Putin running roughshod over international law...

Honestly appreciate everyone who called Mapleleaf out on his bullshit.

If I were a rich man,
Yubby dibby dibby dibby dibby dibby dibby dum.
All day long I'd biddy biddy bum.
If I were a wealthy man.
I wouldn't have to work hard.
Yubby dibby dibby dibby dibby dibby dibby dum.
If I were a biddy biddy rich,
Idle-diddle-daidle-daidle man.

Your credibility is on the line here, mods.

No it isn't, mods. You are wholly credible.

If we banned everyone who said something someone(s) else found offensive, there would be no one left on this site to post anything.

Weird, I assumed that mapleleaf was pro-Israel since he was posting those remarks right after comments critical of Israel. It sounded like he was calling anyone critical of Israel antisemitic.

I think you're giving mapleleaf credit for a greater depth of intelligence that he doesn't have, Jece.

It's because jmo1121109 threatened consequences if he continued, Tolstoy. He's continued. Bluff called.

Ah, Putin...

When Israel grabs 1000 acres of land, you fly into a tizzy...

When Putin steals Crimea and wages war on Ukraine--a war everyone here BUT you find to be his fault, and one which he has not deescalated and has thus led to not just massive destruction in Ukraine but the deaths of innocents in the shooting down of a civilian plane--WELL...

Well, THEN, that's just fine, of course!

You know, AT LEAST I was consistent and condemned both, Israel for the stupid, immoral, and disgusting land grab here, and Putin for his actions...

But, of course, you hate one, and love the other...

Because nothing, no, NOTHING can get you to turn on your namesake and admit him to be the bully and butcher the rest of us see him to be.

But really, it's the contradiction that gets me most...

1000 acres for Israel?
Disgusting!
Crimea plus whatever they can snatch out of Eastern Ukraine via rebels for Putin?
A-OK!

And oh, maple...you so cute...

We shouldn't even be having an argument about this. One state invaded its neighbor and annexed the neighbor's territory. That is illegal. End of story.

It's another war of aggression by Russia, pure and simple. First Putin peeled off chunks of Georgia. Now he's stolen Ukraine and is openly waging war in the east of Ukraine. What's next?

Just another of the rolling foreign policy disasters of Obama's second term. He ought to just resign at this point. It's not as if he's anything like an effective leader anymore. I'll risk ten years of President Biden if we at least have a hand on the till again.

Stolen Crimea. A part of Ukraine.

Ukraine was broken by the current government in Kiev more so than by Russia. In the period before the crisis Ukraine was a democracy which, whilst far from perfect, at least allowed people to believe their vote mattered.

When the Western rebels in Kiev overthrew the president this belief was shattered. It became clear to the Russian friendly Ukrainians in the East that Kiev didn't give a damn about them and democracy was essentially denied to them. It was that which destroyed Ukraine, and we in the West supported it.

Yeah, it was the all-powerful West that put Ukraine in the situation it's in now, not the Russian war of aggression. Give me a break.

I mean seriously. We have Russia waging war on its weaker neighbor for territorial expansion and all you can do is blame the West? It's amazing.

Is Ukraine's new government perfect? Far, far from it. Is the West sinless here? Not at all, although it WAS a popular revolution that overthrew the old regime and not some managed CIA-coup.

But even in the least charitable view of what the United States and Europe did, it is RUSSIA that is waging the aggressive war and violating the bedrock international law that territory cannot be gained this way. The idea that Putin's actions are somehow our fault just shows how far the termites of self-loathing have gnawed into or culture.

Ok, so what happened to Maple?? Is he still with us or not?

obviously he is... there's no giant X next to his name

but your concern for an individual whos contribution to this board is trolling people with anti-semitic, homophobic, and xenophobic posts is touching.

Surely you don't get a red X if you are silenced....

http://imgur.com/gallery/k5eOksb

This explains why Maple gets so upset on the forum .....

Octavious: Let's give Poroshenko some credit for signing the truce. He wasn't in power when the war started, after all.

Invictus: Russia swiped the Crimea without a war and Eastern Ukraine revolted without Russia.

SantaClausowitz, you owe me an apology. I command you to apologize to me.

Stop derailing this thread with your crap.

"We shouldn't even be having an argument about this."

*argues about it for three posts*

"Invictus: Russia swiped the Crimea without a war and Eastern Ukraine revolted without Russia."

How is invading your neighbor not a war? As for Eastern Ukraine, it's only gone on as long as it has because of extensive Russian aid, including a special forces presence from the very beginning.

Russian forces were in Ukraine at Ukrainian invitation. The legitimate Ukrainian government and Russia had excellent relations. Indeed, Russia was the only thing keeping Ukraine afloat.

Still, I don't see Russia as blameless. They helped create the situation in which so many western Ukrainians felt disillusioned, and after the rebels seized power in Kiev have actively been working to split up the country.

Both Russia and the west have been as bad as each other in this, and Ukraine has suffered for it. My greatest sympathies lie with the eastern Ukrainians who have largely on the sharp end of everyone else's bad decisions. If I lived there I'd join the freedom fighters too.

Remarkable. Do you just have Russia Today on 24 hours?

Invictus: "How is invading your neighbor not a war?" Ha ha ha. Do you know what war is, Invictus? War is death: massive loss of life. The Russian Federation clearly committed acts of aggression against Ukraine in the Crimea, but there was equally clearly never a war.

"As for Eastern Ukraine," why don't you look at the videos from the start of the conflict and compare it to those of the Crimea? The hooded, heavily-armed men without identification you saw in the Crimea sweeping in everywhere look nothing like the protesters and insurgents in Eastern Ukraine. In Eastern Ukraine, you see unorganized angry civilians and retired military personnel taking up whatever arms they can lay their hands on. Were Russian special forces present in Eastern Ukraine from the beginning? Perhaps they were, but I know of no evidence. Most recently they're claiming that the Russian military only got involved in August. What is obvious as hell, on the other hand, is that the initial revolt was indigenous. It seems reasonable to assume that the Russian Federation has provided matériel to the rebels and permitted the entry of volunteers into Eastern Ukraine. It is not unlikely that members of the Russian military are now operating or were recently operating in Eastern Ukraine. But regardless of how involved the Russian Federation has become, the responsibility for the war (and for the massive loss of life) lies squarely with government institutions and paramilitaries operating from Kiev. Honestly, what did you expect of Moscow? Would you have liked the Russian military to invade Eastern Ukraine to pacify the rebels?

"Russian forces were in Ukraine at Ukrainian invitation. The legitimate Ukrainian government and Russia had excellent relations. Indeed, Russia was the only thing keeping Ukraine afloat."

And the former Soviet Union was invited in to Afghanistan. :)

Sure there were some that wanted the Russians in the Ukraine. There are probably some that want them in the US, but you don't see them here, yet. Having a minority part of a population wanting to be part of a neighboring country is how some European wars started.