With no pictures or specific mentions, I'll say "patriotic" is a term that can describe a wide variety of things, and isn't at all specific. Some people would say urging the overthrow of the current government is patriotic, for example. Obviously there's a scale with "American flag" on one end and "Second Amendment Solution" on the other, all of which could be described by some as patriotic, so without photographic evidence or specific descriptions, we don't know where on that scale these articles of clothing were.

Hereward,

Sorry -- receiving a negative outcome *from the government* because of the content of your political speech is against free speech. Yes, private individuals can do whatever they want.

"Well...I'd dispute the use of the word "United". Obama has caused more division in this country than we've seen in decades"

Bull. We were just as divided under Bush.

And Obama hasn't done it alone, krellin...

Your GOP Congress has had just a little to do with turning this nation into a cesspool of partisan politics too...

"Obi - regarding you "just give them a refund policy", I guess the next time I'm giving a concert (I'm secretly a rock star, you know), I guess I'll just keep all the fags and jews out, right? And I'll give them a refund and it'll be OK..."

By all means...but see how well that goes for your career--we run Hollywood, we Jews and those fags... ;)

Likewise, Obama's free to to this...but see how well that works for him...now he has a stupid PR story on his hands...

"Seriously, guys? You really, really thought that the freedom of speech was only verbal speech in private, and didn't apply to things like, oh, I don't know, tee shirts with a political message on them, worn peacefully at a public meeting?

I hope that's not true, and that you're just staking out absurd positions in order to defend your President."

semck, I'm coming over to your house with a loud bullhorn and I'm going to shout "DOWN WITH BOEHNER!" for 12 hours.

And you must listen to me, for all 12 of those hours...you MUST...

After all, Freedom of Speech = Right to Be Listened To in your mind, yes?

You MUST listen to me? You can't just tell me to buzz off? You're not taking away my bullhorn, of course, or taking away my means of speech, just telling me I can't do it on your doorstep because it's YOUR doorstep and YOU don't want to hear it? Almost how someone might not want to hear anti-Obama sentiment at an Obama speech?

But no...you are FORCED to listen to me...apparently...

@Obi - apples and oranges. A teeshirt is just print and can be ignored. a bullhorn is sound that pervades every where. An auditorium where someone is giving a speech on a publicly funded campus is public property. My yard is private property. The teeshirt is not disturbing the peace. The bullhorn is. But you go ahead and come out to Fairfield and try it. I'll be certain John is here when you do (my mom was the Butler County Republican Party office manager. I've eaten at his dinner table when I was a teenager.)

Oh, and the teeshirt is eaily ignored by anyone attending. Had they disrupted the speech, *then* and *only* then the secret service should escort them out. But as long as all they have are teeshirts with patriotic or republican slogans, the secret service becomes a bunch of hired thugs in performing this act.

obi, are you this dense, or do you just play dense on webdip?

Notice how I said *non-verbal*? Did your little, Shakespeare-analyzing brain notice that word? Is a bullhorn non-verbal? No? I didn't think so.

Yes, speech can be restricted where its mere existence is causing a nuisance. Want the big distinction? Political speech *can't be censored by a public entity based on content or viewpoint.*

So yes, if you come to my house with a bullhorn, I can have you taken away, but that's because you're there with a bullhorn, not because of *what* you're saying. On the other hand, you say,

"just telling me I can't do it on your doorstep because it's YOUR doorstep and YOU don't want to hear it? Almost how someone might not want to hear anti-Obama sentiment at an Obama speech?"

Notice how in the last sentence, you're now classifying speech based on *content* and *viewpoint*? THAT is not allowed by a public entity. A tee shirt is not a nuisance or a security threat, and it doesn't become one based on the political message (which is core protected speech) that it takes.

Can you stand outside my house with an anti-Boehner sign? Absolutely you can, as long as you don't get on my property or violate harrassment laws. And if I claim that you are violating some law, it better not be based on the political content of your sign.

Oh, and if you ARE on my property? Then yes, absolutely I can engage in viewpoint discrimination, and tell you to leave while allowing the person with the anti-Obama sign to stay. Because I'm not the government and it's not public land.

"But no...you are FORCED to listen to me...apparently... "

If I'm on public land at a public event and you're engaging in protected speech, I sure am.

@ Draug:

I'll amend my example to have a T-shirt...I stand by my principle--

If it's YOUR event (by "your" here I mean either Obama's or the college's, the key point is it's NOT the students' event) and YOU set the rules...

As long as you're not breaking the law, you can let in and keep out whoever, WHOEVER YOU WANT.

And those attention-seekers (and I do still consider them as such and nothing more than that) can just take it. I'm sorry. This isn't Assad cracking down on protesters or people being jailed for shouting down a King and Queen...

This is simply the fact that, hey, sometimes it's good to be the President and be able to either say yourself, or have your Secret Service say "No, I don't think I want to address those kids."

Give me one good reason why he HAS to deign to listen to those kids--not a reason why he SHOULD, mind you, but why he would HAVE to.

"An auditorium where someone is giving a speech on a publicly funded campus is public property."

And if those in charge of the campus decided they didn't want those kids in...well?

Or, if we're to assume it was an Obama official who didn't want them in--

What's wrong with them telling the powers that be at the campus "You know, there are plenty of other campuses that we can stop by instead who would LOVE to have us...so keep those kids out or we walk."

And you will not convince me otherwise, as frankly the opposing points here sound so incredibly naive that if I didn't know I was younger than you, Draug (and in one sense I guess I don't...hey, it is the Internet, I believe you when you say you have a wife and family, but for all I know you're a Belieber of a teen and just good at hiding it :p ) I'd swear that you and those aligned with you here were, indeed, younger and naive.

The general sentiment seems to be one of "That's not fair!"

YES! Yes, it is unfair in one sense that the kiddies got turned away...OH WELL!

Guess what? The world is unfair! And, even more shockingly?

Not everyone's say matters as much as everyone else's! (As some of you have already decided with me, see, I'm a walking case-in-point there...) ;)

You can hate Obama.
You can revile him.
You can foam at the mouth every time he speaks.
You can wish to God (or a higher, existent power) that he gets removed from office.

But you CAN'T stop him being President--and I'm sorry, but call it the elitist in me...

The President--by which I mean the office more than the man--enjoys special power and is, yeah, if he wants to exclude a few kids because he doesn't want to speak to likely opposition, again, as long as he doesn't break the law and has the backing of the campus...he's allowed to personally slam that door in their face himself and laugh if he so chooses.

Sorry--if it's a choice between seating you and Paul McCartney--

Unless that store owner has been living under a rock for 70 years or just really hated The Fab Four, Wings, and "Live and Let Die" for some reason...

Paul McCartney's getting that last seat, even if you got there first, and there's not a damn thing you can do about it--too bad, sometimes a title or excellence gets special treatment, regardless of whether that's "fair" in the abstract sense.

"But this is different," you say, "in this case, it's not an either/or situation, they had plenty of seats, they could have let those kids in."

I'll amend the above, then, to suit that objection--

If you're sitting in that same restaurant (congrats, they found an extra table after all) and you start loudly proclaiming that William Shatner is a terrible hack, and come in with a T-shirt with "No" sign over Shatner's face...

And Shatner says to the host,

"If you...don't...remove-those-punks..I and my...$300 tip...are..beamiing-outta-here!"

Guess who's getting asked to leave and not come back?

And yes, my bad in skimming over that point, semck.

"If it's YOUR event (by "your" here I mean either Obama's or the college's, the key point is it's NOT the students' event) and YOU set the rules...

As long as you're not breaking the law, you can let in and keep out whoever, WHOEVER YOU WANT."

No, obi. That's true if you're a private institution or person. It's NOT true if you're a taxpayer-funded and owned public university.

^But the college board is head of the campus, yes?

Who decides campus policy?

If they can decide to ban items and students, why can't they bar students?

Of if there is a President or Dean or whatever head of the college you wish to appeal to--

My point is that it would seem that person has the call here...

The taxpayers don't get a say over whether cellphones are allowed during testing here at my college...that's something the school board/deans/school president decides...

"^But the college board is head of the campus, yes?

Who decides campus policy?

If they can decide to ban items and students, why can't they bar students? "

Obi, the point is, the decision CANNOT be based on the viewpoint of political speech. The board can decide whether you get a cell phone, but they can't say you only get a cell phone if you're not wearing a conservative-leaning tee shirt. NONE of the board's decisions can be based on the content of political speech by its students, and that certainly includes who gets to come to a talk that the university hosts.