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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
07 Apr 14 UTC
The Things Public School Doesn't Teach
Seriously... I took an entire year of an African history elective in eighth grade that continued through the end of apartheid in South Africa (and went into gruesome detail many times) but I never once heard about the Rwandan Genocide - really?

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/04/140407-rwanda-genocide-today-anniversary
87 replies
Open
krellin (80 DX)
07 Apr 14 UTC
Toyota Promises to Lower Quality
http://gizmodo.com/suck-it-robots-toyota-is-giving-jobs-back-to-humans-1560360775

I prefer my welds precise, Toyota. You just lost my future business.
28 replies
Open
kasimax (243 D)
07 Apr 14 UTC
how do you deal with moves that definitely won't succeed?
as above, below.
6 replies
Open
Jamiet99uk (808 D)
03 Apr 14 UTC
(+1)
Daily Tarvunty Readings Thread
This thread replaces the Daily Tarvunty Reading thread.
14 replies
Open
Octavious (2701 D)
06 Apr 14 UTC
First Ten Games
Just had a nostalgic look back over my first games on this site, and was amazed at how much of a numpty I was! Thought it might be fun for some of us who have been here for far too long to compare our noob stats with some of the new blood :).
12 replies
Open
steephie22 (182 D(S))
06 Apr 14 UTC
How many chapters makes sense for a book of ~60.000 words?
5? 10? 15?

The question is really that simple, although I understand the answer isn't as obvious.
The book is fiction.
19 replies
Open
3diSpade (132 D)
06 Apr 14 UTC
3 minutes remianing
subscribe now to ''FAST & Furious Total Distruction
2 replies
Open
ReturnoftheKing (0 DX)
06 Apr 14 UTC
Hello all!
I just wanted to say hi to everyone here, I've had some background playing Diplomacy before so I'm not a complete noob.. :P I've got 60 D left of my starting 100 so if anybody's up for a cheaper game, I'd be up for that. A little bit about myself: I'm a huge Tolkien geek, I absolutely love sports, and I'm currently in college so I'll be pretty busy for the next 4 weeks.
22 replies
Open
SYnapse (0 DX)
31 Mar 14 UTC
(+2)
New game mode: dummy phase mode
So you get two spring and two autumn phases. The first is carried out as normal, THEN it reverses, and you get the chance to play the phase again. Do you change what you've done? Have your enemies given anything away? Or is it just a trick?
29 replies
Open
2ndWhiteLine (2606 D(B))
15 Jan 14 UTC
(+1)
The Official Thread for The School of War: Winter 2014
gameID=133753

This is the official thread for professor commentary. Professors are the only members permitted to post game commentary, though non-leading questions from spectators are welcome. Please respect the requests of the professors within the thread, to avoid unduly influencing the game. Please contact a Professor or the TD (thehamster) with any questions.
324 replies
Open
President Eden (2750 D)
30 Mar 14 UTC
(+1)
Eden "Time For My Post-Promotion GR Slump" Invitational
Apparently when you get promoted this has an adverse effect on your Diplomacy skills and you start to suck (ask 2ndWhiteLine). I want to test this theory in a gunboat invitational! Sign up here and I'm going to pick the six lucky winners of GR and points (at my expense) with an RNG*.

(*: this is a lie)
58 replies
Open
NigeeBaby (100 D(G))
31 Mar 14 UTC
Iran and Nuclear Armageddon
Anybody currently worried about the Iran Nuclear threat? I thought that was a real threat to peace in the Middle East.
Anyone believe the bullshit they see in the news?
22 replies
Open
rojimy1123 (597 D)
05 Apr 14 UTC
WrestleMania XXX
Well, tomorrow's the biggest day on the pro wrestling calendar. You watching? Who ya got? Does anyone even care besides me?
14 replies
Open
steephie22 (182 D(S))
05 Apr 14 UTC
Tibet
What do you think about the situation?
Could one compare it to the Ukrainian 'crisis' a short while ago?
9 replies
Open
Tolstoy (1962 D)
04 Apr 14 UTC
On a 1-10 scale, how bad is this?
Small-town Texas cops give two bogus citations to man for laws he didn't break after he objects to an illegal search. City Attorney vaguely threatens citee with anal rape:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emmoJvpSGyw
8 replies
Open
R Danger D (101 D)
04 Apr 14 UTC
Modern Diplomacy II: Stalemate Lines
I have a question to submit to the collective. Are there stalemate lines in Modern Diplomacy II? If so, where are they?
4 replies
Open
Hazel-Rah (1262 D)
30 Mar 14 UTC
A challenge and appeal to my former opponents...
Help me celebrate my anniversary!
22 replies
Open
Automatic Diplomacy (0 DX)
04 Apr 14 UTC
Brief question concerning moves
If you move into a territory occupied by an enemy while they try to move into an unoccupied territory, will their move be successful, or will they be stuck? I'm asking because I vaguely remember being able to stop an enemy from moving by moving to where their unit was, but I recently tried it in a gunboat to no avail.
5 replies
Open
Maniac (189 D(B))
04 Apr 14 UTC
Grand National Sweepstake
Pick a horse for the poster above - keep list up to date, one horse one player.
1 reply
Open
kasimax (243 D)
25 Mar 14 UTC
french full press game
we tried setting one of these up a little while ago, yet it didn't work, so here's the second try!
40 replies
Open
steephie22 (182 D(S))
03 Apr 14 UTC
Tightening muscles
I just noticed something weird:
I can tighten my right arm muscles quite well, but I seem to be unable to do anything other than moving with my left arm. It seems I'm unable to give the 'order' to simply tighten my left arm at all in any other way than pressing on something for example. My right arm is definitely stronger, but surely I should be able to tighten my left arm's muscles, even if they're weaker? Is that odd or normal?
Not worried, just curious.
15 replies
Open
A_Tin_Can (2234 D)
03 Apr 14 UTC
Published press
Would you change your play style if all the messages between powers became public at the end if the game?
16 replies
Open
shikari (231 D)
04 Apr 14 UTC
How to report players for possible out of game collusion?
Hey guys, I sense some foul play in one of my anonymous no chat games. Two players are cooperating on an impossibly accurate level with one player simply doing everything in their power to help another without defending for any attacks from the other player as if they are one player or two cooperating out of game. How do I report this to mods to check?
2 replies
Open
Maniac (189 D(B))
02 Apr 14 UTC
Gambling with Maniac
Warning: Most of my bets lose, but if you want to follow the fun read on. Disclaimer, I am not licenced under any jurisdiction to offer gambling (investment) advice, your investment may go down as well as collapse, your home is at risk if you do not keep up the payments, yada, yada, yada...
29 replies
Open
jmo1121109 (3812 D)
25 Jan 14 UTC
(+5)
Gunboat School of War - Official Thread
gameID=134235

This is the official thread for professor commentary. Professors are the only members permitted to discuss this game, though non-leading questions from spectators are welcome. Discussing ongoing gunboat games is in violation of site rules, gunboat SoW games are the sole exception to that rule via the moderator team. Please read the first post inside before posting in this thread.
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2ndWhiteLine (2606 D(B))
01 Feb 14 UTC
Thanks Split. I've always looked at NWG-BAR in 1901 as a dead end move, since St. Pete will always be there to take, and England can't really afford to commit himself that openly against one country as it leaves him vulnerable to a French attack.
I suspect he decided to move there because he had nothing to do with it. And he had nothing to do with it because he has been made another mistake in spring by moving the army to Yorkshire.
Chaqa (3971 D(B))
01 Feb 14 UTC
Split, I'm curious why you think the army to Yorkshire is a mistake? That's one of the most standard openings (and safe, in my opinion).
Partysane (10754 D(B))
01 Feb 14 UTC
Because moving to Yorkshire limits your option from the beginning, forcing you to convoy with North Sea. Had he moved to Edinburgh he could have convoyed with Norwegian Sea and use North Sea for something important like bouncing Denmark or moving to Skag if he felt like risk taking.
Chaqa (3971 D(B))
01 Feb 14 UTC
(+1)
Yes but if Russia opens to St. Petersburg and France opens to English Channel, then you can't take Norway without losing London. Is it a risk worth taking? I know it isn't too often we see both of those moves, but the open to Yorkshire lets you secure Norway and still defend London if needed, if the worst happens on all fronts.
Partysane (10754 D(B))
01 Feb 14 UTC
(+1)
Well of course every move has its risks. Both France moving to EC and Russia opening to STP is pretty rare but of course can happen and you are right about the possibility of not getting a build in that event. Still, a france in EC does not need to mean he will try to sneak london. If he is in EC, he will expect you to desperatly cover london, leaving france with only one build when germany boúnces him in belgium. So chances are about the same, or even better, that he will support an army to belgium, leaving you alone, at least for the first year, giving you your one build anyway.
On the other hand, if you follow your example and use your army to cover london it means you have to beach your norwegian sea fleet in norway (beaching fleets is very, very bad), or beach the north sea fleet and leave North Sea uncovered if you don't want to risk germany breaking your support to norway and still leave you, again, with no build. So that might leave you with a german fleet in north sea, a russian fleet in sweden or even both. Even if you manage to defend london and get your build by beaching a fleet you are in a shitty position because you have no fleet free to convoy your army, which is for the time being stuck on your little island because you need your fleet to support hold your other beached fleet in autumn at the latest, and where else would you want to convoy your army to anyway? If you ended up with a german fleet in north sea your problems only grow bigger.

So you see, moving to Edinburgh, thus opening the possibility for the norwegian sea to convoy and leaving the fleet in north sea free to maybe take denmark or maybe be daring and move up to skagerac has the better and more likly to be useful options then moving to yorkshire.

As stated here somewhere, or was it another thread (?), moving your norwegian sea fleet to barents sea in 01 is out of the question anyway because it is a stupid waste. Not that it matters directly to the question at hand, but i just wanted to reaffirm that fact. :)
rokakoma (19138 D)
01 Feb 14 UTC
(+1)
thx ccga4, btw the url is: webdipquiz.blogspot.com
VirtualBob (209 D)
02 Feb 14 UTC
Bump for spring commentary.
Looking at the „saved“ retreat which stands for two days allready I'm thinking about England could be desperate to hear some professors' commentaries before the next turn.But no luck for him on the matter,it seems...
First thing you should learn in this school as the behaviour is extremely rude and you shouldn't do that,especialy on a retreat and build/disband phases.Especialy when you are the only one to submitt ordrer(s) before the game processes.Unfortunately lot's of players do that,even in HQ games,especialy when they are losing,it's hard to accept a defeat sometimes...

Now,about the turn,I'll talk about the west side only because all the four eastern powers play perfectly,34 out of 35 theirs' moves so far were just great,all but the Piedmont move.Congrats to the students and theirs' TA's!
And the west is a „nightmare“.

1.England - your chances of surviving were about to increase dramaticaly as the game saw some „changes of directions“ in the last turn.But you didn't do well,again.The moves to Ska & Nth were great,you obviously knew your homeland wasn't in dnager.Or you said „who gives a damn about my game anymore!“. It would have been even better if they had been combined with the defense of Norway and Sweden.But you decided to continue with your bad strategy regarding Russia.You keep attacking St.Peterburg like the rule of the game were „who takes St.Pet. wins the game“?!? And you keep ignoring the existence of France & Germany. It seems you don't like school very much...:)

2.France - I understand the Italian manuevar pissed you off but you can't act out of rage. Your fleets' movement was a disaster.There is nothing there where you are heading off,you don't have the power to take a single SC there and even if you could it would be a waste of time and units. You are the western power and you need to take care of the west side of the board first.

3.Germany – I don't know what to say here. Sweden,again?! Belgium hold,Holland hold???
Holding is NEVER an option. You are another western power who doesn't take care of the west.The third one. You also don't like school.:) Two pages about Sweden in this thread and then somebody shout we talk too much about a specific issue?!
jmeyersd (4240 D)
03 Feb 14 UTC
Perhaps England is waiting for some commentary about his options this turn? Even though there are only two options (Norway retreats to Finland or disbands), the choice will definitely affect the dynamics of the western theater in profound ways. Do the gunboat experts see any reasonable arguments in favor of disbanding?
Chaqa (3971 D(B))
03 Feb 14 UTC
Well to me, England's choice doesn't seem so insane. Russia had a few options available to him, and only one of these was bad for England. If Moscow had moved south (to Ukraine), England would have either bounced or taken St. Petersburg.

Now with Germany in Sweden, and an English retreat, it seems to me that potential misplay by England may lead to a stronger position.

Would you agree, Split? Or do you think a a disband and change in direction is best?
Partysane (10754 D(B))
03 Feb 14 UTC
No, he needs to retreat to Finland to be able to retake Norway. If he disbands it he might loose a center if germany decides to support hold russia in norway.
He could try to take Denmark, but that could well fail. He could try to take Sweden, but that might well fail aswell (germany can't support hold both, if you choose that way it comes down to who guesses better). He has no reasonable chance to get into STP anytime soon. The only moderatly safe bet is retaking sweden and start over. Of course he is only safe to take it if he does it with the fleet in north sea, which in turn could let germany get in there. I guess it is up to germany if he wants to fuck with england which he might well do, seeing how france is acting.
Partysane (10754 D(B))
03 Feb 14 UTC
Chaqa, the attempted move to stp was the worst possible move he could try and was doomed to fail. It was easily expected after getting that fleet stuck in barents. If he really had wanted to get stp he would have needed to move the army to fin and support another fleet to norway.
Might still be possible to achieve that, but it was a stupid idea in the first place, and desperatly trying to make it work will not work in his favor at all. Especially because it means he has to retake sweden with a fleet which has it's very own risks.
Chaqa (3971 D(B))
03 Feb 14 UTC
Fair enough. I'm rather inexperienced with England so this is a good learning game for me.
England still has lot's of options and a future in this game due to a wrong play by the rest of the west.But that doesn't mean what he's doing is right.Focusing on St.Peterburg instead of on the European continent is allways a bad strategy for England.This is the war for Europe,not for the North Pole.St.Peterburg is usualy the 18th SC that England gets when he solo a game.
But we mustn't comment on future moves of any powers and that's the main problem in this SoW games.I've been talking about this problem with the mods in the last SoW telling him why it was complicated to comment everyone's orders not being allowed to explain why is something wrong or right as you can't tell him what is going to happen to him in the future if he plays the way he plays...
Partysane (10754 D(B))
03 Feb 14 UTC
Huh? But as every move i make is planned under an overall strategy that figures in (at best) every enemy countermove and my counter to the counter for several moves ahead (again at best), how can i properly comment on something someone like England does.
For example his fleet in Barents, he stuck it there last year, messed up the move this turn, but to explain and to advise him what to do we would most definitly need to speak about his options. Which again would include other future moves of his units aswell as the ones of other players.
jmo1121109 (3812 D)
03 Feb 14 UTC
@Split and the other professors, I'm not an experienced gunboat player, and neither are most of the mods. I am fine with you all deciding among yourselves how much is okay to predict for upcoming moves. If you need to predict more here then in a press SoW to teach the students then I'm fine with that.
"I'm rather inexperienced with England so this is a good learning game for me." -
Wait,you are a TA here,right? Correct me if I'm wrong about it,please.
Are you more experienced with other powers?
Where the desire of teaching others comes from to you as you are rather inexperienced in this game,as you say?
What should your student feel about it as you are getting him into the game on the wrong bases?
Chaqa (3971 D(B))
03 Feb 14 UTC
I just meant that it's not my best country. Like I've never solo'd England (whereas I have Germany, France, Turkey, etc.)
@jmeyersd a disband is a good idea but I believe England can't take chances with not getting Norway back.Maybe use the army for cutting some supports and hoping to be dislodged from Finland and disband it in that case so he can build a new fleet.
VirtualBob (209 D)
04 Feb 14 UTC
I think move prediction help should be for TA's, right?
Barn3tt (41969 D)
04 Feb 14 UTC
For the most part, I agree with Split's commentary in the west. France's moves south against Italy are impulsive and ill-timed. Waiting a season would have been prudent as there would have been greater hopes of Italy having committed further into the Lepanto. As is, France is committing his units towards his one neighbor with enough latitude to meet him unit for unit (thanks to Austria's continued advancements vs. Russia and Turkey).

Germany's lack of movement was a serious error on his part. A defensive bounce vs. England or France would have provided him with a great deal more leverage this season in securing Sweden. As is, he has some hard choices to make as he can not adequately defend all of his weak points simultaneously.

The east: As mentioned before, a classic A-I vs. R-T has emerged. A slight advantage was given to A-I going into this with Russia failing to secure Galicia in 01 due to Italy moving away from Venice in a clear signal of friendship. As I said, now was the time for strong strategic game play in order for the respective alliances to secure an advantage of the other.

Austria and Italy's moves were spot on and have significantly strengthened A-I's position. France may prove to be a distraction. Time will tell though. Russia also made strong moves this season across the board. The game is very much in the balance for him, but he has done what he could. Surely in the south though, he must be rather frustrated.

Turkey on the other hand, outside of the bounce in Eastern Med., had a weak showing this season. With the ability to support A(Con) to Bul with F(Black), it was imperative for the Turk to use A(Bul) to some advantage. It should have either attacked Greece, which would have interrupted two Austrian army shifts and bought the Turk more time this season or possibly slipped into Greece, or it should have moved on Serbia in the hopes of receiving Russian support (which Russia provided this season!). This of course would have been a major setback for Austria and provided Russia with some much needed relief. The double supports to Rumania were totally unnecessary and wasted moves. Friendly intent had already been demonstrated last year by A(Bul). Besides this, should A(Rum) remain stationary, F(Black) was surely going to provide it with adequate support for this season. Unfortunately for Russia and Turkey, Austria was allowed to shift as he pleased and secured both Galicia and the Aegean this season. Now Rumania and Constaninople are under threat, Russia and Turkey are seriously limited in their ability to strike back, and the two powers are left to hope that developments in the western med. and/or north bring them some much needed relief.
Skittles (1014 D)
04 Feb 14 UTC
Warning: Wall of Text. Proceed with caution.

Sorry about missing the build phase. Besides being in the middle of a 60-hour work week, I've had my car totaled and my house flooded...fun times. However, this thread isn't about my woes.

There is a line that we are tiptoeing in regards to talking about the options players have, discussing the moves they have made, and influencing play. Of course, just talking about the game is going to have the potential to influence the moves of the players, but we should try and prevent that influence as much as possible.

Ideally, we would point out potential options in a way that does not suggest one may be better or worse than the other, let the students talk to their TA and then make their decision, and then comment about the decisions they made.

It's not always so easy, though. For instance, we can point out that a player has the option of attacking either Country A or Country B. They attack Country A, where attacking Country B was clearly the correct choice. On one hand, we want to tell them they made a mistake, but that would clearly influence play, because often times their correct decision moving forward would still be to change course and attack Country B. Essentially, I believe the instruction should be something like "You made this key decision, which was a mistake, and here's why. Because of that, you are in this position, and you could do this, this or, this. Now, what's the proper move?"

I've had most of this typed up yesterday (though I rewrote parts of it to reflect other commentary that was emerged), but I wanted to wait until after the retreat to comment, because I didn't want to influence England's retreat option, and the things Germany and Russia need to think about would be different based on England's decision.

Anyway, I'm going to start in the West because that theater is more interesting to talk about, and there were more mistakes made there.

Germany:

Let's start with the builds: why did you build a fleet Kiel? You had to build a fleet this year, but placement is important. What can a fleet in Kiel do that one in Berlin can't? It can move to Heligoland or Holland. Combined with the fact that you already have a fleet in Holland, this definitely sends a message of hostility towards England. I'm not saying the build was bad; in fact, I thought it was quite good.

I thought your moves this spring were poor, however. England built a fleet in Liverpool, signaling friendliness towards France, and had already declared war on Russia (and put a fleet out of position against both France and yourself) in the process, and he was was likely to move on you directly after he took St. Petersburg, if not immediately. Because you let him have Sweden, and because England declared war on him, he likely would have cooperated with you in pushing England out of Scandinavia (and perhaps help you assault his island), and France may have also joined in on the party.

Instead, what did you do? Not much, except antagonize the only guy who you could be reasonably sure would be willing to work with you. In regards to the England/France dynamic, you quite literally did nothing. You moved Munich to Ruhr, which means you now have to chose whether or not to defend it, with France moving to Burgundy, as expected. You issued holds (HOLDS!) to both Holland and Belgium. That's simply unacceptable. Now was the time to make your move, and I think that move should have been against England. You could have moved Kiel to Heligoland and Holland could have moved to the North Sea, which would either bounce the fleet moving in from Edi or cut the North Sea's support on Norway, depending on what he chose to do. If you wanted to attack France, you could have moved to Picardy, bounced Germany in Belgium as you moved up that Berlin army towards Ruhr, or even move Munich to Ruhr and Berlin to Munich. Instead, you issued holds.

Despite your poor Spring moves, you are still in pretty good shape. You are in Standing in Sweden, but you'll have to decide whether to use your fleet in Baltic to defend it. If things go right, you'll get a build this year. I seriously doubt your TA advised you of these moves. If he did, then I would certainly love to hear what he was thinking later. Be sure you are communicating with him as much as possible. After your successful 1901, you really messed up here. You can get past this bad turn, but a few more like it will surely send you on your way to being eliminated.


France:

Your fleets are an interesting move, indeed. Italy surely doesn't like to see those moves, and without press, you cannot explain to him your intentions, even if you legitimately has no intention on attacking him right now. You run the risk of Italy pulling back from the Lepanto and moving towards you.

In some situations, especially in press games where you can talk with Italy, moving Por to Spain SC and Brest to MAO can be an excellent precursor for a fall stab where you move MAO to Irish (with Lvp hopefully being undefended) and Spain back to MAO. This works great in situations where you are getting a build in 1902, like if you took Belgium and Portugal in 01, and take Spain with an army in 02. This allows you to build a fleet in Brest if you want to, while at the same time having a convoy path set up to England's island, if the situation is right to convoy over. In this situation, however, I think if you were intending on attacking England, it would have been better to go at him directly, since be built in Edi and the Channel was likely to be open. This is assuming you have any intentions of attacking England, which may or may not be the case. Only you (and probably your TA) know the intentions of your fleet moves.

This might be a good time to point out that you always need to be evaluating the board and making the best decision. It seems like an obvious statement, but it can be more difficult than it sounds. Sometimes, you choose to go down a path that ends up leading to a dead end. It's important to recognize the “Dead End” signs along that road, and turn back, rather than continuing down that road until you actually hit that dead end. This analogy might not really apply to you here (in fact, it might have been better placed in England's section), but it's always a good thing to keep in mind.


England:

First off, Split is right when he says that not finalizing, especially a retreat, is often bad manners. However, it's perfectly acceptable for this game. It's important that you have ample time for you to talk with your TA, whether it was about the decision whether to retreat to Finland or disband, or whether it was about these fall moves after the retreat. Additionally, it gives us commentators a larger window to post our input, which provided a better opportunity for students to get more feedback before putting in moves (and hey, it also reduces the time commitment, which is really useful for myself currently)

You've made it clear as day that you want to work with France, and it looks like France is responding favorably, but that's not a certainty. There is the option of him walking (sailing?) right into the Irish Sea, and with the way your units are currently positioned, you wouldn't be able to cover Liverpool. Disbanding would be tempting; France would have it in his mind that if he did move into Irish, you just may have that build coming, which would make it less likely for him to make the move. However, you made the right decision with the retreat. It's just too likely that you'll need that unit to reclaim a center, whether that be Norway, Sweden, Denmark, StP, or a bold attempt at two to try and actually get a build here.

Now, it comes down to the actual decision you make. If you want to, you can guarantee that you take back Norway, but you need to decide of that's the best option. Look at all of your available options, your opponents available (and decide which ones are likely), and think about how the board might play out with different combinations of orders put in by you and your opponents, and this will help you decide which option you should choose.


Russia:

Your builds were strong. The Army gives you more flexibility, allowing you to move to Finland if you wanted to. You are probably shocked by the German moves, and I am too. I would have expected him to cooperate with you against England, and for that reason I think your northern moves were strong. However, you are now likely to be disbanding this year because of the German's play.

In the south, you again made some more strong moves. It's really a shame that Turkey did almost nothing with his turn. It would have been terrific if he took Serbia with your support, and it would have been beneficial to you if he had bounced him in Greece, as well. With him doing neither, he's allowed Austria to freely advance his units into ideal position.

Now, you have some decisions to make. One of the more interesting ones is what to do with Moscow? Do you support StP again, in case England tries to take that instead of Norway, or do you move it south to Ukraine to join the fight against Austria?

You are in an uncomfortable situation, and there's a risk that this game won't end pleasantly for you. Sometimes, you are just going to lose, even if you don't make a mistake. The play of your neighbors (whether that be by skilled play or poor play) sometimes leaves you with no chance to succeed. I'm getting ahead of myself a bit, because you aren't in trouble yet, and there's many possibilities around the board that can lead to you having a successful game; there is just potential for trouble. The next year or so will probably be make or break, and unfortunately for you, I feel that your fate right now is left more in the hands of your opponents than in your own, but I guess that's not all that unusual.

Turkey:

I disagree with Split here, and I would love to hear his thoughts about why Turkey's moves were perfect. I agree with Barn3tt on the matter. Turkey blew it this turn, even without taking Russia's support into Serbia into account. Bulgaria was at almost no risk. Austria was unlikely to make a move on it, in my opinion, and even if he did, it would require Russia's very unlikely support.

Instead, you wasted the moves of three units: Bulgaria and Black Sea were both ordered to support Rumania (when neither were needed), and Con supported Bulgaria. It would have been MUCH more effective to move Con to Bul with Black Sea support, and move Bul to either Serbia or Greece. Often, when in a normal AI vs RT where Austria takes his two in 01, he'll move Greece to Aegean, Serbia to Greece, Trieste to Serbia. Your move to Greece or Serbia will force Austria to take longer to get into proper position, which gives you and Russia a larger chance to break through his defense before he has his line completely set up.

Smyrna moving to East Med was his only good move of the season. This is my preferred move with the fleet for a couple reasons. First, I want to keep Italy as far away from completing the Lepanto as possible, in hopes that he decides it isn't worth the effort and decides to either stab Austria or turn to attack France. With Austria's fleet in Greece in 01, Italy usually moves to East Med because the Austrian often moves to the Aegean, and a bounce would be horrible for their cause.

Moving forward, you are in a bit of an uncomfortable situation, but there's light at the end of the tunnel. With the French fleet moves, Italy can't be the most comfortable. Now, there's certainly no guarantee that those fleets are heading at Italy; they can just as easily stab England for what may be a guaranteed build next year, depending how the rest of the board plays out. However, what's going through Italy's mind? Does he try to continue with the Lepanto, or does he pull back and go hard at France?

Italy:

There's not a whole lot to say about your build and Spring moves. They were the proper moves to make, and the situation in the east is relatively standard. What you don't like to see is France's fleet movements to Spain SC and MAO. If he wants to, he can take GoL and West Med unopposed, immediately.

You have a decision to make: do you continue with the Lepanto, hoping that France is using his fleets either to stab England, or is planning on just holding them to deter any attack from you, or do you abandon the attack on Turkey and prepare to fight France? Read the board, talk to your TA, and then decide what course of action is best.


Austria:

There's even less to say about your actions. You made the correct army builds, and then you made solid spring moves. Luckily for you, Turkey played passive and didn't bounce you in Greece or Serbia (which he would have taken), allowing you to complete your formation. Every unit of yours is on the front line, which is exactly where you want them to be right now. You are in a very strong position.

One thing to keep in mind is the French movements. It may end up causing him to abandon the attack on Turkey, and you may end up having to fight them alone. That's not as scary as it sounds, especially with Russia currently facing northern pressure; once you get either Bul or Rumania (and getting one will likely lead to getting the other), you will have the units to fight both of them alone, should you have to.

Another potential positive, if Italy chooses to go for France, is that you may have the opportunity to build a second fleet. Normally, a fleet build by Austria leads to a conflict with Italy, because there's just not a whole lot Austria can do with it. If it's early in the game and Italy is doing the Lepanto, you are going to be in the Aegean and Italy is going to be in East Med, so there's simply no room for it to be used against Turkey. However, if Italy pulls back to attack France (or defend against a French attack), you just may have that opportunity. If you have not breached Turkey, and the Juggernaut is still intact, you will need that second fleet in the East Med to break him, and Italy should know that. He's still probably not going to like the build, but if he's engaged with France, he's probably going to grudgingly accept it and move on, as long as you give clear signs you are simply building it to attack Turkey because Italy's fleet isn't in the East Med to do so. Later, this fleet may be used to either deter/defend an Italian attack, or it can be useful for a later solo attempt if you are fortunate enough to end up in that position.

In the later stages of a game, if you build another fleet after growing big, it's almost certainly going to be a “stab build” where you are telling Italy that it's time for you to attack him and make your push for a solo, and it makes a difference if that fleet ends up being your second or third fleet on the board.
rokakoma (19138 D)
04 Feb 14 UTC
spoiler alert :D

On the contrary I like France's moves. If they were against Italy, as others have said, it's a bad move. But was it against Italy in the first place???

I have seen many similar moves in the past, and they have all resulted France moving to north atlantic + mid atlantic and convoys his army onto clyde/liverpool.

Let's face it, France has a clear path to take an SC from england, and this move was perfect to make England beleive he's safe. Now England can do nothing to stop France. Neither can Germany and probably Germany doesn't want to stop it at all.

The only country who could slow down France is Italy, but by the time he gets there, france will be already in England, and will be capable to defend his homeland. Also, he can take liverpool without convoying an army, making Italy's attempt totally useless.

In conclusion, if France's will is to attack England, and it was deliberate in the first place, I think these move make perfect sense, as there was no faster way anyways to get behind England. This way, he made sure England will not protect his backyard.

So, for me the only question is, is France going to betray England?

For the rest I mostly agree with Split, especially on the issue regarding deliberately slowing down the game by not finalizing.

One thing though, Turkey made a mistake not using bulgaria for an attack, and protecting bulgaria by a supported attack from Constanti. It was especially a mistake in the light of Russia (as he should) supported a move to Serbia. This is quite a standard Russian/Turkish cooperation, I'm surprised the TA wasn't aware of that. that single move, the lack of it actually, may cost way to much for both Russia and Turkey. Unless, Italy, as I said decided to turn towards france ... Then the balance would be restored, and we were looking forwards for an interesting continuation.
First of all – Barn,Skittles & Roka have perfectly described the „Bulgarian spring '02 role“ and I'd like to appologize about the statement „all eastern moves were perfect“ because they were NOT. I completely forgot about Bulgaria because I was focused on the west but the mistake was also huge. Bul – Ser (or Gre) is crucial,not only because of the potential temporary entering the centers (it would be hard to defend it after) but because of keeping Bulgaria and the homeland safe in the current but even in the next year as well.And because it provides additional time to Russia to take control of Galicia by entering Ukraine first.Which Russia wasn't able to do (Ukr) due to the early mentioned wrong play by England.

Barn also made a good point about how Italian moving away from Venice helped Austria to take control of Galicia,which is very important in an AI vs RT. BUT! But Italy could have done the same thing by moving it to Tuscany instead! I allready said the move to Piedmont was great for Italy's allies,mostly for Germany & England but it would give nothing to himself,only a headache! Ironicaly the move screw Austrian game even! What do you think why? Because the move made France to do what he did this turn and now Italy can't continue with the Lepanto and enter East Med which hurts Austria more then Italy.

You all said the move to Piedmont was very nice,what do you think about it now?

So French fleets movement?! – I truly doubt his reasoning was the way Roka explained it.If it was the case it would be better,like Barn said,wait a turn (or two) and just take Mid Atlantic with a fleet and hold with another one.And to wait for Italy to land his army into Syria. If you are planning a stab to England you don't have to antagonize Italy in the process. Although if I were France in this game I'd have ordered Por – Mao,Bre – Eng & Par – Pic. He had nothing to wait for having seen what England and Germany have done in the first year of the game.
josunice (3702 D(S))
04 Feb 14 UTC
First, I think this is a wonderful development that a webdip thread is dominating the board, and Gunboat at that! Its great to get some expert discussions here -- I have migrated to favoring an Italian opening of Tuscany and Apulia and this thread has cemented that approach. As for Germany opening to Holland -- jury's still out, but sounds like Denmark is more strategic... definitely like Russia taking Sweden 9 out of 10 as split ownership of Norway and Sweden is to Germany's advantage. Thank you for the comments on not continuing to Barents... it is enticing, but just seems to never end well. Definitely like army to Edi as this gives much more flexibility to England unless the world is against you.
ssorenn (0 DX)
04 Feb 14 UTC
bump
Chaqa (3971 D(B))
06 Feb 14 UTC
Autumn 1902 bump
rokakoma (19138 D)
06 Feb 14 UTC
Austria, why on Earth did you hold Serbia from Greece? If Aegean attacks Bulgaria and Galicia attacks Rumania, there's no way at all to take away Serbia from you, as you take away every possible support.

Hence you wasted to use the army in Greece for useful purposes, like supporting Aegean. Also serbia could have attacked Rumania, since it was safe, so it could have save Galicia, or it could have supported Aegean of course. Now, by losing Galicia, you don't have this option anymore ...

Terrible set of orders I think, lacking understanding of rules, coherence and purpose.

--
France, Germany, Russia. Clearly all of you knows how it will end who your common enemy is; now!. But what will happen after?? These 3 powers cannot be best friends forever, and when (or if) England is gone, who will be the next??? Each of you should think about what will happen after one of your enemies is gone. Is it really in your best interest on the long run, to help your enemy's enemy? What will these 3 countries do after England is gone, if any them will attack you after, then are you sure England is your enemy?

--
Italy, I hope at least you know what you are doing :) your moves seems lacking a proper plan and determination, where to go at all. All that said, you seem the only one who has no enemies, so I give you the benefit of doubt that I just can't see the master plan here :)
But clearly, you should ask yourself, what useful thing did my units do in this turn? Both tunis and Piedmont were totally useless. Why do you even have those units? Ahh, you may say "but but but I cannot move with Tunis" ... and you were right, but why did you convoy it there in the first place, if you don't use it for Lepanto, or anything else?

Just as Austria didn't use Greece at all, you are also wasting your resources while your future enemies are growing, and building ... You don't have the luxury of wasting time and wandering around for years.

--
Turkey, you blew your chance before, now you are paying the price. I'm sorry to say, but that's the case. You were lucky this turn, with these moves you could have easily lost bulgaria, if Austria was more focused. Having an italian fleet in your backyard will not make that easier at all. Lucky for you, Austria losing Galicia and Italy not doing lepanto (for now) gives you some hope ... But these moves were irresponsible on many levels.

---
England, you had many options, you chose wrong. Shit happens... Although losing North sea is a terrible strategic mistake... If you hadn't lost North sea, then pulling back to norwegian could have been avoided. But you were doomed far earlier, so it doesn't really matter. Your only hope is, I think, that either France/Germany realizes one of them needs you to survive and help against the other. Or you can choose wisely what to disband, and help your enemy's future enemy, making your enemy change his mind and focus on his own future problems.
Chaqa (3971 D(B))
07 Feb 14 UTC
Bump

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203 replies
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
03 Apr 14 UTC
A Salute to Jane Goodall
Today she turns 80 years young, and here's to 80 more - after all, she is an immortal goddess, right?

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2010/10/jane-goodall/quammen-text
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/04/140402-jane-goodall-gombe-chimps-primatology-tanzania-world-science/
0 replies
Open
Thucydides (864 D(B))
02 Apr 14 UTC
(+1)
As above, below
Ah fuck i dont think i can keep up with the new memes
8 replies
Open
zultar (4180 DMod(P))
02 Apr 14 UTC
(+14)
Why do I need memes to get +1s?
I've been lurking for months so PE can only assume that I will promptly show up in the next 30 minutes to post my master post, haul in double-digit +1s and ride off into the sunset a rich man once again.
6 replies
Open
krellin (80 DX)
03 Apr 14 UTC
Zingerman's Deli (Obama's Lunch)
http://zingermansdeli.com/menus/corned-beef-sandwiches/

Obama visits Zingerman's Deli, touts them for paying above minimum wage. Kills his own argument by visiting a restaurant only the 1% can buy a sandwich from. Check out these prices...this is what $15/hr sandwich makers will cost you. (example: $13 for a turkey on rye...wow. Just wow...)
6 replies
Open
Eggzavier (444 D)
01 Apr 14 UTC
New classic games
Two new classic games. WTAnonymous; 30 D each
Classic: gameID=139193
Gunboat classic: gameID=139194
Git sum
1 reply
Open
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