the Bible and saying "God bless America!" until I turn Red, White, and Blue in the face and choke to death on the sheer amount of hypocrisy coming from both sides."
a speech is a speech is a speach. When Obama is speaking live regardless of whose broadcasting the content is identical. Its the recap (that yeah, I don;t watch) that should be skipped.

"Pelosi took on Boehner."
guns, swords or just fists?

"In a fight to the death of course, it was a draw."
both died (hopefully)?

"I played the State of the Union drinking game with a friend. Best one yet!"
Take a shot everytime he said something insane? Man I would have died of alchohol poising, and a few months back I took more shots then I have lived years on the planet. (17)

"Obama struck me as a well-intended reformer who is genuinely pissed off at the status quo (and rightly so). He may not have all the right answers (you're not going to fix the tax code by making it even bigger and more complex, for instance), but he seems to be asking at least some of the right questions in my view. I certainly see him as an improvement over Presidents Frat Boy, Sex-crazed Psychopath, New World Order, and I Don't Recall."
I liked sex-crazed Psychopath (Assuming were talking about Clinton), but I don't know I guess balanced budgets, willingness to compromise with the other party etc. etc. is something I want in a president...

New World Order: Bush Sr or Reagan? I liked Reagan, Bush Sr was worse then Bush Jr.

"but he told them to get their fucking act together"
which is something that needs to be done

@fasces
None, they used medieval maces.

@Sic

http://www.drinkinggame.us/

Obama's SOTU was solid. Put GOP on the defensive without coming off as partisan, despite all local commentators in Ohio & Boehner claiming it'd be nothing more than a Democratic Party peprally.

@Fasces - don't lecture the econ major on the Laffer curve please. I know what it is, but it is hypothetical and doesn't have a finite set of numbers assigned to it saying "This is the magic tax rate"

I'm remembering more of the speech now and didn't like how he'd increase the cost of doing business for foreign companies in the US, but oh well that's populism for ya.

"I liked sex-crazed Psychopath (Assuming were talking about Clinton), but I don't know I guess balanced budgets, willingness to compromise with the other party etc. etc. is something I want in a president..."

That's an interesting take on the mid/late 90s. The only reason the budgets were balanced was because Clinton and the Republicans were spending all their time trying to cut each others' throats and didn't have time to find ways to spend all the incoming tax revenue (hooray for gridlock!). And to say that the budget was balanced is to accept an accounting trick employed by governments that would land me in prison if I tried to do my business' accounting that way (keeping future liabilities off the books).

"New World Order: Bush Sr or Reagan?" - Bush: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rc7i0wCFf8g

"I liked Reagan, Bush Sr was worse then Bush Jr."

Are you crazy? Not a fan of *either* Bush, but the latter ran the country into the ground with out of control deficit spending and wars, while the former... uhh... nevermind. At least the old man could speak in complete sentences, and his wars were really short - he was also smart enough to avoid occupying Iraq.

"None, they used medieval maces."
EPIC!

"@Fasces - don't lecture the econ major on the Laffer curve please. I know what it is, but it is hypothetical and doesn't have a finite set of numbers assigned to it saying "This is the magic tax rate""
You and me were in agreement, that was just adressing anyone who likes the buffet tax...

I am well aware that laffer isn't a set rate, but if the last time we raised the tax we lost revenue doing so, then, (at least in theory) the samething will happen again.

"That's an interesting take on the mid/late 90s. The only reason the budgets were balanced was because Clinton and the Republicans were spending all their time trying to cut each others' throats and didn't have time to find ways to spend all the incoming tax revenue (hooray for gridlock!). And to say that the budget was balanced is to accept an accounting trick employed by governments that would land me in prison if I tried to do my business' accounting that way (keeping future liabilities off the books)."
Given that I was 1-5 (depending on the exact year) at the time, I can't completly judge the Clinton administration. But I do know he had budget surplusses.

What accounting tricks are you claiming?

"Are you crazy? Not a fan of *either* Bush, but the latter ran the country into the ground with out of control deficit spending and wars, while the former... uhh... nevermind. At least the old man could speak in complete sentences, and his wars were really short - he was also smart enough to avoid occupying Iraq."
Bush Jr was at least competent enough to get re-elected...

"Bush Jr was at least competent enough to get re-elected..."

That's because the election was fixed.

Conspiracy theory? GTFO!

My apologies then Fasces

"That's because the election was fixed."

@Tolstoy: any evidence?

"My apologies then Fasces"
its ok, in any case I didn't know you were an econ major. Thats pretty cool.

@kid:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=2004+election+fixed

cam up with no *real* results

Okay... what would you consider a 'real' result?

one that supports my thesis :P

Its a cracked up conspiracy theory, lets just leave it at that.

The list of irregularities in Ohio is a mile long for 2004.

Also explain the odds of so many exit polls being wildly wrong at the same time.

Okay, let's all just pretend that all elections are perfectly fair, and there are never any improprieties.

Have you ever actually *seen* an American election up close, Fasces? Have you ever even thought about what happens (or what *can* happen) to a ballot after its dropped into the ballot box? Have you ever seen the inner workings of vote tabulating systems? Ever hear your county elections official saying he "massages the results"? Ever see this same county elections official get publicly exposed by the county supervisors for rigging the voting system selection process, yet somehow keep his job? Ever see ballot boxes come into the county building where the tabulating is done with their seals broken? Ever seen vote tabulating systems suffer from a mysterious unexplained "glitch", and then when said "glitch" is fixed an hour or two later, the results for some races are drastically different?

Let me know if you've seen even one of these things, and then we can talk about "cracked up conspiracy theories".

http://www.letxa.com/ohio2004.php

Tolstoy, let me see the specific incident you are discussing and let us all share in your cracked up conspiracy theories. If he was exposed it was news, and it was publicized somewhere. Lets see it.

@SC: Unfortunately, the local newspaper's website sucks and the news story is no longer available there, but it is the third news story listed on this page:

http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_product=VDBB&p_theme=vdbb&p_action=search&p_maxdocs=200&s_dispstring=allfields(konopasek)%20AND%20date(6/1/2003%20to%206/31/2003)&p_field_date-0=YMD_date&p_params_date-0=date:B,E&p_text_date-0=6/1/2003%20to%206/31/2003)&p_field_advanced-0=&p_text_advanced-0=(%22konopasek%22)&xcal_numdocs=20&p_perpage=10&p_sort=YMD_date:D&xcal_useweights=no

I was at that Board of Supervisors' meeting, and saw the whole thing with my own two eyes. The sum of it was that the Registrar of Voters (a sleazy slimeball who had been recently imported from the state of Washington) violated the Board's RFP process for the new state-mandated electronic voting system to guarantee the selection of one particular vendor with whom he had done a substantial amount of consulting work. If you're really interested, you can contact the Clerk of the Board for San Bernardino County and request the tape of the meeting (it will cost you $10-$20 plus shipping, I imagine).

So it had NOTHING to do with the election but had to do with picking out machines? Or are you saying he was getting the vendor elected (or his product selected by the voters by rigging an election)

What about the whole messaging results statement. If someone says that i suggest you get him sent to prison where you go for "messaging results"

"So it had NOTHING to do with the election but had to do with picking out machines?"

That was one of several scandals I alluded to - I thought you were asking about this accusation specifically(?)

"Or are you saying he was getting the vendor elected (or his product selected by the voters by rigging an election)"

Basically what happened was that the county Board of Supervisors had the Registrar of Voters manage the RFP process, and the RFP process was fixed in favor of one particular vendor (they were able to change part of their final bid that had been finalized in the preliminary selection process). If you want me to go into detail, I can, but it would be a looong post.

"What about the whole messaging results statement. If someone says that i suggest you get him sent to prison where you go for "messaging results""

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2260167
"7. In San Bernardino County, registrar Scott Konopasek admitted that his votes went down in one race on election night. He said it was because votes were leftover in the system (???). He also referred to the use of an uncertified software bridge with Sequoia machines, called "Arrow." He also said he had to "massage" the data. When Andy Stephenson said "You had to MASSAGE the data?" he said he meant that in a good way."

Granted this is hearsay, but as someone who met and worked (in a sense) with this snake, I find it completely believable in light of a number of suspicious election events/results during his tenure.

yikes

"yikes"

Yes, that's exactly what I was saying at the time.

This guy is gone, but I have a funny feeling nothing has changed for the better in my county since his departure. I also happened upon a job once in 2006 where I was actually working for a voting machine vendor supporting their equipment in the midterm elections that year for a county in a western state which shall not be named. That experience was a real eye-opener, on several levels. Election fraud is rampant in this country, and I really don't think the electoral system in America should be taken too seriously any more - if it ever should have to begin with.

Greedy capitalists in the USA do not seem to understand the fundamental Keynesian theory on how capital markets work so they bang on about some bullshit called trickle-down which is nonsense. If you want to make rich people richer you increase consumer spending, you do that by giving money to poor people who always spend it which starts off the multiplier effect and generates ecenomic activity and growth, because of the tax system that benefits the rich as growth increases GDP the rich get richer, also rising stock and property prices make the rich richer. The irony of this whole thing that greedy ignorant right-wing Republicans don't seem to grasp is that any policies (even higher taxes for the rich) that stimulate growth will disproportionately benefit those people with property and with stocks and shares. Warren Buffett and Bill Gates are doing more for World Capitalism by spending their billions than by keeping it in a bank but then these are highly intelligent people who know what they are doing, not small-minded right-wing Americans who would cut off their nose to spite their own face. Watching the American dream crumble due to extreg greed and ignorance I don't know whether to laugh or cry !!