An armed force, even in disarray, would have no problem conquering an undefended territory. Who's gonna stand up to the guys with the guns and the canons and the tanks.

Also, who said they were in disarray?
Just because you're being pushed back doesn't mean you've lost formation

It's unsportsmanlike!

idea: don't dislodge a unit next to an undefended SC

Say, why don't you play chess? The pieces can't retreat at all in chess.

@PE: I would do that, but when I dislodge something, it's normally on another one of my SC's or directly threatening one. Or two.

@Parallelpiped: It's summer. Who's going to want to play chess in summer?

Ok. Fine. But this is diplomacy, and diplomacy rules state that if you retreat, you can retreat to an open SC.

If you don't like diplomacy, I suggest checkers.

Exactly. Or, create standoffs in appropriate locations. If there's a hole in your defenses, that's your problem. And as regards being pushed back, in my understanding of the game there is no actual conflict. You will notice the game takes place before 1914. It's more a case of "please move or we will fight you with a force twice the size of your own". The only case of real fighting is if the army literally has no place to retreat to, in which case it gets destroyed. The whole game is based on occupation as I see it, in which case it makes sense that a disloged army could choose the place of its retreat, and reasonably retreat to any spot, supply center or no.

I'm also pretty sure that irl you can't convoy an army from Northern Russia to Turkey in the same time it takes to move and army from Belgium to Holland.

Ok, THAT makes sense Graeme. It still pisses me off, but it makes sense.

It's not a realistic military simulation. The units don't necessarily represent literal armies and fleets; they represent diplomatic influence. Certainly, boots on the ground are part of diplomatic influence, but the game is primarily about more than just moving pieces around.

Hang on, you're pissed off because in this circumstance you can't win because the rules weren't written just for you?

I get really pissed of when my opponents are allow to make moves. I mean, come on!

@Abge - na you're wrong, the navy just don't want you to know :P

I hate it when the mods don't just fix things so I win - yes Ghost, I'm looking at you.

Well, half a year ought to be enough time to do it either way, no?

What 7000 miles at 15 knots is approx 411 hours is 17 days steaming day and night. An army marching ~4mph could march for 12 hours a day so 50 miles a day 250 miles is 5 days? Either way we are talking about each game turn being 6 months. Definitely plenty of time for either the convoy or the march to succeed.

implying I do :S

@Graeme: that's a way too look at it. But if you look at a disband in the big map, you'll see the victorious army unit pictured by a firing tank. This suggests there was a fight, and the dislodged unit lost.

@Graeme

It's 1/4 of a year, not half.

I'm not sure Calhamer had the big map to hand when he wrote the rules so he might not have incorporated the firing tank aspect into the game.

two moves each year... seems like half a year each to me

But the rules are quite clear that it's too hot to campaign in summer and too muddy in winter.

"Say, why don't you play chess? The pieces can't retreat at all in chess" What it's been a long time since i played chess, have they changed the rules?

I always think of a dislodged unit as the Czech Legion <http://militaryhistory.suite101.com/article.cfm/the_czech_legion_19171920>. You never know where they'll end up.

Not sure how long it's been. The most recent rule change was en-passant, I think.

It's funny how some people don't want to play the game as it actually is, but how they wish it were. And, unsportsmanlike? Maybe, but this is a game not a sport. Gamesmanship is an whole other concept from sportsmanship.

It's not unsportsmanlike to retreat to an undefended SC. That rule is in the game for a reason. It prevents aggressors from expanding too quickly and being unable to back themselves up strongly enough. If someone has been able to retreat to one of your supply centres, you've made a tactical error and are now paying for it. That would be like saying it's unsportsmanlike for a hockey player to score a goal against a team who took the goalie off the ice so they could have 6 players.
And I disagree with Zeno Izen as well. Sportsmanship is still important in diplomacy. It's a matter of stabbing, and being stabbed with good grace. I always try to show good sportsmanship in Diplomacy, but I'm not always successful. Getting stabbed can be frustrating.

A remember a thread like this. Someone had a clever comment that went like this, "An army will retreat to wherever there is shelter, food, and women."

"If you don't like diplomacy, I suggest checkers." +1 rlumley

I'm easily the most vulgar angry pissy person when I get stabbed or lose....... I'm trying to improve.

Actually I'm in the game da is talking about. Germany retreated and took my land (could have been stopped by da didn't listen to me.....) it was our first game ever so we pretty much got fucked by it. What's annoying is that he acts like I was the evil aggressor nation and I. Screwed him over....... when france took all his supply centers. Otherwise I. Applaud it as an impressive will to survive

I don't find retreating to an undefended SC stupid. However, I do find disbanding a dislodged unit far away from home so that you can build a new one at home kind of odd. It feels like you have teleportation (and possibly even changing it from an army to a fleet or vice versa!) at the beginning of the 20th century.

Yes it is unrealistic. The other thing that I find unrealistic is that a French army should have the same strength as a German army. A German army should be worth 1.5 French armies, or 2 Italian armies.

I thought Double A was joking a first. But not the first who did not understand that this is just an abstract game. Good one spyman. What of the other powers.

@gold: The only thing on that annoys me like that is that you can't forcibly destroy your own units.

If you don't like a rule, set up a variant that doesn't include it. If the variant catches on, then you can have your game. Otherwise this change will die a sad lonely death.

Indeed. I was thinking of making a webDip 0.75 variant