Actually, Ivo, I'd be very interested to know how you got the password for that game. (gameID=4613). Since every person in that game EXCEPT you, has never posted on the forum, or sent a message in game, and has only one game - that one.

rlumley, I do appreciate the effort. I have been checked for multi-accounting before, primarily based on games like this, so I am careful what I join now.

I've taken over CDs from positions where someone was a multi and went on to win afterwards, I've been also eliminated in games from multis, this is what I meant by luck. I'm sure if I go through your games I'd also find some games where you benefited from multis. That's also luck.

The fact that you're taking this personally and are mental and persistent enough to review 227 games... means you should be right! :)

I don't argue with people like you. The doctor told me so.

To respond to the specific accusation - I joined this site, as many others - via a friend who told me about it. In the beginning we mostly played private games among ourselves. Sadly, apart from KIV, noone else remained. We haven't played a game with each-other since (~18 months ago). Those are all very old games.

From what I see we've only played one game, which I won as ENG, killing you (GER) along the way. Were there some multis helping me there?

I still find it slightly suspicious that they all CDed at the exact same time, in a passworded game. If that was a game you took over CD from a multi, how did you get the password. And if you were playing with your friends, why did they all leave at the exact same time? And why did they all have very similar names?

And I'm not at all taking this personally. You're the one who made it personal, referring the only game we've played together (And btw, I had played about ten diplomacy games at that point, and still didn't entirely know the rules). You'll note that I never once said that you weren't a good player, or that I said I was better than you. I'm probably not. I'm really not that great at this game - I enjoy it, but I'm generally pretty blunt and to the point. Which isn't exactly how you're supposed to play the game. :-)

But I digress. You never answered my questions though. Do you genuinely believe that the games I mentioned above should be included in, say, the Ghost Rating? If I were MadMarx or one of the other "top guys" I'd be pretty ticked off that you're beating me because of some games where you (And let's assume you're innocent) benefited to an enormous degree from multis?

Hehehehehe... I actually remember that game. I decided to open Mun > Boh > Vie, just to see what would happen. And it worked. For a little bit. :-)

There were a few games where people went CD, we'd had a whole conversation about how blatently they were multi's, and there were a couple where we all tried guessing the passwords.

Are you saying Ivo succeeded in guessing the password? I'm confused as to your point figle...

I know someone "famous" did it back then, can't remember who it was though

rlumley, I don't have to report to you on any of my passed games, who put you in charge here? As for the personal part - I didn't agree with you point and you accused me of cheating :)

Do I need to explain why this is immature and cheap? :)

This particular game, if I remember correctly, was played with colleagues from work, who didn't really fall for it and left. Hope you can sleep better now :)

I'm not responding to any of you nonsense anymore.

No one put me in charge. I have questions, and I would like answers. That's what the forum is for.

Your defensiveness only gives me more reason to think you are guilty of something.

My point (still) stands: Do you actually think you deserve credit for those games, regardless of whether or not you were involved in the multi-accounting?

@ rlumley when you are made a mod feel free to look into Ivo, until then shut the hell up. and having played with him I am confident that even if he did cheat to win points he is still one of the best players on the site and there is not a player on this site who does not have one or two suspicious games on their record. Just leave it alone while you are behind.

I probably don't, but this is not the right question.

I'm not a mod, but I've played a lof ot games, all over the spectrum. From what I've seen the policy here has always been "If you can't prove it beyond reasonable doubt and if you can't make it a universal rule, don't do it".

I like this approach, not only in here. This is a concept rule that, actually, a lot of our society and laws are based upon and yet you seem to be unable to grasp it at all?

And I see you continue with the cheap shots :)

I don't know if you're twelve, a redneck from Kansas, or just intellectually impaired, but your questions clearly indicate your a really dumb asshole, which is a lethal combination :)

@jmo, thanks for the backup, though you somehow implied me guilty and proclaimed the crime ok :). I've had my suspicious games, but it was the meta-gaming kind, before we realized it was a stupid idea to mix games with both friends and strangers.

I clearly remember being investigated for multi-accounting by Kestas himself, who was kind enough to refer to me as their guinea pig :)

So, rlumley can speculate all he wants for all I care.

How did we get here? This was suppose to be about a cancelation of a game involving definite multis and now y'all are arguing if others have multied and Mods are saying it's ok if it's true because I know him? This was not the point. If I'd have known this would've happened I wouldn't have started it. I thought it was a simple question with a simple answer. Please don't hijak the thread anymore. If y'all want to fight then start your own thread. I'm accepting that cheating is permitted up to a point so everyone else should too. If that's how things are run here then so be it. I still love the game so I don't care about the points or the ghost rating as they don't mean so much. The point is to have fun. Reading this thread I'm not having fun.

@jmo: I'll refer you to what I said earlier. I never said Ivo isn't a spectacular player. I never even said he was a cheater. I just asked for an explanation, an explanation that Ivo has failed to provide. What I don't understand is why you (And him as well, to a certain extent) are being so rude about it.

And sure there are players on this site with no suspicious games on their record. In fact, there are players on this site with no games on their record, whatsoever.

@ Ivo: Thanks for answering the question. That's all I really wanted. And that's fair to say that we should be cautious in canceling games. But I think obvious instances of abuse, like the one game that we're arguing about on your record, and the one that I mentioned on mine should be canceled. I don't see any rational reason to keep games such as these on the books.

And I wasn't aware I was making cheap shots...

But I'm actually 20 years old, a uni student, and pretty smart. :-) And if you really want to bring this to a name-calling battle, I could start criticizing your grammar. But I won't. And I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, that for you, like many on this site, English is probably not your first language. :-) So congrats on speaking two. Because that's more than me. (For now anyway. =D)

@ C-K: I think we got here because Ivo started taking things personally. And my posts have been trying to get it back to the main point (Which I think we've gotten back to). See my reply to Ivo above.

"@ C-K: I think we got here because Ivo started taking things personally. "

I really think that going through a specific player's games to find how he was benefitted from 'tainted' games is personal. Ivo's remark regarding your game together was a one liner with a one line response, your veiled accusations to him are what kept this thread going this way.

In case you don't trust his word, I've checked him out with the multi finder too and there's nothing that indicates any wrongful activities.

Thanks Xapi, but my point wasn't really that he was a multi. I never really thought that a person with 227 games on this site and one of the highest ghost ratings got there by multing and no one found out. My point was that he shouldn't have games like those on his record, and I used those games to make that point. And he (eventually) admitted that he deserved neither the wins, nor the survives/losses that he received from them. Thus my point has been made. :-)

Fair enough. Saying that, we all have games where the result wasn't representative. One of my earliest games was at this time 3 years ago, and despite me being in control the win went to my neighbour. why? because we all went offline over christmas and it turned out he'd been on last.

Well then I don't see why games with obvious instances of multi-accounting shouldn't be canceled when a mod bans a user...

rlumley did not accuse Ivo of being a multi. Ivo over-reacted to rlumley's questions.

I still hold the view that all games which have had multis in them should be cancelled.

Thanks Jamiet. It's a strange world when you're backing me up. :-)

At one point I'm fairly certain passworded games with CDs could be taken over by those who did not have the password.
I've been on this site for a while (I've made a new account and don't use my old one(, and I'm pretty sure I joined a game that was privated, but one member had CDed.
This was before the point system was established, so I'm not entirely sure, but I think that was the case.

@rlumley: "It's a strange world when you're backing me up."

Our disagreements are over world politics. On the subject of the game rules, and this issue in particular, I'm totally on your side.

You couldn't cancel games back then

That's also true Elleynn, you could get in well after the points system started - there were quite a few ways round the password system until recently