Here's my vote. My son is named Ryker(after William T. but with an y instead of i) and one of my cats is named Anakin.

...I'm still stuck on why the holidays put you in a Sci-Fi mood.:P

GO KIRK!!!!!!!

But then Picard is a real diplomat in the series... not as much style as kirk though.

Data can't negotiate! He'd be tricked too easily i reckon.

Janeway a bit too obsessed with getting home.

Worf can't resist a good fight- and he'll never retreat when he should. Sorry but being a Bat'leth wielding maniac on the battlefield doesn't win a war.

khan isn't bad- but was outsmarted by kirk

spock is too damn logical- though he did soften up in the voyage home. But I reckon sometimes in Diplomacy random moves actually work better than a predictable coordinated attack.

Sisko not outstanding enough. The prophets would tell him not to decieve anyway.

Go KIRK!!!!

While Khan would come in a close second, Kirk all the way. Just the right combination of brute force and smooth talking (especially with the (green) ladies!).

Yoda, you seek Yoda! Strong is he with the Force...fool him, you will not.

Another note, wtf is Padme doing in there? How about Han? Sheesh, kids these days...

Nobody I have seen in startrek would do well at Diplomacy (despite all those delegates they always seem to be escorting to conferences). Except possibly Q?

However, my vote is for Vader: the Vader of the original Starwars movies.

I guess Data is a better diplomat than you think. I consider the episode "The Ensigns of Command" concerning explicitly his negotiation skills and also the episodes "Redemption Pt. 2", "Gambit 1&2", showing he is able to command the vessel, and prooves superior analytical and thus tactical skills. Even "Peak Performance" shows it in the end of the episode. ;)

Sci Fi for me is battlestar galactica, the old stuff such as trek and wars is good.....but BSG has tricia helfer!!!

however my vote goes for picard, the best captain by a long way!

vada forever!!!!!!!!! he's is the world's most powerful jedi, and luke is just a hyped-up, idiotic piece of human trash that couldn't kill in AMOEBA if he wanted to... , and couldn't drive drive a bloody starfighter

Never saw any Trek movie or series, so can't vote in there.
For Wars my vote goes to Yoda.

Nobody has said Palpatine for the Star Wars one? For serious? His taking over the galaxy by a combination of force and manipulation is kind of the backdrop of the series....and doesn't that sound like a description of diplomacy to you guys?

So, the tally so far is (oh boy, this'll be hard:

Trek Heat:

Kirk- 2
Picard- 2 (I'm voting for mim in this heat, +1)
Data- 1 (I think Sugyosha voted for him, if you didn't, say so)Spock- 0
Sisko- 0
Worf- 0 (Seriously: nobody'll vote for him?)
Janeway- 0
Khan- 0

Wars Heat:

Vader- 3
Yoda- 2
Palpatine- 1 (faceplantmosese, I think you voted for him.......)
Obi-Wan- 1 (My vote here, +1: a great Jei AND negotiator)
Padme- 0 (A Senator, so she's here, but I agree, she's weak)
Leia- 0 (Hmmm- no love for Leia? Sad.........)
Luke- 0

All candidates with no votes by 1:00 pm Pacific Time will be GONE! One small ammendment- the top TWO from each heat will move on, and then we'll merge the lists and go down (I expect the Kirk/Picard camps to knot things up, so that's why I'm doing this)

faceplant has a point. Palpatine gets my vote.

It would come down to Obi Wan v. Picard. Obi Wan would win. Hands down. Every knows Star Wars is better than Star Trek.

In your dreams. ^^ Besides.. No: Really no one would vote for Worf. Good tactical officer, bad diplomat. I like him, but not as negotiator. Negotiating with Worf has some Obi-Wan likeness: "You were right about one thing Master. The Negotiations were short." So... my vote goes to Data, as mentioned earlier.

Boba or Han. Gotta be. I won't vote for anyone else.

This isn't a popularity contest its a vote on who the best Diplomacy player would be.

I like Kirk a whole lot more than Picard but in a game of Diplomacy Kirk would get to distracted by trying to have carnal relations with any and everything in the game that Picard would just roll over and take control of the situation.

Vader was a puppet, Luke was a puppet, Obi-won was a puppet, Leia and Padme' were just pawns. The True players were Palpatine and Yoda. Everyone else was just doing what they were told. My first thoughts were that Palpatine would win hands down. But if you look at the big picture Palpatine got himself all the way up to 17 SC's on the verge of winning the game and all Yoda had was Luke that he used to attack with and used Obi-won and Leia to support those moves. He chipped away at Palpatines rule piece by piece and had the last laugh when he pulled off the come from behind victory.

So my votes are 1 for Yoda and 1 for Picard.

Worf. People would trust his word, and that could be useful. Besides, his aggression could pay off. He would whoop Data that's for sure, because Data can't lie.

Yoda. And Picard.

TIME'S UP! I'm slow at calculations (great writer, horrid math student) so I'll have the computations back in, oh, say, an hour.

I agree with Signalseven completely about Yoda. So you can add one more to his tally. I really don't care about who gets votes in the Star Trek heat.

Yoda for me in Star Wars as well

TIME's UP! I'll allow the last two votes. The standings:

X- Top vote getter in the Heat
*- Moving on

Trek Heat:

X Picard- 4
Kirk- 2
Data- 2
Worf- 1
Spock- 0....... and GONE!
Janeway-0....... and GONE!
Khan -0....... and GONE!
Sisko-0....... and GONE!

Wars Heat:

X Yoda-6
* Vader- 3
Palpatine- 2
Obi-Wan- 2
Luke-0....... and GONE!
Padme-0....... and GONE!
Leia-0....... and GONE!

We have some ties to break- folks! Three competitors (Yoda with 6, Picard with 4, and Vader with 3), have spots locked up. So, we have four spots left, with five folks left (I'll allow all point getters, so Mr. Worf just barely squeaks by for now.)

I'll just merge these five into one Mini-Heat, and the top four will get in. Points carry over. If there is ANOTHER TIE, I'LL cast te deciding vote. (Only fair, since I have to do math. lol) All votes for these mini-heats are due by 3:00 EST, so noon my time. And I hope everyonehad a good Christmas.

One lat note- not voting for Trek AND Wars here- just one.

The Mini-Heat:

Data- 3 (My vote, and he CAN LIE, he did so in at least one show)
Kirk- 2
Palpatine- 2
Obi-Wan- 2
Worf- 1

Wow Signalseven I really like you comment. Really, I wish I could write essays that were that analytical and concise

It could just be because of the holidays that this thread is slow moving.

It could also be just because Yoda would Pwn all.

I don't know I'm not a doctor.

But I do know one thing.

I'm at work and bored.

TIME'S UP! The Finalist Heast Will consist of:

Yoda- 6
Picard- 5 (El_Perro_Artero, your vote was not at the right time)
Vader- 3
Palpatine- 3
Data- 3
Kirk- 2
Obi-Wan- 2

24 more hours- let the final fight begin!

Obv. Obi-wan -- he is the best at Jedi-mind tricks, thus would have Picard and Kirk as unbreakable allies. Though less of a strategist than Data, Palpatine, or Vader, his allies would be more than enough to win. (This of course assumes that attacking your foes physically is not aloud)

Obi-Wan.

Well, I only have one vote to cast, and I have to say, I'm a bit conflicted. freakflag brings up a good point about the Jedi Mind Trick, that WOULD seem to be a huge disadvantage to most of the Trek figures. MOST. Data, a machine, COULD reist, and therefore win.

Anyone ever seen the TNG episode, "Peak Perfomance?" GREAT EPISODE, as Data palys a strategy game against a grand master touted as one of the best in the known galaxy. Data couldn't win, but he DID DRAW HIM, by always countering his moves. So, in a Diplomacy view, he'd probably try for a 17 vs. 17 standoff, or something similar. If he felt he could easily win, he might try, but there's a good chance he'd draw- and 2-player draws are something only skilled Diplomacy palyers can pull off.

Yes, I want to vote for Data here- but I won't. Not yet. I don't know if he'll get the popular support, as he'd need 3 to tie the leader (Yoda), and four to overtake him. So I'll hold off voting and see what happens.

Keep this discussion in mind, Trekkers and Trekkies. (Both terms I use with respect.) If we want to win, we can't be like a political party and split our vote between candidates. We need to unite.

18 more hours............. :)

Obiwanobiwan,

If you have read up on your Jedi lore then you would know that Data being a machine doesn't make him immune to Force suggestions. In fact depending on the Jedi he was up against he would be even easier to control than most humans.

Even if your theory were correct do you really think that Data would last past 04? Any Jedi playing in that game would see that Data was immune and just have everyone gang up on him. No matter how well you play the game it is damn near impossible to survive if all 6 other players are working against you from the start.

In the episode you are speaking about Data was able to tie the Grand Master because he only had to work against one person and their strategy so again your theory has many holes in it.

In a non-Jedi game he has a shot. But in this format Data = Fail.



Now for another matter.


Freakflag, - “Obv. Obi-wan -- he is the best at Jedi-mind tricks, thus would have Picard and Kirk as unbreakable allies. Though less of a strategist than Data, Palpatine, or Vader, his allies would be more than enough to win. (This of course assumes that attacking your foes physically is not aloud)”


OMG!!!!

First off how can anyone believe that Obi-wan was the best at mind control.

Are you basing that off the fact that he convinced two stormtroopers to let them past a check point? FYI stormtroopers are not the best or brightest the Imperial Army has to offer. If they were then they would have been officers wearing nice crisp dry-cleaned grey uniforms.

If your argument comes from the fact that he talked Han Solo into taking them across the galaxy for 2,000 credits instead of the 10,000 he was asking for then you aren’t thinking about the 15,000 he was being promised at the end of the trip. Even if Obi-wan was suggesting to Han that he should trust him and allow this barter, Han knew that the 2,000 credits he was getting was more than fair for a ride.

Even after Obi-won was dead he was doing what Yoda instructed him to do.


Now for the second blaringly offensive statement you made.

“Though less of a strategist than Data, Palpatine, or Vader,”

Cases have been made for Data as a strategist.
Palpatine was a brilliant strategist. He set up and played the entire galaxy like a fiddle all in the face of thousands of mind reading Jedi. It wasn’t until he tipped his hand that Yoda was able to put things in place to defeat the Emperor.

Now for Vader. How in the name of all things holy could you possibly think of Vader as a strategist? Vader was nothing more than a whiney cry baby who missed his mommy and was looking for a daddy figure. Vader was the biggest puppet of the entire galaxy. He had the emperor’s hand (Not Mara Jade) so far up his ass Palpatine could tickle his ears. Vader has never won any engagement by strategic influence. He has only ever used brute force and if that didn’t work he would ask Big Papa Palpatine for help to figure things out.



My vote is and always will be for Yoda winning and with Palpatine controlling the rest of the board. Even after death both of them had a ton of influence over the course of the galaxy.

Obi-Wan, Picard.

1. Pick only 1, Thucydides- or your vote doesn't count.

2. Yes, perhaps Data could be ganged up on, but so could everyone else. And Jedi Mind Tricks work on the WEAK-MINDED. Data is pretty strongminded, if you ask me- always trying to expand his knowledge, always open to new ideas- he's not just some stupid TF Battle Droid who'll blindly take orders. He has questioned Picard before (though never before the whole crew), and has even taken command of the Enterprise once in an emergency (can't remember episode.) Does that sound like the kind of weak-minded fool who would succumb to the Mind Trick? Even Jabba could resist it, so I think it is being played up a bit here.

3. I also think Palpatine is a bit overrated here. No doubt he'd do WELL, and that he'd be an expert sneak and stabber, and could even cause nations to fight proxy-wars for him. Still, that can catch up to you eventually (often does with me and my group with which I play Diplomacy for.) I think he'd get to 12, get too agressive, and then Yoda, Picard and maybe the other guy left standing would gang up on him- and good luck seducing Yoda.

4. My thoughts on what would happen in the Final 7 Game:

-Vader would be knocked out first and easily
-Same happens to Kirk, Picard feigns an alliance then stabs him
-Picard gets maybe eight, but is stabbed by either Yoda or Palpat.
-Obi-Wan teams with Yoda
-Palpatine is biggest on the board
-Data is a dark horse, a 7-center state that just stays out of it
-Palpatine goes after Data, and gets half his land
-The other three gang up on Palpatine, and knock him out
-Just before Palpatine goes out, Obi-Wan stabs Yoda with Data's help, in deep in Yoda territory, and Yoda responds strongly

Can't figure out the rest, but you can see my thought process....

Standings with 2 hours left:

Yoda- 7
Picard- 5
Obi-Wan- 4
Data- 3
Vader- 3

Palpatine
(whom you forgot to include in this last set of standings)

Oh, yeah, sorry. So, with that vote, the Standings with 90 min.:

Yoda- 7
Picard- 6 (He's vote, I'll make it close- he IS better than Data)
Obi-Wan- 4
Palpatine- 4
Data- 3
Vader- 3
Kirk- 2

30 minutes- PLEASE- someone support Picard!

(Not that I don't love Yoda, but let's make things interesting.)

Time's up- and Yoda WINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why don't we play it out? You know like role playing... I know it might be seen as a tiny bit nerdy to play online diplomacy pretending to be Star Trek/Wars characters, but I'm up for it...

Err.. Well.. If you find enough people, do as you wish. :) I am more amused by obiwanobiwan's perspective of how the game would go. I enjoyed this thread, even if it was nerdy, but now while it's decided and while it looks like we have some more Jedi than Starfleet personnel on phpdip, I would like to comment on Signalsevens analysis of Palpatine. It is quite a remarkable scenario, you are drawing, but I would expect him to fail earlier. It is not that I disagree with your analysis of the Star Wars characters.

There is simply one single reason for it. As nice as Palpatine plotted the fall of the Republic, the situation of a diplomacy game is quite different. There is small chance to double-play a gray eminence and fight yourself in a Diplomacy-game unless you also assume that Palpatine covertly plays several countries. His chance to win while tricking the Republic into a Civil War with the Separatists is simply based on his position prior to Phantom Menace. To him it's originally a win-win scenario, his stab works almost perfect and this is spoiled by Yoda, which makes his downfall even worse. So in Star Wars universe, Palpatine goes up to your 17 SCs, agreed, but only via multiaccounting. ;) In a diplomacy game with provided power positions, it guess it would be quite another thing.

I will start off with obiwanobiwan and his Data love.

You might be under the assumption that I am anti-Data. This is just not the case. I never stated that data was weak minded. In fact when I mentioned that depending on the Jedi Data was facing could make him more vulnerable was due to the fact that there were Jedi and dark Jedi who could control machines on a circuitry level. Meaning that Data’s will has nothing to do with it. Even R2-D2 was controlled at one point in this manner. You are also correct that anyone can be ganged up on.
However, if a player is able to influence the entire board than the only person who can’t be controlled will be the first target.

Now on to Palpatine.

Big Papa Palp was the ultimate Multi-Account abuser.

His other account names are Vader, Anakin Skywalker, Darth Sidious , General Veers', The Trade Federation, Count Dooku. The Republic Senate, The Jedi Council, General Grievous, Confederacy of Independent Systems, Nute Gunray. Rune Haako. Clone Troopers, Stormtroopers, Gilramos Libkath. San Hill. Poggle the Lesser. Sun Fac. Wat Tambor. Shu Mai. Cat Miin. Passel Argente. Denaria Kee. Po Nudo. Shi'do. Tikkes. Rogwa Wodrata. Grand Moff Tarkin, Grand Moff Disra, Bail Antilles, Lott Dod, Ainlee Teem, Captain Lorth Needa, Dr. Qwi Xux, Admiral Daala, Grand Admiral Thrawn, General Grievous, Mara Jade, Darth Maul, and Smart Jason.

He still loses to Yoda but my theory is sound that he would come in close behind. If you look at the Star Wars universe after Palpatine’s fall his Empire never fell it only got smaller. In fact when a bigger threat came the New republic called on the assistance of the Empire for help. So it’s very true that beign allies in life, sci-fi or Diplomacy is all based on timing.

wait, remember you can't mind-control battle droids? you have to control their whole computer.

ah sheesh, yoda could just force control data's every move as he wrote/clicked his orders. when it comes to strength with the force, yoda pwnzers them all!!!

bump

See, Wonderllama is on the right track. :)

Wow- debate AFTER the contest. lol

I like Signalseven's idea with Palpatine being a multi-account user. THAT WOULD probably happen.

the wonderllama, (by the way- see, you should've ignored my stab attempt and stuck me in that last game vs. Turkey! lol) if Yoda tried to Force Control Data's writing down the answer, he'd just link his positronic brain to a computer and download his orders directly onto PhpDiplomacy! :P

We should do another one of these- what's another good genre?