I advise typing out first posts fore posting thread titles...

Dman it 2WL, beat me to it...

Don't you eat that yellow snow.

No, it's not ethical for you to offer people a "treatment" that involves transfusing urine into their bloodstream. You're a monster.

I will not link to the relevant game, because I am asking about an anonymous game currently ongoing. I am trying to ask the question in a way that does not identify the game, and I am currently playing enough anonymous games that I hope it will not be possible to figure out which game I am talking. Ultimately, given the nature of the decision I have, I believe identifying the game would not change anything.

In this game, I am in a position where I am trying to get a win, and the remaining players are trying to stop me from getting a win. The current position is unclear -- according to the correct rules of Diplomacy, I do not force a win, and the other players do not have the ability to force a draw. Depending upon our moves, we'll reach one of those two results from a fluid position.

However, I have determined that the most likely result of my next two sets of orders will be that I trigger a situation in which webDip decides that I have won the game, but I have not -- I would be taking advantage of a bug. This is also my best shot to attempt to win the game from a fluid position -- if the bug were not there, it's the set of orders I would submit in an attempt to win, but I would not win in the next two turns. Submitting any other set of orders is vastly inferior, to the point that it almost (but not quite) forces a draw.

Given this situation, what is the most ethical way to proceed? Would you submit orders that are your best set of Diplomacy orders but are likely to trigger the bug, or would you avoid it knowing it changes an unclear position to a draw? For that matter, there is a third option -- I can *force* a win given the existence of the bug, via moves that would not get me a win under other circumstances.

So, I'm coming to y'all for some advice here. What do you think is the most ethical way to proceed?

If you didn't have that third option, I would say that one ethical way to proceed would be to make sure that the other players understand the ramifications of the bug, and then consider it part of the game.

However, since you can actually force a tainted win at this point, just letting the other players know doesn't really buy you anything.

I assume this has to do with the bug where the win conditions are checked before the retreats. Is it possible for you to give up another center to make up for the extra temporary one, that can be easily retaken in the Spring? That might be one way around it.

But I guess I'd say, just go for the win. You will be doing the site a favor by causing more outcry about this egregious bug. Consider this the WebDip rules variant.

THe bug affects everyone evenly, right? If situations were reversed someone else would be winning on hte same glicth. No ethical quandry if the computer screwed up an said you win when you were on the way to doing so, who cares?

i'm mostly with crazy. I also hope this bug can be resolved; don't know why victory would be calculated before the adjustment phase... but it shouldn't be hard to fix.

I'd be interested in knowing what this "bug" is (once the game is over, of course), but for the time being i'd say go for the win as long as the orders are the same you would've submitted even if you didn't know of the glitch.

it checks the win condition before retreats. In the real rules, it checks the win condition AFTEER retreats

I figured it would be something along those lines.
Still go for it, I highly doubt you'll be the only one out there exploiting it.

It sounds like there's consensus that there's nothing wrong with winning this way if it happens naturally. Mind if I ask how many of you would force a win via this, um, "rules variant"? I think I'm likely going to end up making my most natural moves and accept that this is strong possibility, but not take the forced "win by variant".

I think you should just play the game as you would regularly do if the bug wasn't there. If the results are screwed up, it's not your fault and there nothing you can do about that. My last win came off the same situation - see gameID=85524. I knew about the bug and didn't pay much attention to the retreats that were going to follow the diplomacy phase, so I misordered my army in Moscow to Sevastopol instead of St. Petersburg and England should have been allowed to retreat there from Norway, thus taking away my 18th center and possibly my win. People were pretty upset with the bug after the game and I understand their frustration, but I can't say I felt it made it any less deserved.

@CStein: Out of curiosity, and without revealing anything, is this a situation that you will take a supply cetner and forcing a retreat? if yes, then considering the options from around it, can the person retreat to another SC? if he can, then the bug shouldn't happen. If there are only non-SC spaces around the SC in question, then the "bug" is theoretically doing the right thing....

@Favio: I'm talking about a situation in which the bug would make the difference between an immediate win and a position in which, following the retreat, I would not immediately win, and depending upon other moves, it is likely that I could not force a win but my opponents could not force a draw, so that it would take additional turns to determine the right outcome.

In a game where lying and deceiving is the ruling moral you may go for the win. Or gain good karma and go for the draw...
On the other hand maybe it is better to go for the win to point out the bug and the urge for resolving it.

It is bitter to see a football match won by penalties after extra time, but then again it is a part of the game. Maybe a voting may help to keep the bug or to resolve it

Thanks everybody for the advice. I decided to play the moves I would in Diplomacy, not "Diplomacy plus variant", and i made the right set of guesses, so the bug won't come up.

That said, I think it's about one line of code to fix. If you need me to fix it, I will do it myself...

For the record, I'd take advantage of it as well. Most of the players know about the bug (which shoul have been fixed looooong ago) and if they lose as a result, then so be it.

In FtF games, players have the option to concede to an "inevitable"win (hence Edi Birsan's belief that if you have to get to 18 centers, your diplomacy has failed), so exploit away. After all, is it unethical to take a win when someone CDs?

CS, if it's a one line fix then do it. (i can't find the line...)

Install webdip at home, change the code, show that it is working. Simples ;)

The builds are not calculated until after the retreats, so how can it be so hard to move the win determination to that spot in the code? What am I missing?