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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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CSteinhardt (9560 D(B))
21 Jun 12 UTC
Ethical Question
Looking for advice from others on webDip
21 replies
Open
worm (161 D)
21 Jun 12 UTC
The problem of NMRs
What can be done to reduce the problem of NMRs and abandoning players?
28 replies
Open
flc64 (1963 D)
22 Jun 12 UTC
Extra Time Added
I am in several games that are 24 hour periods that now have greater than 24 hours until the next phase.

What's up with that?
4 replies
Open
Tyran (914 D)
22 Jun 12 UTC
World diplomacy match needs players!
gameID=92149 it's a full press world diplomacy match. Needs 3 players in as many hours. Join now please!
2 replies
Open
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
15 Jun 12 UTC
Obama/Department To Halt Deportation of "Dreamer" Illegal Immigrants
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/report-white-house-halt-deportation-young-illegal-immigrants-133800284.html

I applaud this...I think it's a great decision...Obama to give a speech on this shortly around 10:15 Pacific Time. Thoughts on the decision itself and the impact on the 2012 race>
57 replies
Open
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
20 Jun 12 UTC
They Improve Their Appetite When They Exercise (Just As Long As No Skinny People Snicker)
http://shine.yahoo.com/healthy-living/gym-bans-skinny-people-173000110.html
Banning skinny people from a gym...because it "brings down morale"...
Isn't that sort of like getting rid of all the smart kids in class because it makes the schmucks who think "The Day After Tomorrow" is scientifically accurate feel badly when they fail? WHEN did the West develop this "fear of failure" self-esteem issue?
93 replies
Open
NigeeBaby (100 D(G))
22 Jun 12 UTC
A message of hope for Diablo fans
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-18532670
0 replies
Open
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
21 Jun 12 UTC
There Can Be Only One--Which Actors/Films Pull Off The Character Best?
The many Bonds...the many Doctors...the different Darens...different Marx Bros. and Stooges...the many Hamlets and Holmes...the originals and remakes and re-imaginings...

Give a role with multiple actors, or a story with multiple adaptations, and say which one you take over the other(s) and why...which are the DEFINITIVE portrayals and films, and which are...not? ;)
21 replies
Open
NigeeBaby (100 D(G))
22 Jun 12 UTC
Is this GunBoat perfection?
7 replies
Open
Leonidas (635 D)
21 Jun 12 UTC
Attention participants of ***Egos Aside*** GUNBOAT
we have made the roster available to everyone so that there is no advantage of any sort to anyone....
two of you are not identified, check this thread out to add your user name please, or just add it here...... thanks

threadID=887469
1 reply
Open
0ri0n (0 DX)
21 Jun 12 UTC
What is Christianity?
Obviously, I know that its like one of the most popular religion out there but coming from a very anti-christian background, I dont really know what they actually believe. I know the basics like that Jesus is God but like how do you get into heaven and stuff? This is NOT a debating forum.
86 replies
Open
redhouse1938 (429 D)
21 Jun 12 UTC
Crisis and democracy
Brace yourselves
2 replies
Open
Invictus (240 D)
21 Jun 12 UTC
Could China Annex the Moon?
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/06/18/red_moon_rising?page=full
18 replies
Open
Thucydides (864 D(B))
11 Jun 12 UTC
Jazz
Talk about jazz
46 replies
Open
Fortress Door (1837 D)
21 Jun 12 UTC
WTA GB-21
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=92419
1 reply
Open
SweetnessFSU (127 D)
21 Jun 12 UTC
Leave game
how can you leave a game after it starts?
3 replies
Open
Bbrett93 (100 D)
20 Jun 12 UTC
The Contention Centers: Belgium, Sweden, and Greece
In my opinion, these three centers cause the most drama in 1901.
Who has the most claim to them, and how do you negotiate your nations units into them?
14 replies
Open
fortknox (2059 D)
21 Jun 12 UTC
Diplomacy Class 1 discussion
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=82023#gamePanel
A bit embarrassing that it ends in a 2-way if it is called a 'class', but I'm interested in other's thoughts. There are some frustrations I had with the game, but I'm not bitter because I lost. Feel free to share your feelings, especially to the 8 (we had a sub) that played.
2 replies
Open
hammac (100 D)
21 Jun 12 UTC
Joan Baez
Saw Joan Baez at the Zenith in Caen (France) last night!
Abxolutely superb and she's 71. Still believable in her support for the beliefs and causes that she's been fighting for over so many years.

1 reply
Open
Zmaj (215 D(B))
20 Jun 12 UTC
EoG: Gunboat-326
gameID=92320 The unglorious rape of France.
18 replies
Open
joshildinho101 (128 D)
21 Jun 12 UTC
Quick game gameID=92351
0 replies
Open
emfries (0 DX)
21 Jun 12 UTC
Which is Better: Remix or Original?
The original: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1cxP2nCBdU
The remix: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlnS6KfskbU
I hate rap music, but given that it's made by a few goons from my hometown, I gave it a chance. Debate.
0 replies
Open
Sargmacher (0 DX)
20 Jun 12 UTC
How can you deal with obtuse 'morons' who will never give credit to opposing arguments?
Serious question. When you're debating, discussing, or arguing with people and they simply won't accept other points of view, even after reams of evidence, how can you respond? Is it best just to walk away or should we strive to educate?

How would you deal with someone utterly convinced that the Earth was flat, for example?
54 replies
Open
hellalt (70 D)
20 Jun 12 UTC
Webdiplomacy.net FB Fan page
in case you didn't know there is one :P
Join it at http://www.facebook.com/webdiplomacy
0 replies
Open
Sbyvl36 (439 D)
20 Jun 12 UTC
How old is the Earth?
How old do you think the world is? Do you believe the scientists (Billlions of years) or do you think its only few thousand years old. Give me your entire argument
96 replies
Open
zultar (4180 DMod(P))
20 Jun 12 UTC
Histrionic Personality Disorder
Read and think of anyone on here who might perhaps have this.
25 replies
Open
King Atom (100 D)
20 Jun 12 UTC
will i go to hell for posting cheating accusations in the forum?
Also, who's nietzscheptzhedkfj? is he knew?
18 replies
Open
Draugnar (0 DX)
19 Jun 12 UTC
Anyone here get into darts?
I've been watching some late night darts on ESPN2 or some such. And it really looks like an enjoyable combination of throwing skill, math skill, and strategy.
17 replies
Open
Al Swearengen (0 DX)
20 Jun 12 UTC
Winner Takes All vs. Point Distribution
See below.
Al Swearengen (0 DX)
20 Jun 12 UTC
Hey. I'm curious what people's fascination is with WTA games? My suspicion is that people who join WTA games are either expecting a win and hoping for a big point payout, or else they are just hoping for a really fun, spirited match.

In either case though, a WTA game is almost certainly not going to land you what you're hoping for. For example, one should consider that the most likely outcome of a WTA match is a draw. Once it becomes apparent to the majority of players (partway through the game) that they are not really high in the runnings for a victory, their strategic objective shifts from a decisive victory to simply creating or enforcing a gridlock. There is no point advantage to being second place in a WTA game -- second place is merely the first looser. As such this cuts out the likelihood of a solo-victory with a high payout to the winner.

The other counter-intuitive non-advantage rises from the fact that there is very little motive on the part of players to engage in Machiavellian subterfuges. One guy is trying to push for the solo victory, while the rest of the board just either gives up peevishly or tries to gridlock things.

Oh, and WTA games are not realistic, anyway. Statecraft is not a zero-sum game.

Thoughts?

Point-Distributed games encourage fiercer competition, as well as livelier endgames, despite the fact that this may seem counterintuitive.
Fortress Door (1837 D)
20 Jun 12 UTC
... HOW

in PPSC, people are ENCOURGAED to go for a strong second

in WTA. It DISCOURAGES that
ghug (5068 D(B))
20 Jun 12 UTC
Most of the top players on the site will strongly disagree with you here, thought you do make a few convincing points that I haven't seen before.

My problem with PPSC is that the first person to reach a certain threshold of about 10-14 centers will win the game, because it is impossible to convince enough people to work against a would-be soloist when they have nothing to lose by merely growing at the same time and taking a strong survive.

WTA makes the game more difficult to win, requiring careful positioning and exceptional diplomacy, capitalizing in vengeful urges of powers in key positions and making your threat less apparent until it's too late.

I encourage you to try some WTA games with some fierce competition, as I think you'll enjoy it more, but if you prefer PPSC, feel free to continue playing it, as it is just a game with the sole purpose of enjoyment.
Draugnar (0 DX)
20 Jun 12 UTC
Exactly. WTA is like the original boardgame in which there werr no points and everyone strove to win or stop the win. Playing for strong second is a bastardized version of the game and only wins and draws versus survives and defeats count to real us old school purists.
Stressedlines (1559 D)
20 Jun 12 UTC
I 100% prefer WTA. The dynamics of a game can shift VERy fast with WTA, as people who were fighting from turn 1, can quickly bury the hatchet, to prevent the solo.

Sure, the lure of the big pot is good also, but just the way it forces you to watch EVERYTHING on the board, so you can be sure what you are doing to one nation, is not actually helping another nation gain a solo
spyman (424 D(G))
20 Jun 12 UTC
"Point-Distributed games encourage fiercer competition, as well as livelier endgames"

I have played both and I have always found the opposite to be true. In PPSC once one player gets ahead it can seem like the other players give up. I played my first game of Diplomacy on Facebook - and I won. It was PPSC and I found that once I became the most powerful power on the board, all the other powers were falling over themselves wanting to help me so they could maximize their SC count, instead of working together to stop me. I won but I found it a hollow victory.

WTA on the other hand is much more challenging. It is very hard to win but when someone pulls if off in a "good game" it is a beautiful thing. It can also be a challenge getting the other powers to stop fighting amongst themselves to stop the winner.

That said, I think there is a place for PPSC. I think it is silly to join a PPSC game and then get annoyed with other players who play for second. Accept the premises of the game and play accordingly.
Stressedlines (1559 D)
20 Jun 12 UTC
My attitude changes a lot when I play PPSC vs WTA. In WTA, i am much more guarded, and defensive, in PPSC, I tend to play a lot more free, without restraints.
2ndWhiteLine (2606 D(B))
20 Jun 12 UTC
"Oh, and WTA games are not realistic, anyway. Statecraft is not a zero-sum game."

So WTA Diplomacy isn't realistic because it isn't true statecraft? Isn't that a bit like calling Monopoly unrealistic because you can't buy entire streets in Atlantic City?
King Atom (100 D)
20 Jun 12 UTC
Haven't we had this argument countless times before?
The point is that different people make the games as they please and if you don't like a certain way, then just don't join a game like that. Yes, WTA has certain effects on players' attitude that are typically different from PPSC. But if you're going to play a game, why not just play your very best and try to get as many points as you can no matter the game setting?

When I play PPSC, I don't usually try for second, I try for a win...or at least a Draw. I want to get as many points (or more) as everyone else. The same goes for WTA, I don't care what the situation is, if I can't win, then I'm going to push for a Draw.

Anyway, it seems very trite to argue about the points of each game setting.
I like the fact that WTA pushes people towards draws. PPSC makes winning too easy.
Rancher (1652 D(S))
20 Jun 12 UTC
I like playing WTA best, but Draugar and others know my extremely strong view that both are just variants and that the reality of playing the board game is much more like PPSC
Al Swearengen (0 DX)
20 Jun 12 UTC
Thank you for posting, everyone. You've given me a lot to think about.

@ghugh, Thank you. I'll try a few WTA games and see how it goes.
Draugnar (0 DX)
20 Jun 12 UTC
While I agree with Rancher that anything using points is a variant, I disagree about PPSC being closer to the F2F game. In my experience both in home games and in tournaments, WTA is closer to the face to face experience. No one wants to come in second in F2F. They want to win or stop someone else from winning. Therefore, WTA is more true to the F2F game.
spyman (424 D(G))
20 Jun 12 UTC
I have never played in f2f tourney but I remember the diplomacy podcast guys talking about various scoring systems and one of them sounded like PPSC.
Octavious (2701 D)
20 Jun 12 UTC
PPSC and WTA are damned near identical in style unless you're playing in games with a large buy-in. I personally greatly prefer games in which points aren't any motivation (ie buy ins of less than about a dozen points) so generally have no preference. Games involving people who care about winning points have a nasty habit of being sad and depressing.
fortknox (2059 D)
20 Jun 12 UTC
PPSC was all we had back a long time ago. What people say are true, getting a strong second meant a lot more solo's, because point values were the big deal. Even I was guilty of helping a solo as long as I got a good strong second...

Now, having said that, points aren't what matters as much as Ghost Rating, so WTA/PPSC... it all means poppycock to most veteran players... you'll see more grunge match over a 35 point game if all the players are top 25 GR...
Draugnar (0 DX)
20 Jun 12 UTC
fortknox is spot on. I actually find the best games are challenges/invitationsals. They have nothing to do with points and everythign to do with honor/prestige/bragging rights and nobody *ever* brags about coming in second. :-)


17 replies
jmbostwick (2308 D)
19 Jun 12 UTC
England Gunboat Strategy
First in a series of threads discussing country-specific tactics for gunboat (no-messaging) games.
32 replies
Open
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