Basketball - NBA scoreboard=big ass computer monitor. Does your dog have a chip in him? Takes a computer to read it. Your bile? Probably designed bu a computer as were hour hiking, running, and walking shoes.

And how are you going to get paid? Do you save money in a bank? Got a credit card? What are you using to post on here now?

Bile should be bike

"My job doesn't involve a computer, for one. There is no reason I need a computer to apply ABA therapy to children or for children to get ABA therapy."

You don't use a computer, and yet you payroll is run by a computer, the curriculum or whatever you use are provided to you by computer, the research you get that tells you the latest techniques are all delivered via computer, etc etc etc.

Just because your head is buried in the sand doesn't mean that everything around you isn't impacted by computers.

Without computers and ease of information exchange, Dr. Joe Blow that determined the best methods of dealing with such-and-such a disorder would still be struggling to get his information to the world.

You are such an ignorant fuck, Putin.

You're really reaching here.

Abge - Even if Putin rode a bike to work it was built and delivered with the aide of computers.

"the curriculum or whatever you use are provided to you by computer, the research you get that tells you the latest techniques are all delivered via computer, etc etc etc."

No they aren't. And there is no reason why payroll has to be done by computer. The argument was that nothing could be done without computers. That's a crock.

We aren't reaching. Computers are ubiquitous. The US runs off of computers, just like it runs off of oil, electricity, and cars.

"Even if Putin rode a bike to work it was built and delivered with the aide of computers."

How do you know? I could have a hand made bike.

Of course it doesn't *have* to be, but it *is*. You don't *need* cars or electricity, but they're nice to have. The automobile revolution wasn't any less important because people *could* just keep using horses.

"I could have a hand made bike."

Really? Did you extract the metal from the ground yourself?

"Computers are ubiquitous"

They may be 'ubiquitous' but the value they add to productivity, the economy, or anything else peaked long ago. You're relying on pretty low-tech electronic components in order to make your case that this is a revolutionary technology.

"Of course it doesn't *have* to be, but it *is*. "

But that wasn't what you said. You grossly overstated your case. You said nothing *can* be done without computers in some way. And by can be done you even expanded to mean the use of any product or service that didn't at one point have an electronic component somewhere involved in the production. But even that isn't true.

What about 3 printing? Don't you think that has an opportunity to revolutionize a lot of industries?

" there is no reason why payroll has to be done by computer. The argument was that nothing could be done without computers. That's a crock. "

Well, Putin,you live in 2013, where computers are UBIQUITOUS. Again, you can bury your head in the sand and pretend the world can/does run without the need of computers, but then you will just be showing your incredible ignorance of the world.

The use of computers in Payroll means that the work can be done more efficiently and with greater accuracy, thus requiring fewer people, fewer physical resources, and lowering the overall cost. This means the cost savings can be applied to other things.

Perhaps you are purposely unaware, but the standard of living that you previously touted, which has increased dramatically over the past few decades, has increased the comfort and overall health of a population in large part due to the infusion of computers.

Sure....we COULD live life without computers....go ahead, pack up your shit and go live int he woods. Nobody will miss you. But if you want to participate in modern society and take advantage of its benefits, you will be, by necessity, surrounded by computers.

There are damned few things in your life that are not somewhere along the line affected by computers, including the guidance systems on the ships that bring materials from the slave labor camps overseas.

I may have been unclear. This is what I meant: Currently, there is nothing you can do in the US that hasn't been impacted by computers.

"They may be 'ubiquitous' but the value they add to productivity, the economy, or anything else peaked long ago"

Utterly ridiculous. The development time of products has been cut dramatically due to computer modeling and simulation, auto-code generation, manufacturing that is faster and more precise due to robots controlled by vision systems, etc.

You clearly have no idea how modern engineering and the world of manufacturing operates.

'as a percent of GDP that this industry has had'

- you can't measure the value added to the economy of mothers caring for their children in terms of GDP, because it is largely unpaid work. That doesn't mean there is no value.

And that goes double for the value of wikipedia as a information resource. It is there and it keeps it's utility for years... But it's free to use so you can't measure the 'value' of the contribution to GDP (along with not being able to measure the work put in, because it is run by volunteers, in their spare time - a project not possible before the world wide web revolutionized communications.)

"I may have been unclear. This is what I meant: Currently, there is nothing you can do in the US that hasn't been impacted by computers."

The impact is trivial compared to electricity, automobiles, and petrochemicals.

"The impact is trivial compared to electricity, automobiles, and petrochemicals."

No, it's really not.

Looks like you've decided to keep on baiting Putin33 on his ridiculous point (such that there is one). Nice work, everyone.

Yeah, because the other threads on this site are so thought-provoking...

Saying computers aren't a big deal seems especially absurd, but maybe that's just me.

I think so, too, which is why I'm so curious.

It's Putin being Putin and, by denying computers are important, he can continue to justify in his mind that CS degrees aren't important and that those of us who have them and make good money are stealing from society.

I mean, god damn, the only reason we can even *have* this argument is because of computers.

Odds are, unless he drives a really old car or bike, his means of artificial transportation was *designed* on a computer.

I would imagine that somewhere in the process of mining the metal used in making the car or bicycle, someone used a computing device somewhere. We could be talking anywhere from figuring out the specific dimensions of a mass-produced industrial drill to calculating the return on the different potential mining spots before deciding where to start working... or, humorously enough, it doesn't even have to be *his* vehicle. Another vehicle used to transport the materials used to make his vehicle could have been (and very likely was) designed with computers.

'by denying computers are important, he can continue to justify in his mind that CS degrees aren't important and that those of us who have them and make good money are stealing from society.' - of course, but so long as you cut the rest of us in on the action (*cough* taxation *cough*) then it's all fine with me :p