@Krellin, you said 'You (as is typical of your ilk) make these broad-based "the US sucks and all it's wars"...then you get pinned into a corner and have to admit some were good....

I said: "I'd like to see you provide an example of a succeffuly 'boots on the ground' mission from the past 100 years." This was in reference to

"Invasions...subverted one culture to another"

Thus Tibet IS a good example. Kuwait is not, the Falklan is not, the Influence which the Soviet Union had on Eastern Russia after World war 2 IS.

The influence the US had on South Korea, Japan and Western Europe since world war 2 was continued NOT through 'boots on the ground' but investment, trade, democracy and propoganda.

And that wasn't an invasion it was a liberation of allied nations. Only germany was invaded. So i applaud the re-arming of German and Japan, the rebuilding of the economies after the war a a successful mission which wouldn't have been possible without first sending in troops, BUT the troops didn't start it, they were sent in AFTER Japan attacked pearl harbour.

If Iran launched a war attacks on American militrary bases all over the middle east then the arguement for 'boots on the ground' would be a different one. (and this was where this whole conversation started, whether ofr not the US should invade Iran) Currently you were not advocating waiting trying diplomacy until Iran provokes a stronger responce, Krellin wants to see the US invade as it did in Iraq and Afghanistan.

@Orthaic -- You - once again - are a blithering IDIOT! There would BE NO INFLUENCE in South Korea, Japan and Western Europe WITHOUT FIRST THERE BEING BOOTS ON THE GROUND. God - You have got to be the stupidest person on here. You argue against yourself constantly. Really...pathetic. Normally you are better than this.

OK, the US invasion of western Europe (well allied invasion) was a defensive war against someone else who started it.

Re-invading someone who fought the invasion in the first place is different.

The US (or anyone else) didn't just go and invade South Korea, Japan and Western Europe. They were attacked first.

What were the four thigns about Tibet? Mass migration, Trade, decades of miltrary investment/occupation, and a peaceful people.

Well Western Europe had instead, Trade, economic investment, and a peaceful people (at least they were peaceful toward the Americans because they had been rescued from the Nazis) No mass migration, so the cultural influence was done by TV and film, and Western Europe is not today as integrated into the American empire as Tibet is to China, so all in all a less successful subversion.

Now if you can get about four major factors then you might have another successful 'boots on the ground' mission.

The MAJOR one being peaceful/loving people. I bet the next nation the US invades will love the invaders, just like Iraq and Afghanistan before it. (sorry i'm assuming it will be the US, Russia recently invaded two places where the people did kinda love them, but they were mostly seperartists who claimed dual russian citizenship... i imgaine Puerto Rico would be the close-est US equivalent.)

Everyone in Japan and Western Europe love the United States, not to mention the various crimes committed by US soldiers /diplomatic attaches. South Korea is special because they have North Korea right on their doorstep, despite South Korea having the ability to crush North Korea on their own.

The US is good friends with Ireland, India, Poland and Turkey, yet no 'boots on the ground' there.

The US had their fingers in Colombia, Guatemala, Chile, Venezuela, Cuba (basically most of Central-South America) and large parts of Africa (not to mention the CIA gave massive help to the Apartheid government). The citizens of these countries love the US, and cannot wait for military bases to be installed (I'll grant a concession with Colombia, as they are fighting FARC, but even locals have shown dislike to DynCorp employees staioned there).

God, krellin, you are such a whiney little fuck it makes me embarassed to be your countryman.

God, Bob, you're such an unpatriotic fuck. I'm embarassed to be your countrymen. funny how you never take offense at all the foreign fucks constantly bitching about how terrible the US is, you moron.

Yeah, patriotism! Whoooo! What's that? Do I hear all the ghost of WW1 veterans, dead German and Soviet soldiers, all the victims of imperialism crying? No, they were all proud to serve their nation; they can't be sad, looking back at all the destruction patriotism has caused.
Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it.- George Bernard Shaw
I would like to be remembered as a man who served his country.- Augusto Pinochet
I want you to know that everything I did, I did for my country.- Pol Pot
I am not going to repent. I am not going to ask for favours. What I did, I did for my country.- P.W. Botha
Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.- Dr Samuel Johnson. Ambrose Pierce (an American) disagreed, he called it the first refuge.
To me, it seems a dreadful indignity to have a soul controlled by geography.- George Santayana (an American).

@Largeham +1

@Crazy: Fair enough

@Krellin: arguing for my beliefs, which you do as well, is NOT the same as imposing them on anyone. Apologies for no getting the irony in your post. However, the essence of my point stands: I am an atheist and am not painting with a broad brush therefore your argument that all atheists do so is a load of rubbish.

krellin-

Why should I take offense at foreigners disagreeing with US policy when more or less, I think they're right. Whereas morons who want to put American boots on the ground everywhere that slightly displeases them seem to have learned nothing from history. Now that destructive technology has spread around the world and just about anyone can get access to a Kalashnikov or enough explosives to create a reasonable mine, the age of empires is done. We spend a quarter of a million dollars per hut we blow up in weedy little third world countries. They spend about 50 bucks blowing up our 60,000 dollar humvees, usually stocked with troops that cost anywhere between 10,000 and 50,000 per head to train, and usually in the high thirties, low forties to pay and keep in benefits. Do the freaking math. Soft power is the only way to sustainably get our will.

Look at Vietnam, for example. We bomb the shit out of a barely industrialized people for 10-15 years, and got our asses handed to us strategically. We leave, let them live the way they want to for 15 years, and now the make our Nikes and 70% of them want to live exactly like Americans. Once we stopped giving them reasons to hate us, they love us and seek to emulate us. There's a very pointed lesson in there, if you aren't to enamored with big explosions or too insecure in your own culture to tolerate the occasional "fuck off" by another culture to notice it.

@BobG +1

@BobG actually +2 because of the economic analysis.

The Chinese are busy running all over Africa signing deals to develop infrastructure in return for guaranteed access to resources in the future. The US would do a lot better spending its money to compete in this sphere than trying to remake the Middle East the way you want it.