http://curtiscook.tumblr.com/post/55451322888 really should be read, by all, especially those in camp zimmerman

@Socrate thanks for making the point hypocrite. "Laws should coincide with morality" ...except for adultery? Really? Any other exclusions? Considering adultery is considered one of the top 10 no nos. I guess you believe laws should have moral foundation unless the morality gets in the way of freedom of choice.

I do have a moral belief system personally. I just don't expect my government to carry out my beliefs through its laws or enforcement thereof.

@The Czech - let's not try and use rhetoric to make ourselves look smart - can we have a frank conversation? Surely you think that laws should have a moral foundation? And adultery isn't in the top 10 'no nos' if you really think about it, i'm sure i can find 10 things even most christians/jews will agree is worse. I really think you avoided the jist of my point that I made to Krellin (and to yourself).

Law and morality should not be one and the same, but they should be tied in, and the most immoral of things should be illegal.

Read Starship Troopers. Heinlein was, I believe, prescient: he saw the collapse of rules thanks to a weakened race that no longer expanded, the adoption of softness, and the franchising of everyone.

His solution? If you want to vote, you have to go through at least 2 years in the military. Punishment? All public. All blood-drawing. Lashes. You and your family. It's humiliation and looking out for one's loved ones that keeps you in line, not the 'good in humanity'.

Because, there is no good in us. We're blood and bone and those products of our DNA, and that the product of many years of iteration and improvement. Religion put up a few harder boundaries around a few of those laws, but defiled many of the more 'natural laws' that humans had abided by for years.

We do what we want. We reap the 'benefits'. Cheating is the new morality.

Lol I don't think Starship Troopers advocated the society it described, I read it more as a warning against it

I'm reading it again and I'm pretty sure Heinlein was advertising what he thought would work. It's a clever system. I'm not a supporter of how things are in my land (Japan) or my former land (Canada) except in the hope that humanity is pushed to revolution and change.

lol there are so many fucking looney toons on this website

we have like a dozen out and out racists, a few dozen more indignant "i'm not racist" racists, and then even a few quasi-fascists like shigzeo.

not to mention the actual fascists like fasces and SSREICHSFUHRER

there were always a lot of weirdos on webdip but jesus h christ

ah, here they come with the 'racists' BS. Thucy, you understand Zimmerman is a minority, right? Just making sure you did not belive NBC, and think he is white.

Thisis NOT about race is what most people here are saying, this is about something else 100%.

You of course, just decide to call everyone a racist. Maybe the real racist is you, huh?

Actually Thucy, you have to look no further than the White House to find the biggest racist in America, screw this website and all these 'dangerous lone wolf' racists, go find the one that is actually stirring the racist BS up.

"This is NOT about race"

-a white person

Loved that thucy ^^

@Socrates What are the MOST immoral then? Murder? That seems to stir you up. Does that include abortion or is that morally different? The Florida Law as written is a just law. Trayvon's death was unfortunate, but was it immoral for Zimmerman to defend himself? Was it immoral for Trayvon to attack Zimmerman just because he was being followed. (Those are the facts, I know we don't have Trayvon's side to dispute the facts) How far IYO could Zimmerman have gone in defending himself without being immoral?

Thucy, I am white. The shooter and the one shot were NOT white, right?

Tell you what Thucy, you give me the name of 10% of the black men/kids shot since Trayvon was killed, by other black men, and I will believe you, otherwise, you are just a race-hustler.

The count is over 12000 now, black on black deaths since trayvon, and not a freaking PEEP from race-hustlers like you. I mean, you care so much about this black mans death, you must havea log of ALL of them, right?

ahem

im the fucking guy on this forum that posts about rebel attacks in eastern congo

you know, as long as we're talking about deaths that no one gives a shit about

as well as black-on-black violence

but anyway, enough worthless questioning of my character, back to how this IS NOT ABOUT RACE

hahaha

no thucy, because for YOU, it is about politics and your agenda. You dont give two shits about Trayvon, who may or may not have been wrong, we will neve rknow.

You are no better than 'the Re Al Sharpton", looking for a way to spin this to your favor.

Disgusting animal.

The Trayvon case was putting Florida SYG law on the front stage, and nothing else to me.

@the czech, Murder is only for people, clumps of undifferentiated cells are not people, neither are animals apparently (though they have a higher complexity/organisation than clumps of undifferentiated cells) So, yeah, i'm guessing rape can go up there with murder as more important, having your body penetrated by a foreign object is worse than having your woman step out, because as it turns out women are not property to be 'yours' - your body on the otherhand is consider inviolate.

I also find it rather humorous that I actually know about all the gun violence in Chicago and elsewhere on black youths... get this...

ONLY BECAUSE of my dearly beloved black activist friends. they have been talking about it for at least two years, that i'm aware of.

But the first I've heard of it from redditor-style "im not racist" white dudes was the day after George Zimmerman was found not guilty

lol.

I find it very interesting that the implied argument is "see, you don't actually care about black on black crime, so you care just as little as the rest of us about black people dying. can we go back to talking about sports and ACORN and libertarianism now?"

lol.

Meanwhile, black on black violence in North Kivu that not even MONUSCO can be bothered to give two shits about.

http://radiookapi.net/actualite/2013/07/15/nord-kivu-environ-7-000-personnes-ont-fui-kikingi-occupe-par-ladfnalu/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ge7i60GuNRg

Blacks are killed by other blacks all the time, but you don't see people up in arms. Why are they this time? Because Zimmerman isn't black himself. They keep saying this is an example of how blacks are treated in America, but it is also an example of how blacks treat others. If Zimmerman were black, this never would have made the news.

Thucy, I dont say you dont care, but please, lets be very clear. This hit the news for one reason, becasue Zimmerman was not black.

@Thucy: unfortunately I'm not a fascist. I'm rather one of those that finds cultural strongholds the millstones holding us back. I'm not for race or language or the low and high or deep/shallow forms of expression in any culture.

I'm one of those united types that look for a world not a people. And as I said I think that a system of graded citizenship is probably a good thing. Of course we are still fighting massively among ourselves. There are no bugs to kill or fend off. Our troubles are the small bickering troubles that prey on a race so full of hate, fear, and the need to be right that progress is almost impossible. This OP is a good expletive of that.

I don't know what the topic is about though.

That last bit: 'not guilty' - to what does it refer?

I don't know what the topic is about so I refrained from posting

On the other hand you joined in with an extreme opinion shigzeo..

@Czech - murder would be more immoral, and whether abortion is immoral comes down to whether it is urder or not. No, it was immoral for Zimmerman, an armed man, to follow a kid because of prejudices, it was immoral for him to kill him. Zimmerman could go as far as was necessary to survive, assuming trayvon just saw him and assualted him, which is NOT what happened - even the courts haven't said Zimmerman just casually walked behind Trayvon and Trayvon decided to try and beat the guy to death.

Neighborhood watches are supposed to follow people that way they can WATCH them. Trayvon wasn't a known resident and was a stranger to Zimmerman. Race didn't enter the picture until later. When Zimmerman first called 911 he didn't know the race of Trayvon. Was he supposed to stop following an unknown person just because he found out the unknown person was black so it wouldn't appear racist? There had been break ins in the neighborhood and Zimmerman was doing what nieghborhood watches do. Had it been a white or hispanic or better yet, white-hispanic like Zimmerman would it have been ok to follow then?

He said he thought he was black? what neighbourhood watches are supposed to stalk a kid (whilst the watch guy is armed with a gun) and freak someone to death? and even if the guy was white-hispanic it still would not have been ok to kill him (obviously!), but can you definitively say Zimmerman would not have killed Trayvon if Trayvon was not black?

Listen to the 911 tape. Zimmerman couldn't tell race when 1st asked.
Trayvon didn't know Zimmerman had a gun.
I have never claimed the killing was justified.
But can you definitively say Zimmerman would have killed Trayvon if Trayvon had gone strait home instead of beating Zimmerman to the point that he (Zimmerman) felt his life was threatened?

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/07/14/why-do-black-and-white-americans-see-the-zimmerman-verdict-so-differently.html

You say he couldn't, I cannot see nor hear proof he did not know. But he did know that some burly mother fucker was stalking him late at night... goood, because it certainly wasn't!

Did Zimmerman feel he had to shoot Trayvon? That's very debateable. But ignoring that, Zimmerman's actions in general were unacceptable, regardless of whether Trayvon went straight to beating on him AND I'm not sure we can say that what Trayvon did was necessarily wrong.

+1 erist, great article

It lacked teh hispanic view point