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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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dirge (768 D(B))
28 Jul 13 UTC
new maps, new rule
I'm guessing there was probably already discussion about this that I didn't see, but I noticed on the two new maps new builds can go anywhere. In traditional rules you can only build on your start centers. I think the traditional rule provides a better balance in the game. Why was this changed on the new maps?
3 replies
Open
loki008 (183 D)
27 Jul 13 UTC
Looking for feedback and Tips on first gunboat game
I just finished my first gunboat game (as Greece) and would welcome feedback on the good, bad and the ugly. Figure this is the best way to learn

http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=123103
3 replies
Open
redhouse1938 (429 D)
26 Jul 13 UTC
New classic game
Classic, Full-press, Winner-takes-all,
Password-protected, 24h phases, 475 point entry fee, anonymous.
7 replies
Open
Al Swearengen (0 DX)
28 Jul 13 UTC
Decline in the playerbase
I've noticed less players available for live games than this time last year. I didn't worry during the September slump, as I attributed that to kids going back to school. But it appears to me that the number continues to slide.
1 reply
Open
Wizard_Of_Yendor (0 DX)
27 Jul 13 UTC
No Crookedness in the Dealing
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=123756

40 point buy-in, 2-day phases, full press, anonymous players, and WTA. Join up here and I'll send you the password.
4 replies
Open
The Czech (39715 D(S))
28 Jul 13 UTC
Mods, please check your email
Thanks for all you do.
7 replies
Open
murraysheroes (526 D(B))
28 Jul 13 UTC
Looking for reliable players.
gameID=123770

Full press, anon, WTA, 3-day phases, 110 point buy-in. Reply in this thread for a password if you're interested. I have a handful of very reliable players listed in my profile, and I'm looking to find some more.
0 replies
Open
jmo1121109 (3812 D)
27 Jul 13 UTC
Processing Reset
I've added 10 hours to all games and reset the processing. If you experience any problems with your games please post here or email [email protected].
8 replies
Open
philcore (317 D(S))
23 Jul 13 UTC
(+1)
George zimmerman pulls family of 4 from a rolled SUV
http://m.usatoday.com/article/news/2575217

Strange, the article makes no mention of the race of the occupants ... ? Surely this was a race motivated rescue, no?
64 replies
Open
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
19 Jul 13 UTC
American Christians--Beware! THERE BE A WAR UPON THEE! (So Sayeth...Others)
A quick Wikipedia check puts the approximate number of Americans identifying as Christian at 70%; a Gallup poll in 2012 said 77%...let's say between 70-80%, with easily 85-90% of those in Congress Christian. States such as Texas STILL *REQUIRE* you to be Christian to run for governor. We support Intelligent Design more than any other Western nation, we argue against Evolution/Gay Rights/Atheism more than most Western nations...HOW is there a "War on Christianity," here, folks?
161 replies
Open
Sbyvl36 (439 D)
27 Jul 13 UTC
Need Replacement
0 replies
Open
smoky (771 D)
27 Jul 13 UTC
is there admin online ?
i want to talk with him becouse i see 2 player abusing!
4 replies
Open
orathaic (1009 D(B))
21 Jul 13 UTC
(+1)
Gays parents better for kids?
m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/3388498
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Stressedlines (1559 D)
23 Jul 13 UTC
(+1)
THUCY and krellin need to get a room,. there is a lot of energy between them that needs to be attended to.

Thucy, the more you blame everything, directly or indirectly, on white christian, hetro males, the more that Demographics becomes volatile and hostile towards everything else. You make more white males think racially than they woudl by themselves.

I am white, but I am a son of immigrants, and there is not a single thing in my life I did not earn, that a non-white could not have followed in the same exact steps and done, so please, give me a break.

I went to high school...check. Got good grade...checks./ Went to the army to pay for college, and actually, as a minority, there are a LOT more scholarships available to them than there is a poor white kid from Appalchia (which btw is further down the poverty scale than any urban poor kid)..

Did 5 years there in the Army, while at the same time finishing off some college courses.

Got out of Military, and finished my degree. Got a job first teaching, which yes, minorities can easily do, especialy since my 3rd year was teaching in Philadelphia, and white teachers are not exactly the majority.

Decided I was not going to be a prison Guard trainee (which is exactly what it was like).

Got a job working as a part-time dock worker for a truck company, of which I was 1 of 4 whites out of about 50 dock guys, so I am sure another minority could have worked there also. Did a great job there, and got hired on there, and worked my way into some other positions in their Logistics department, and eventually to a 3PL company as an analyst.

Along the entire path, I met blacks (we will use them, since you seem to see the world in black/white) who were in the same positions as me, so nothing stopped them from getting jobs, and actualy some of them were AA hires, so they actually may have had jobs that they were undeserving of, but I would say the same about shitty whites getting jobs via Nepotism.



My business is mostly real estate, rental property, etc... Certainly nothing stopping a minority from accomplishing anything there either, right?

Stop making excuses for things standing in their way. Do they huave hurdles? sure, everyone does. Most people are not born with silver spoons in their mouth, and even though You do not say it directly, you certainly imply that every single white christian hertro male has some trust fund waiting for them, and is to blame for every evil in the world.

If you blame all whites from the crime of a few, then that is a two way street thucy. It means I can blame every black when a black man rapes my best friends sister, right? You of cours,e would not blame the black man, but the white man society that made him do it. Put the blame directly where it lies.

The White boogy man story is getting stale, really fast.
krellin (80 DX)
23 Jul 13 UTC
heh heh...no room needed. Thucy only does his private time with little boys and apparently old black women..
Thucydides (864 D(B))
23 Jul 13 UTC
(+2)
Okay, since you're not krellin, let me tone it down a bit:

I'm white myself. I don't hate my race. I don't hate masculinity, heterosexuality, Texas, America, none of it. All of these things are my identity. So first off, let me get that out of the way.

Now, let me address what's going on here. You hear a "white boogey man" story. It is somewhat more complicated than that.

You hear that "if you are white you are oppressing black people."

It's more complex than that.

Here is what is actually going on in the main. If you are white like me, immigrant or not, irrespective of other status (this is the essence of intersectionality) such as class, sexuality, gender, and so on, you get a certain leg up in American society, indeed the world over, by virtue of your race.

This is just a fact. Can you find a time when there are disadvantages to being white? Of course. Right now I'm in Senegal. Often I'm the only white person in a crowd. There are distinct disadvantages to my complexion.

This does not erase white privilege.

You may hate this term. You may think it doesn't exist. But please keep reading.

Because although yes, at times being white is a disadvantageous position, this is just, plain and simple, not the norm. At all. Not even close. Nowhere is this the norm. Even here, where I am a one in ten thousand minority, I have a kind of privilege, thanks to a history of racist colonialism. Even though that era is historically over, declared ended, its legacy persists.

An example: I walk into a store to buy some sweets. The shopkeeper refers to every other one of his customers with the familiar "tu" (it means you in French). This is how Senegalese people refer to each other in a conversational setting. They inhereted the habit from the French who used the familiar "tu" on every. single. African. Why did they do that? Because they're black Africans. They're not civilized, obviously.

Maybe the French today don't believe that. But the legacy is still there. And what do you know - it plays out right there as I ask for some candies - the shopkeepers uses the formal you, "vous," on me. Just because I'm white. He's twice as old as me. I'm 22, in shorts in a t-shirt, and have a thick accent. Nothing about commands respect.

Except my white skin.

You may dismiss this as a trifle. But I say to you - how would you feel if your entire life the message was drilled into your head, explicitly, subliminally, in every way you can cook up - white people are better than you. This is in a *nation of black people*.

What about in America? Where black people are something like 20% of the population? Where that population was enslaved only four-odd generations ago? Where they were institutionalized as second class citizens only ONE generation ago?

What effect does that have today? None? Do you really believe that?

I don't need to cite you the figures about the jailing of black men over white men on the same offenses. You've seen them, you're well-read enough. I don't need to repeat what you've already heard, from, I hope, black people themselves, about their experience of racism in the 21st century.

The microaggressions, the marginalization of their history, the police brutality, the black jokes, the casual way in which black people are mocked, loathed, feared, and ultimately, discriminated against by the whole of American society.

It's a world where a black kid who goes to college is still, in the back of many of our minds, seen as a "credit to his race." But when I go to college, a white boy, it's only right.

Surely you've heard this all before, so let me get to what often gets bandied about by the likes of Draugnar and others. These people don't believe they're racist. For the most part they aren't trying to marginalize other people.

They genuinely don't believe that racism is that serious of a problem. Tellingly, something they usually have in common is being white, but whatever, I'll even leave that to the side.

What they often cite are statistics "well, black people commit crimes more on average, so you bet I locked my door." Or whatever. It's an appeal to the facts on the ground.

Even if they agree there's nothing inherent about being black that makes you act a certain way, they say that this is irrelevant. In real life, black people don't go to college, talk back to authority, commit petty crime, and so on.

They blame this on the black people themselves.

Here's where I am bothered by this: the facts are that an entire group who has really only one inherent thing in common - their race - and the cultural experience that history has attached to being a certain race, "act a certain way."

It's systematic. There's a pattern. Why are black men always sentenced more harshly? Arrested more? Why are there more black single mothers? What's going on?

There's a phrase from the namesake of our friend Tolstoy:

"Tout comprendre, c'est tout pardonner."

To understand all is to forgive all.

I have found, and I hope that you may find, the more I delved into these questions myself, the more I saw how these things played out. The less willing I was to blame the people themselves. The more I realized - if I were born in their circumstances I would be no different.

Are their outliers? "Successful black men," if you will? Of course. Frederick Douglass accomplished what he did in a time when *his brethren were literally considered property*.

But we don't sit around and pontificate that his fellow-slaves should have done what he did. No doubt they would have liked that very much.

No, he was an exception to a rule. A racist rule - black people are not set up to succeed in a world with a racist heritage. And with a racist heritage, the world is still racist. Our institutions are still racist. Our culture itself is still racist.

Look at the tropes in the media "angry black woman", "fat sassy black woman," "welfare queen," and that modern minstrel, the black comedian that makes white people laugh.

This is a culture that is not finished with it's racial struggles.

And this, this is why I think it's wrong to treat someone differently based on "statistics" about their group or race, whether they be true or not. Because they are a person first, a color last.

Am I more likely to be robbed by a black guy than a white woman? Yes. That's the truth. But I will approach black men as warmly as I would hope they would approach me. This is the only morality that I can defend. This is the only way the world can slowly heal from the wounds of the past.

Undoubtedly there are non-white people who have judged me badly because of my race, my whiteness. You call this racism, I call it reverse racism and mock how big a deal many of you make about it.

There's a reason for this - it simply is not relevant compared to the massive injustices that continue to face historically marginalized groups. I do take it seriously and think it unfortunate. It hurts to be judged by race. But 99 times out 100 this harsh judgment comes from a reaction against the same oppressive system that history has handed us that I wish did not exist anymore.

And so no, I don't lock my doors as the black guy walks by, like Obama I think rightly pointed out.

If everyone looked at you and assumed you were up to no good, and you were poor, with no support from your family because they have problems of their own making, and the teachers at your school antagonized you because they think you're disrespectful, and you just wanted some money to impress a girl you liked or some other crushingly familiar human thing, would you not perhaps decide to take after your friend and join him in stealing someone's jewelry?

"Tout comprendre c'est tout pardonner."

I know what you'll say. I would never do that. I have morals. I'd like to think I'd never do that either. But I also find it repulsive to say to someone like that: "*I* would never do that." I'm not them. I didn't grow up the way they did.

If I had been born in Texas in 1840, fuck, I probably would have died on an Arkansas battlefield in the name of slavery ahem I mean, excuse me, states rights. I would have believed it was a just cause. If I had been born in Germany in 1920 I would have probably died in a French town fighting the Allies in the name of the master race. I'd like to think I'd be better, that I would have been an outlier. I would have plotted to assassinate Hitler. I would have informed for the Resistance.

But let's face it. We can't all be above average.

And so, I hope now you can see, that there are some very fucked up things that continue to happen in this world on the basis of race, gender, class, sexuality, and many others. They should end. The most grievous of these continue to stem from the domination of the world by Euro-American men.

These are the injustices that most badly need healing. So many things stem from them. And to the extent that I can do my part by listening, as a white person, to these other groups and trying my best to understand their experience, without inserting my own (irrelevant, since I'm white and not whatever they are) experience, I do so. To the extent that I can not allow latent racism, produced not by a person (i.e. Draugnar) but by a culture we are all a part of, so as to habituate people to the contrary, I will.

And to the extent that I can treat people of other demographics like a person and not an identity, I will, without claiming a counter-productive and even hypocritical "color-blindness."

I do not hate myself, or my group, but what I do hate is that my ancestors left of a legacy of hatred and domination. I am not responsible for what they did, but I am responsible for what occurs between my birth and death. And since their heinous crimes still echo through the present, inaction simply will not do.

I hope this makes sense, and if you read all this (though krellin will not), thank you.
krellin (80 DX)
23 Jul 13 UTC
Blahblahblah. Thucy has black friends...he's not racist. He helps save them from Themselves because he thinks they are inferior.

He just told in his LONG winded diatribe all of his internal.feelings of bigotry that he tries to project on everyone else. Yes....that right....that was all SELF revelation....clearly he dwells a LOT on how superior he thinks he is as White Male person...

At least he almost being honest about what a racist bigot he is...

In knew he had a superior white man complex....but that was truly disgusting

Please keep your bigotry to yourself Thucy. NONE of us thinks the way you do you racist fuck.
Thucydides (864 D(B))
23 Jul 13 UTC
Krellin, you are impossible to take seriously.

Now you know why I do not.
Thucydides (864 D(B))
23 Jul 13 UTC
You couldn't appreciate nuance if it clove your skull in two.
Draugnar (0 DX)
23 Jul 13 UTC
So if 1 in 5 people in a given profession are black, we have equality in the work.force? Seems that generally speaking we have said equality. I work in IT. 15 people in my department. Two blacks, one Chinese, one Indian, one Cuban, and three females (the only truly underrepresented group). White America is 78% of the population. We have minority races in my group making up 33% of it. What's the problem again?
Stressedlines (1559 D)
23 Jul 13 UTC
Ok. Read it all and will not address it all. Ut I will point out a few things

One. Blacks are not the only people who were.slaves and whites were not the only sla e owners. I point to exhibit A ThE OTtoman empire whcih sucked thebalkns and ukraine and russia out of roughly 15 million people as well as countless more blacks.

Can you explain to me why, the only example I will give for nwo, get a free pass and my example get a free pass?

I am using my droid and will discuss it more but lets stRt there
krellin (80 DX)
23 Jul 13 UTC
Thucy you are a racist big of. You just went through a long explanation. Of how YOU, White Liberl Male, are the only person that can make the world right for.all.those pathetic minorities and women. You.can't even see what condescending piece of shit you are. .

I'm not joking AT ALL!
You are a.racist bigot piece of shit.

Next time you are with the black women's group, ask them FLAT out if they think they can survive this.world without you to make KT better for them. Ask them how much they need you...be a real mam and hang your white male superiority complex out there for them to see.

Be prepared to be disappointed at how much you are.not.needed. bigot.
Thucydides (864 D(B))
23 Jul 13 UTC
It's not as though those things did not occur Stressedlines, but they did not occur in America, first of all.

And second of all, black people ever since European contact with Africa and possibly even before have been treated as the lowest of the low.

This is the historical inheritance I am talking about. I only focused on black people as an example though, you can really insert any non-dominant group with appropriate examples - women, Muslims, transgender people, foreign nationals, it goes on.

Krellin, fuck off.
krellin (80 DX)
23 Jul 13 UTC
Thucy - angry at me for so clearly identifying what a racist bigot you are? Actually I got you to self-confess all your hatred as white male siperiorities....that's what really pisses you off.

NormaL people TRULY DO NOT look at the world through your eyes - we DO NOT first categorize every human by color and gender and then try to figure out how we can make their life better. We don't think we are better, and therefore we view them as equals and compete as equals.

Every word you wrote above SHRIEKS that you truly believe you are superior, that you TRULY believe women and minorities are lower and unequal to you.

You are the worst kind of racist bigot.
krellin (80 DX)
23 Jul 13 UTC
By the way...Europeans *purchased * slaves in Africa from their Black slave masters.

This in no way excuses the behavior, but we didn't start it. We also ENDED it before Africa....where you will STILL find black on black slavery.

Tsk tsk....get your dacts straight Thucy.
Thucydides (864 D(B))
23 Jul 13 UTC
As incredible as your entire post is, the most incredible part is that where you imply you're a normal person.

I'll let my words speak for themselves. I'm not impressed by your slander.
krellin (80 DX)
23 Jul 13 UTC
Thucy, you are not supposed to be impressed. YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE ASHAMED because you are now a self-revealed Male White Racist Bigot who openly confeses that he view women and minorities and *nequal* who are unable to succeed in the world without you, the White Male, so lift them up and save them from their own inherent inadequacies.

You....the perfect Male White Liberal - confident that women and minorities are inferior...Noble enough to save them...

And yet...HOW do you save them from their inherent inadequacies? You LISTEN...you FEEL ...and then you project all your fucked up perverted beliefs on to everyone else around you to try to make yourself feel normal, when you, in the, exactly the thing you claim to despise.

It's classic..

You should seriously seek professional help.

And stop being such a racist bigot.
Thucydides (864 D(B))
24 Jul 13 UTC
You are completely out of touch, drunk, or both. It's what, 8, 7 pm in the US? The sun is barely down. Take a few hours to sober up.
krellin (80 DX)
24 Jul 13 UTC
(+1)
Thucy - haven't drank in months. Nice try...actually, it's a rather pathetic attempt to discredit me.

You're problem is really that you are being confronted with the truth of what a racist and sexist your are, and you have found yourself to be a horrible, ugly person.

NORMAL people don't look at everyone around them as you do. NORMAL people go to work and see coworkers. NORMAL people go through life seeking the best people to work with, hiring talent because they want to improve their company's bottom line...not fill in a box on a sex and race chart. NORMAL people buy and sell from the people that offer the best deal, regardless of gender or race. NORMAL people don't look at everyone they talk to and openly pat themselves on the back because they have such a diverse set of people they talk to...we just talk to the people around us, whomever they are.

NORMAL people are so fucked up and arrogant to think that they are better than everyone around them because of their skin color or gender...as you do.

Sad thing is, you truly can't see what a condescneding piece of racist, sexist shit you are.

Tell me, IN CONCRETE EXAMPLES how you use your status as a White Male to help all the little people around you. And "I talk to them and feel sad" doesn't count. What do you ACTUALLY do with your superior white male status to help people?
semck83 (229 D(B))
24 Jul 13 UTC
Wow, Thucy writing a substantive post. You don't see that every year.

"What about in America? Where black people are something like 20% of the population?"

It's about 13%, by the way.
Draugnar (0 DX)
24 Jul 13 UTC
Actually the quick census web site from.the census bureau says 17.8% or something thereabouts. Whites are around 77 or 78% IIRC.
krellin (80 DX)
24 Jul 13 UTC
Thucy - Still waiting for your CONCRETE EXAMPLES of how you use your superior status as a White Male to help all the inferior women and minorities around you.

"Feeling sad" for them doesn't count.
semck83 (229 D(B))
24 Jul 13 UTC
@Draug,

" Actually the quick census web site from.the census bureau says 17.8% or something thereabouts. "

Um, no it doesn't? It says 13.1%. That's where I got my number.

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html
krellin (80 DX)
24 Jul 13 UTC
So in my ~10 person office, how precisely am I going to make Thucy happy? Where the hell will I find 1.31 Blacks to do a job?

This is going to be some tricky scheduling...I guess the black girl is going to have to work some overtime.

Of course, there's only 4 whites in the office too...so those darn Asians and Arabs in the office will have to work half days or something....sucks for their paycheck, but fair is fair, right?
Thucydides (864 D(B))
24 Jul 13 UTC
Krellin I will not be baited into a personal game this time. I do what I can. I do, I hope, all I can.

Do they *need* me? No more than we need EVERYONE to stop putting up with racism, sexism, etc.

So no I am no savior. I only try to do right by injustice.

You know what krellin let it be said here in front of these witnesses that I'm done feuding with you. You're obviously an idiot. I won't mute you, but I also won't entertain your insults. I'll respond to the points you make and treat you like a rational person.

Maybe if I do this you will demonstrate that you have greater potential than what you display on this forum.

Olive branch. Let's talk like grown ups.
krellin (80 DX)
24 Jul 13 UTC
Thucy - In other words, you have no answer. You do *nothing* other than whine and snivel and act superior while you try to insult every one around you and pass YOUR personal racism and bigotry off as everyone else's problem

Here's what I do, Thucy -- when I get a resume to review to hire some talent, I look at their job exerience and education first, second, third and forth. I only get to their name - which *may* give me a clue as to race and gender - when it's time to contact a person, at which time race and gender have *zero* influence over my decision to move forward with a candidate.

When I go to a restaurant, I tip based upon the level of service I recieve, usually 20% percent, regardles of race or gender of my server.

I purchase products where I find them at the est price, regardless of the race or gender of the people selling the product.

I don't need some *fuckwad* like you telling me how racist and sexist my society is, because *by my daily walk* I don't participate in such activities AT ALL. It is not a subject matter that comes up *ever* in my daily life, *except* when I come on WebDip and all the fucktard Liberals with guilty consciences come out and start trying to pass their personal hangups off as social problems.

I've *BEEN* talking to you as a grownup -- I've been rather clearly identifiying your psychological issue of passing off your personal superiority complex as a social problem, when the reality is *YOU* have a personal White Male superiority complex.

This is not an insult -- it is demonstrated FACT that you just haven't grasped yet....which is often the case when I person has a mental disorder -- and your mental disorder is your extreme superiority complex over women and non-whites.

I've told you how I refuse to participate in racism and sexism -- how I refuse to even acknowledge it in my daily walk.

You can't even provide a single example, other than you feel sad for the people you talk to as you try to understand their plight.

Understand their plight? Fuck that...I don't need to understand racism and sexism...all I need to do is NOT PARTICIPATE in it. Then all your touchy feely nuanced emotions and proselytizing won't be necessary.
Thucydides (864 D(B))
24 Jul 13 UTC
Krellin, you don't need to directly, intentionally, discriminate against a person for discrimination to be a problem in the country, even town, you live in.

By willfully ignoring the racism and sexism which is real and goes on today in 2013, you are participating. You are essentially saying that your white privilege is not real. When you have privilege, it is invisible to you. It is only the oppressed who are acutely aware. This is why engaging with oppressed communities is the most important first step for a privileged person like you or me.

In human rights theory there is a paradox - it is only the people who do not have the human right in question who are really concerned with the provision of the right. Those who already have it easily forget it and take it for granted.

The people with the most interest in getting a right, then, are those who do not have it. The people most aware of the privileges in a society are those without them.

Therefore it's no shock to me that you don't perceive yourself to be discriminatory in your everyday. Indeed I don't doubt you. I don't think you are racist in the sense that you are actively out to get minorities.

But this is only the most egregious kind of racism. Because racism is a system that is larger than any one racist act, because it is actually a part of our institutions, it will take much more than simply refraining from outright discrimination to remove the racial blights of the past.

And, since you still insist on attacking my own character, I will provide with a few examples that, it should be noted, I did not create myself - they were suggested to me by my friends in social justice activism:

1) when a PoC (this means person of color - a term used for non-white person) is talking about their racial experience, first and foremost, LISTEN. If they are talking about something "white people" do to them, don't protest that you're not "one of those" white people.

2) Furthermore don't become alienated if you perceive that they are using an antagonistic or extreme tone. Remember that you have privilege and it is very easy for you to say "hey calm down" but for them, it is a much bigger deal. A white person *chooses* to concern his or herself with race questions. A PoC is *forced* to deal with it on a daily basis.

3) If you asked for help, offer it. But do not offer your own solutions out of hand, unsolicited.

4) Most importantly, call out racism when you see it. So if I'm with my friend and he locks his car doors because the black guy in a baggy t-shirt is walking by the car, the right thing to do is *not let that type of thing slide*. Even a good friend. This is the hardest part for a white person. This is where push comes to shove. It is all too easy to just ignore it to keep the peace.

MLK had reservations about the "white moderate" for this exact reason - the white person, with their privilege, even a white person who acknowledges that they have privilege and that it is unjust, has, as part and parcel of that privilege, no great hurry to rid the system of racism. It is, in essence a whim, a conviction, for the white person. Whereas for the PoC it is existential. It is necessary.

So even though the path of least resistance is to say nothing when my uncle makes racist jokes at Christmas, the right thing to do is to say: "hey, look, that's pretty derogatory. I don't appreciate it."

The first and foremost way to be a white ally is to learn how to try to mitigate, or "check" your privilege. For instance, white people seem to think it's funny to tell their PoC friends how racist their relatives (like my uncle) are. To the white person this is a curiosity - look how outdated my uncle is, what have you. To the PoC this is not funny, this is terrifying or enraging.

So basically the first step is to listen and take racial questions much more seriously, because privilege makes it so simple to just forget about it.

To understand how this process occurs, see the concept of an "unmarked" gender, unmarked race, etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markedness#Cultural_markedness

Lastly, another thing you can do for race relations is not to fetishize your relationships with PoCs. Don't think of them as your black friend. Think of them as your friend. But don't pretend they are white, either.

And of course to the extent that these issues can be affected by politics (like with the skewed legal system), political activism is appropriate as well.

And obviously there are any number of monetary or physical ways to be involved as well, but you seemed to be asking about what I try to do in my private life.
krellin (80 DX)
24 Jul 13 UTC
Wow....just wow....

Yup...you're a racist. Everything you just described up there is how you go about your daily life looking at EVERYTHING through the prism of race and gender.

I don't. I don't promote racism because I don't participate in it. I don't promote racism or sexism because I teach my children - my daughters - that they are equal and *different* than boys, and that they can do whatever they have the innate talent and ambition to do.

Frankly this notion that you have friends that ock the doors when a black person walks by or whatever other racism you seem to be constantly around or that you constantly percieve doesn't exist in my world....which, as I'm certain you know...is Metro Detroit - a very diverse community with lots of opportunity for racism.

I work in an office which is incredibly diverse for the few poeple we have there....and we don't need to point out how each other is racist of sexist BECAUSE WE AREN'T. We treat each other as equals - we don't need some Liberal White Male to constantly fault us, because we don't look at the world the way you do.

When I go down to Greektown or the Casinos in Detroit or a restaurant in Detroit, I don't change my path because of who is in front of me -- unless that person (of any color or gender) represents a threat to my person -- an out of control drunk after a ball game, perhaps. I don't need to worry about where I sit in a restaurant or what anyone around me says because this racism YOU see everywhere...it isn't there like you think it is. You *create* it in your life.

I've described to you how we roll in the work place -- we hire talent, not genders and sex.

You talk about not thinking of someone as "your black friend"....Yeah...good advise from 1974....way to keep up with the times. I don't know *any* people in my life that refer to their friends by color or religion. This is apparently *your* fucked up racist friends.....and, I suspect, it is an inherent trait to the LIBERAL way of thinking.

MAybe you just don't get it, but most Conservatives I know aren't obsessed with race and gender. We are obsessed with talent and ambition, regardless of what form it comes in.

You are obsessed with people faults and weaknesses, and then you try to figure out how you, the White Male, can help them overcome their weaknesses. It is you *constant* mantra in everything you say. YOU percieve all these injustices and only YOU can save the world, You, the White Male - can save the world as you walk around in your smug arrogance and point out everyone else's faults and weaknesses.

The people in my life don't do this. We don't obsess on people weaknesses and faults...except if it's a matter where we can assist them...a kid struggling with math, or who needs her golf swing adjusted. Maybe advise on how to manage yoru homework load better or....see the difference? These weaknesses are not race and gender issues...they are behavior issues or skill sets that can be improved...

I don't know how to put it any clearer to you, my little racist and sexist friend -- the BEST way to end racism and sexism is to NOT PARTICIPATE in it.

Next...I would strongly suggest you find a new set of friends, because apparently you hang out with a plethora of fucktards...a whole bunch of guys apparently walking around judging one another and flinching as passers by and....man, what the fuck is the matter with you and your friends? Seriously?
dirge (768 D(B))
24 Jul 13 UTC
"Gay parents better for kids?"

fuck kids. no one should have kids.
krellin (80 DX)
24 Jul 13 UTC
"the white person, with their privilege, even a white person who acknowledges that they have privilege and that it is unjust, has, as part and parcel of that privilege, no great hurry to rid the system of racism. It is, in essence a whim, a conviction, for the white person. Whereas for the PoC it is existential. It is necessary. "

This is simply ridiculous - at least from a Conservative viewpoint. Since primarily my dealing with people outside my family comes in the workplace or in my business dealings (restaurants, stores, etc) I interact with people on a financial level.

In business, I wish my business to prosper as best as possible. I don't need to think about whether I want to abolish racism today because I *apparently* am some priveledged white guy. MY objective is to make my business prosper, to make as much money as we can. So I can't afford to be racist...have no desire to be racist, because my objective is to utilize talent. EVERY Conservative business man I know thinks this way -- "Bring me TALENT!" they say, and they don't care the color or creed if it helps the business grow.

OF course, Liberals don't see business as profit centers...so naturally you don't view human beings as valuable assets...becuase you view businesses as social sand boxes....therefore you view all employees as race and gender FIRST, because you don't care about talent and success by the founding principle of your economic beliefs.

As for purchases or sales that I make not in direct relationship to my work, again, I am seeking to maximize my profits and minimize my costs....so again, I could care less what color businessman I am making a purchase from. I don't need to take race or gender in to account...because I am seeking to maximize my financial situation...so if a purple androgynous alien has the best deal...guess what>? He gets my money.

So once again, this insane idea that you have the ending racism is a whim of the white man...something we can or can not do....does not exist in Conservative economic circles. It is part and parcel of Liberal economics - in which economics are simply a tool for social justice - that suddenly an individual ( a white male) can decide if now is the right time to stop being racist. Since you are not out to maximize profit and potential in all transactions, you don't have the financial imperative to ignore race, and souley focus on talent.

So once again....every time you open your mouth and spew more of your Liberal claptrap, you just reinforce the idea that you and your ilk *truly* are racist and sexist bigots.

ME and my Conservative friends? Were not....for basic reason economics at one end of the question we are not...but then beyond that because most Conservaitve I know also have some religious faith which *also* informs them that ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL...a notion of our religious founding Fathers that Conservatives take seriously...
Ijtzoi (380 D)
24 Jul 13 UTC
(+2)
Studies have been conducted. Stastically, businesses do hire by race.
http://www.nber.org/digest/sep03/w9873.html
http://scholar.harvard.edu/mullainathan/files/emilygreg.pdf
Quote from the first link: "Job applicants with white names needed to send about 10 resumes to get one callback; those with African-American names needed to send around 15 resumes to get one callback. This would suggest either employer prejudice or employer perception that race signals lower productivity.

The 50 percent gap in callback rates is statistically very significant, Bertrand and Mullainathan note in Are Emily and Greg More Employable than Lakisha and Jamal? A Field Experiment on Labor Market Discrimination (NBER Working Paper No. 9873). It indicates that a white name yields as many more callbacks as an additional eight years of experience. Race, the authors add, also affects the reward to having a better resume. Whites with higher quality resumes received 30 percent more callbacks than whites with lower quality resumes. But the positive impact of a better resume for those with Africa-American names was much smaller."
Draugnar (0 DX)
24 Jul 13 UTC
I would love to read these "higher quality resumes". I will admit that if I see poor English or Ebonics on a resume, it gets filed in the "reviewed and rejected" pile. I need my development team to be able to speak *English*, not broken English or Ebonics. As much as I like the Chinese gentleman I inherited on my current project, his English is so bad that, when combined with the client's Nigerian accent, I feel like I am spending 4 hours a week translating between them and God help the project if I need a day off.
gavrilop (357 D)
24 Jul 13 UTC
(+2)
The resumes were generated ahead of time and then names were added randomly.

(In addition to being a racist, Draugnar is not familiar with the basics of experimental design.)

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152 replies
krellin (80 DX)
25 Jul 13 UTC
Obama Bans Students from Speech
Free speech...er....Free *LISTENING* apparently is dead in Obama world
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/354434/college-republicans-denied-admittance-obama-speech-nathan-harden
OK, I *maybe* get not admitting Republicans...er, no I don't, he's EVERYONE'S President, is he not..but excluding those with "Patriotic" garb as security threats. Nice move, Hussein Obama. The Brotherhoods is proud...
75 replies
Open
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
26 Jul 13 UTC
Police Have No Duty to Protect You
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/zero_for_hero_5Aw3bMHF7vSPG7f27c0jOO

"Because “no direct promises of protection were made to Mr. Lozito,” the police had “no special duty” to protect him." ... from a psychotic spree killer using a deadly weapon? ........... Anyone else see the irony here?
20 replies
Open
redhouse1938 (429 D)
19 Jul 13 UTC
Obama's giving a speech on the Zimmerman thing
is he fully conscious? Is this really happening?
202 replies
Open
krellin (80 DX)
26 Jul 13 UTC
(+1)
Obama(care) Destroying Middle Class
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jun/16/obamacare-benefits-mandate-could-further-phase-out/?page=all

read on...
6 replies
Open
TBagJohn (243 D(B))
25 Jul 13 UTC
(+1)
Not Getting to 100 Points
I thought that if I finished a game and I was under 100 D, I'd be "moved" to 100 D.

I've finished a couple of games and still way down on the points - 44. Why is this?
25 replies
Open
futurewolfie (100 D)
26 Jul 13 UTC
Pausing?
We're attempting to Pause a game as one player is gone for the weekend. However, certain players haven't checked in yet and so they haven't voted pause. The player who is leaving has left, but already voted to pause.

My question is, if the game progresses to the next phase, will the "Pause" vote reset, or will all the Pause votes stay in place unless cancelled by the voting player? Can we finish up our orders to progress to the start of the next round and then vote "Pause"?
5 replies
Open
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
26 Jul 13 UTC
Detroit - WTF are you thinking
http://money.cnn.com/2013/07/26/news/economy/detroit-bankruptcy-arena/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Build a $400,000,000+ arena while you are *bankrupt*! That's great economics. Good luck getting bailed out for that one in five years.
4 replies
Open
Lando Calrissian (100 D(S))
26 Jul 13 UTC
BEACHES' JAZZ
Any chance for a mapleleaf sighting tonight?
1 reply
Open
Hot Fuzz (159 D)
26 Jul 13 UTC
A new player needed
Turkey has gone astray

http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=123609&msgCountryID=0&rand=9617#chatboxanchor
0 replies
Open
krellin (80 DX)
26 Jul 13 UTC
(+1)
Feds Demands PASSWORDS From Internet Companies
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57595529-38/feds-tell-web-firms-to-turn-over-user-account-passwords/

Good read - timely and a scary future vision. Cory Doctorow's "Little Brother" Give it a read and let me know what you think. It's the modern day Orwell's "1984" and should be required reading.
1 reply
Open
Invictus (240 D)
21 Jul 13 UTC
(+1)
How that "psychic" really found the boy's body
http://www.centerforinquiry.net/blogs/entry/the_new_best_case_for_psychics_did_intuitive_visions_locate_missing_boy/

Nothing supernatural at all. Obviously.
138 replies
Open
mapleleaf (0 DX)
26 Jul 13 UTC
(+1)
Adolf Hitler was always nice to his dogs.
The race of his dogs was never considered, nor their religious beliefs.
4 replies
Open
trip (696 D(B))
25 Jul 13 UTC
Lusthog Squad-6
Ready to resume tomorrow.
5 replies
Open
Saviour Krolis (121 D(B))
25 Jul 13 UTC
Cheating
Mod, please check e-mail concerning cheating on live game ASAP. Thank you.
6 replies
Open
krellin (80 DX)
25 Jul 13 UTC
When Cats Attack - Dateline France
"feral cats launched an attack on a young woman...dragging her to the ground and mauling her..." OH MY...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/10201769/Warning-to-tourists-in-France-after-attack-by-feral-cats.html
* I guess this is one way to keep those pesky Americans out of France
7 replies
Open
snowden007 (102 D)
25 Jul 13 UTC
What does it mean when there is a dash (-) next to a country name?
What does it mean when there is a dash (-) instead of an double exclaimation point (!!) or check next to a player before the next turn?
6 replies
Open
Nikola Maric Eto (24945 D)
25 Jul 13 UTC
(+1)
Motion for a new phase length
When playing live games on maps America and Modern Europe, there is not enough time to move 20 or more units in 5 minutes. So, can there be a new phase length of 6 or 7 minutes?
9 replies
Open
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