Forum
A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
Page 1078 of 1419
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NigeeBaby (100 D(G))
04 Aug 13 UTC
Yankee Gays waste good vodka ..... how queer is that?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23527338

There's nowt as queer as gays
3 replies
Open
SYnapse (0 DX)
04 Aug 13 UTC
WWII variant testing
Can anyone join?
http://lab.vdiplomacy.com/board.php?gameID=115
0 replies
Open
tendmote (100 D(B))
04 Aug 13 UTC
German EOG for "Fun Palace Party"
Read on for German EOG in "Fun Palace Party" game
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=124139 gameID=124139
2 replies
Open
steephie22 (182 D(S))
03 Aug 13 UTC
Who's calling?
I know it sounds like a joke but I'm asking for a serious reason. Who's calling? That's all.
19 replies
Open
krellin (80 DX)
02 Aug 13 UTC
(+5)
Rangel: "White Crackers"
http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/charlie-rangel-tea-party-is-same-group-of

I am *IMMEDIATELY* calling for all good Liberals here that are concerned about the use of hurtful and derogatory racial language to contact Charlie Rangel office and *demand* his resignation
65 replies
Open
SYnapse (0 DX)
02 Aug 13 UTC
Evolution is not selfish
Something I've been saying for years; nature rewards the co-operative. Not co-operative in that "I want to get laid and the best way to do that is by being co-operative", but proper altruistic natural instincts.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-23529849
79 replies
Open
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
02 Aug 13 UTC
Hey ghug
Like the Red Sox now?
24 replies
Open
jeesh (1217 D)
03 Aug 13 UTC
Hypothetical Scenario
ABC vs. XY
If A support holds B, B support moves C to X, C goes to X
Y hits B, does X get displaced?
9 replies
Open
matdelong (100 D)
03 Aug 13 UTC
This user needs to be banned
UID: 52123 Name: Happy Chimp
17 replies
Open
shigzeo (1080 D)
03 Aug 13 UTC
GoGo-3 Game - obviously no draw
http://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=118966
Most of us have wanted to draw since before Pacific Russia started winning. Argentina put up their vote for draw when they were still larger or about the same as P.R. I'm on holiday soon. Please draw, or i just throw the game.
2 replies
Open
Yellowjacket (835 D(B))
01 Aug 13 UTC
A short story
A true story. a bit long, but I hope you'll find it as entertaining as I do.
20 replies
Open
Sbyvl36 (439 D)
02 Aug 13 UTC
(+1)
The Greatest of All Celebrations
Today is Calvin Coolidge Day.
12 replies
Open
ava2790 (232 D(S))
02 Aug 13 UTC
(+2)
Thucy is in a Senegalese newspaper today
http://www.lesoleil.sn/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=31191%3Arepertoire-numerique-aiddata-un-nouvel-outil-pour-une-meilleure-lisibilite-des-actions-de-developpement-&catid=157%3Aculture&Itemid=109

Most famous active webdipper
6 replies
Open
Lando Calrissian (100 D(S))
01 Aug 13 UTC
game
2 replies
Open
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
02 Aug 13 UTC
Hey, At Least Our WebDip Denizens Don't Do THIS...
http://news.yahoo.com/twitter-threats-highlight-blight-online-trolls-094629380.html

...Really, what the hell???
3 replies
Open
Tru Ninja (1016 D(S))
16 May 13 UTC
(+3)
The Official Thread for The School of War: Summer 2013 Game 1
gameID=118036
This is the official thread for professor commentary. Questions are permitted by others following the game and/or thread.
569 replies
Open
Tusky McMammoth (3321 D)
01 Aug 13 UTC
I'm back, anyone want a game?
I'm thinking 24 hours per phase, anonymous players WTA with a pretty big pot and some good players. Any of those options but the last are negotiable, let me know if you're interested!
4 replies
Open
ccga4 (1831 D(B))
01 Aug 13 UTC
Need a sitter for one game by tomorrow!
I will be camping for 2 weeks, leaving tomorrow, and need a sitter for one game, a world wide gunboat. I am in an extremely good spot, and it would be a shame to waste it. Please help me out
1 reply
Open
krellin (80 DX)
01 Aug 13 UTC
(+1)
Democrat War on Women
I said it first...now here it is in print...(Ahhhh...sweet vindication....)

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/aug/1/so-which-party-is-waging-a-war-on-women/
52 replies
Open
Chaqa (3971 D(B))
01 Aug 13 UTC
Gunboat Invitational Redux
For those who were in the first:
gameID=124017
Same password
0 replies
Open
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
01 Aug 13 UTC
A Letter to Florida
Dear Florida,

I'd like to thank all of you. Here's why: http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/08/01/3535902/amid-grading-controversy-florida.html
5 replies
Open
dirge (768 D(B))
01 Aug 13 UTC
Snowden has a new butt buddy named Putin
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/08/01/nsa-edward-snowden-russia-temporary-asylum/2607737/

This is what Putin planned all along. Putin, 10 pts. Snowden 0 pts.
Putin is definitely the "top" in this relationship.
16 replies
Open
semck83 (229 D(B))
01 Aug 13 UTC
NSA Internet Surveilance
According to these documents, the NSA has access to virtually all http activities of all Americans. Discuss

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/31/nsa-top-secret-program-online-data
9 replies
Open
Tolstoy (1962 D)
26 Jul 13 UTC
(+3)
The Banksters Own the World
http://www.lewrockwell.com/2013/07/chris-martenson/banksters-own-the-world%E2%80%A8/
"Those not in the top 1% are finding themselves as modern-day feudal subjects – bound by debt or lack of property – to a global corporatocracy"
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MichiganMan (5121 D)
31 Jul 13 UTC
I usually type very well, with precision and speed. But, every once in a while I get sloppy. I am so flattered that you notice.
Invictus (240 D)
31 Jul 13 UTC
MichiganMan's a lawyer? Let me guess. Cooley grad?
MichiganMan (5121 D)
31 Jul 13 UTC
(+1)
Do you have to be an asshole all the time? I mean seriously? Do you have any friends? It's pathetic dude. This is all in good fun, and you're just a total jackass.
Tolstoy (1962 D)
31 Jul 13 UTC
"However, they don't, because there is a high psychological price to pay to even consider stepping outside "the norm" in terms of behavior. You see this in many city-dwellers who would never, ever, no matter what, even CONCEIVE of packing into a thirty-year-old car, driving off into the countryside, and getting a job or starting a farm in a tiny country town somewhere (even though it may be far, far more affordable -- I've seen houses in rural villages that rent for $250 a month. HOUSES.)"

semck, I don't know about you, but my parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents all worked hard so that I could have a life better than they had. Suggesting that everything is fine so long as I can go live in a unabomber shack in the woods is to miss the whole point of the OP - that the wealth that our ancestors worked to build is being siphoned off by people who do nothing but take a cut of all the other peoples' money they move around. This siphoning has become pronounced enough that these money-movers are now the richest men on earth, and their share of the earth's wealth is expanding so quickly that the buying power of the average American has been falling for decades now even though overall wealth has been steadily increasing.

Unlike my parents, I'm poorer now than when they were my age. That's true for about 70-80% of the people I know. I've got aunts and uncles who got post-graduate educations, started businesses, and now that they're 60ish and their businesses have failed, they have nothing to show for a lifetime of labors. I've got a cousin with a master's degree (and the student debt to go with it) who is driving a truck around for $12/hour. Meanwhile, Wall Street crooks who made hundreds of billions selling securities under fraudulent pretenses (and creating nothing of value themselves) are sailing off into the sunset in their 300 foot private yachts. I have to wonder about the moral compass of anyone - capitalist or communist - who doesn't see injustice here, insisting that there's no problem so long as our bellies are full of cheap food and most of us make just enough to be able to pay to live under someone else's roof. Don't you want to better your condition? Don't you want to leave a legacy to any children you have or may have in the future? At any rate, I have a feeling your opinions may change very quickly when you finish with grad school and find - as many are today - that there is no job waiting for you on the 'other side'. What do you do then? Once upon a time, people didn't even need to think about that kind of question. Now, everyone must. In an era of continuous technological improvement and increasing productivity, there's no reason this should be a problem.

"We live in a country where, a couple hundred years back, it was pretty typical for people to pack everything they had in a wagon and head off on a journey of months to they knew not where, to do they knew not what, perhaps never to see anybody they knew ever again."

The difference is that in those long-ago times, everyone knew there was either gold sitting on the ground waiting to be picked up and/or good (and free) farmland waiting to be homesteaded at the other end of that journey. Escaping from California is a top priority of mine, but picking up stakes and moving when I have no clear prospects at the end of the journey does not seem like an intelligent decision - even $250/month for a cabin in the woods is unaffordable if one has no income.
Hereward77 (930 D)
31 Jul 13 UTC
I don't know what it's like in the USA but in Britain almost everyone I know of my age is significantly better off than their parents were. Without the enormous banking industry in London the UK would struggle to pay for all sorts of things that make people's lives better.
In my neck of northern California, almost everyone I know of my age is significantly better off than their parents were. As I recall, Tolstoy lives in a different part of the state.

Personally, I like banks. I like not having to keep my money hidden under my mattress. I like that I can go to Mexico or France with a little rectangle of plastic and use it to magically obtain local currency instead of carrying cash (or archaic traveler's cheques, boy did those suck) in a waist belt. I like being able to buy a house because an evil bank will lend me the difference between what I have for a down payment and the total price. I like racking up (and paying off) a monthly bill on my credit card so I get freebie rewards back. I do not begrudge banks the fees and interest they charge for these services. If they run their businesses profitably, that's okay with me too.

Who says that you're entitled to have anything to show for a lifetime of labors? Or that if you get a master's degree (and the student debt to go with it) life is obligated to reward you with more than a $12/hour truck driver job? The fact that relatives might have started businesses, worked their whole lives at it, then had their businesses fail, to me, is not an indictment of the system. Small businesses are notorious for failing, which is why it can be difficult to get small business loans.
Tolstoy (1962 D)
01 Aug 13 UTC
"Who says that you're entitled to have anything to show for a lifetime of labors?"

I'm not saying that anyone is entitled. I am saying, though, that it should be a reasonable expectation in a healthy and prosperous society that people who do all the right things and jump through all the hoops they're expected to jump through in life out to expect to at least not be destitute more often than not.

"I like that I can go to Mexico or France with a little rectangle of plastic and use it to magically obtain local currency instead of carrying cash (or archaic traveler's cheques, boy did those suck) in a waist belt"

Jesus Christ, for a bunch of really smart people, I can't believe how many are COMPLETELY missing the point. This isn't about paper versus plastic. The OP was about who controls wealth, why, how, and whether or not this is a good or bad thing. I guess this is my punishment for mistaking silly condescending insults for serious comment earlier in the thread.

"everyone I know of my age is significantly better off than their parents were."

This actually makes sense... since you live in San Francisco (according to the webdip people map at http://www.mapservices.org/myguestmap/map/webDiplomacy), it's likely everyone you know is quite well off; those that aren't can't afford to live where you do.
Invictus (240 D)
01 Aug 13 UTC
I have lots of friends, MichiganMilitiaMan. You're just upset someone's actually calling you out on your nonsense. So far in this thread you've done nothing but show rank ignorance of law and linguistics.


As for Tolstoy, life's always hard. That's not the fault of banks or the government. It's just what comes with existing. Is higher education something of a racket now? Yes. Have banks done and continue to do some monumentally shitty things? Yes. But life always has been and always will be full of hardships. Every one of use will be screwed over in some way or face some devastating personal tragedy. This is just something we need to accept and not turn to whining about how unfair charging interest on loans and paying property tax allegedly is.
MichiganMan (5121 D)
01 Aug 13 UTC
The Hanged Man,

The "money" you deposit in the bank is no longer yours once you deposit it. Further, the money "loaned" to you to buy a house did not exist prior to you agreeing to repay that amount, plus interest, and with your signature turned the note into a "negotiable instrument." Such is then magic of fractional reserve banking. The entire system is based upon debt, i.e., promises to pay. It all works fine, for the bankers, (because they risk virtually nothing, create the obligation with your IOU, and hold title to the actual asset) as long as everyone doesn't come asking to be paid at one time -- at which point, the lack HQC creates a crash. This is what happened in 2008/9.

Usury, charged by those who risk nothing (or very little), is evil, and leads to the subjugation, not the liberation, of the People.
MichiganMan (5121 D)
01 Aug 13 UTC
Invictus,

Rebut my points with points of your own. My knowledge of the law surpasses anything you could hope to amass, and my understanding of the language is spot on. You've not countered anything I've stated with anything save the all too typical, "na ah..." Pseudo-rebuttal.
MichiganMan (5121 D)
01 Aug 13 UTC
Further, this "Militia" thing that you use as some sort of insult to me is laughable. I know you think it is insulting, but it's just snarky and childish. Is having an adult discussion without name calling that difficult?
MichiganMan (5121 D)
01 Aug 13 UTC
You've not "called me out," you've just said, "na ah...isn't true" but offered no rebuttals. It's play ground debating Invictus. "Bwwaa Bwaa Bwaa, this is preposterous! Inconceivable! You're crazy...I'm not going to offer anything to counter your claim because its so silly...Bwaa Bwaa Bwaa!"
Invictus (240 D)
01 Aug 13 UTC
I don't know about you knowing more than I can hope to amass, seeing as I'll be starting law school in a month and have worked at a firm dealing with real estate matters for the past year.

And your understanding of the language is woefully spot-off. Just because the word has feudal origins doesn't mean such origins exist today. The fee part does not mean you have to go fight when the county board has a muster. The word itself is a holdover from when, in medieval England as our common law was developing, such duties tied to the land existed. That is not the case anymore and never was in America. Fee simple is just a fancy and law-babble way to say you own the land rather than have a lease on it or some other arrangement.


But since to you interest=usury I don't see how a rational conversation is really possible. Hence my blunt and dismissive attitude in past and likely future posts.
Invictus (240 D)
01 Aug 13 UTC
"I'm not going to offer anything to counter your claim because its so silly"

Some things are too silly to waste time on.
Invictus (240 D)
01 Aug 13 UTC
Should be
Just because the word has feudal origins doesn't mean such obligations exist today.
MichiganMan (5121 D)
01 Aug 13 UTC
Yet you're in here posting. The brilliant 1L, or soon to be 1L. As you will learn, the word is what it is, as it still represents the same thing it meant in the past. What's a person, in the law?
MichiganMan (5121 D)
01 Aug 13 UTC
(+1)
It's just that the lords have made you believe it doesn't. Study hard, and remember that attorneys are taught what they need to know to attorn for the lords. But hey, you know better than me, so you say ..at least you enjoy you serfdom!
semck83 (229 D(B))
01 Aug 13 UTC
@MichiganMan,

"You may well own the house that you buy, either in cash or by paying off the mortgage. But, you NEVER own the land upon which that dwelling sits. That land, much like the feudal lands of yore, is owned by the Lord (county), to whom you are merely a tenant. Don't believe me, don't pay your property taxes for a few years and you'll see the Lord's (county's) armed goons show up and remove you from the property by force, if necessary.

"Look up the history/etymology of the term 'Fee Simple,' and you'll get an idea of what kind of system we're REALLY living in, your rose-colored view not withstanding."

I disagree with this analysis, although it depends exactly how you're using the word "own." If you view "ownership" of land as being irrevocable absolute dominion over the land, then you're right, that does not exist for private persons.

But it never has -- not even for the lords you're talking about. In fact, they owed duties to the king in exchange for owning their land, and arguably did not exercise even the level of dominion over their land that a modern landowner does. In turn, their tenants owed money or services to them. (Only the king really owned in the clear). Over time, the services the lords owed evolved into property taxes, and those have existed for a long, long time (including in most of the early American colonies, before and after the revolutionary war).

So sure -- "fee simple" comes from "fief." So? You are objecting because the form of ownership you exert over your land fails to meet standards that have never been met by any privately owned land. If you don't own the land your house is on today, then nobody has ever owned land, and the word "own" is a meaningless appendage to English (at least as applied to land).

It seems that, again, you're engaging in an odd dichotomy, complaining about the present as compared to.... what?

@Tolstoy,

"semck, I don't know about you, but my parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents all worked hard so that I could have a life better than they had."

There are a lot of ways to define "better life," Tolstoy. I'd be most surprised if your life is not a good deal easier than your grandparents' in myriad ways. Your continuing refusal to recognize these improvements as a very real and significant form of wealth is confusing to me. (We must, of course, realize that wealth, freedom, and quality of life are all concepts floating around this thread, and they are all distinct).

You complain that the money is being "siphoned off" by bankers and others. Perhaps it is; but if so, that is due to choices you or your parents have made in using the money. Simply put, it turned out to be impossible to have a life that was both a maximal improvement in comfort over your grandparents', and also to keep the same level of capital. This may not be what they expected, but I'm not sure why they shouldn't have. Life, as Invictus points out, has never been easy, certainly not for entire populations. Large population growth and near-universal massive increases in standard of living is sufficient to explain much of the precipitous increase in cost of living; one doesn't have to resort to cabal (though such things certainly exist and play some role).

"This siphoning has become pronounced enough that these money-movers are now the richest men on earth, and their share of the earth's wealth is expanding so quickly that the buying power of the average American has been falling for decades now even though overall wealth has been steadily increasing."

That's hardly anything new. Spend some time investigating JP Morgan and his time, and then look at the socialist movements of that time in places like West Virginia. You'll find that there was a far more substantial gap in real living standards between workers and super-rich then than there is now.

"Unlike my parents, I'm poorer now than when they were my age."

As you pointed out, the past few generations often portrayed themselves as living and working for the comfort of future generations. Most in this generation have not -- many have lived for their own comfort (perhaps as their parents intended). It is not completely a surprise that they have amassed less wealth than their parents.

"Don't you want to better your condition? Don't you want to leave a legacy to any children you have or may have in the future?"

Sure. But I don't feel the need of bettering it *dramatically.* Obviously I hope to make a deal more money than I make right now as a student, in the future.

"At any rate, I have a feeling your opinions may change very quickly when you finish with grad school and find - as many are today - that there is no job waiting for you on the 'other side'. What do you do then?"

Well, none of us can fully predict our future attitudes, of course, but I don't *think* I'll react in surprise and outrage. I entered this program with the knowledge that the job market was poor, and I might never get a good job in my field. I didn't do it for a job. I did it because I love the subject and found that I was less happy not studying it than otherwise, so I decided to do so for a few more years at least. (Personally, I think this is the best reason to go to grad school, though I'm certainly not in the business of criticizing others' views and motives).

After that, who knows? I'll try to get a job in this field; failing that, maybe I'll practice law, or branch into related areas of industry. I have never completely ruled out driving a cab or a truck, which are jobs I think I would in many respects love.

As I said earlier in the thread, there are a lot of lifestyles and choices that are appealing in various ways. But certainly I have never felt that anybody owed me a job in my field just because I happened to be getting a Ph.D. in it.

I had the privilege of knowing my grandfather. Like many of his generation, he had dreams of education that he had to give up when a sibling died, in order to help keep the fledgling family business afloat. (Not that he ever talked about this). Thereafter and until the day he died, he worked almost uninterrupted 12 and 14 hour days to provide for his family.

I think he would be delighted that, because of his hard work (and that of my parents), the family didn't need me to do the same thing, and that I was able to study and think about the things that I wanted to, that interested me (which is an incredible freedom). But whether delighted or not, I'm pretty confident that the only path I could take that would have made him feel *ashamed* would be coming on hard times and then blaming them on others, or failing to work as hard as I had to in order to improve things.
Invictus (240 D)
01 Aug 13 UTC
So, what are you saying? Feudalism still exists?

I'm not answering the person thing since there's no way you could know I didn't just Google the answer. I do know that a corporation is a person and that's why you can sue them or they you, why the owner of a corporation isn't liable for the company's debts, etc.

I'm not a brilliant 1L. You're a kook.
Invictus (240 D)
01 Aug 13 UTC
There's the post I was waiting for.
MichiganMan (5121 D)
01 Aug 13 UTC
A look? Thanks! I am pleased that you don't lump me in with your "in crowd" "mainstreamers"
MichiganMan (5121 D)
01 Aug 13 UTC
Kook? Sorry on my phone, autocorrect
MichiganMan (5121 D)
01 Aug 13 UTC
Allodial title, the one they don't teach you about in 1L RP class. King on the land, a true Freeman!
semck83 (229 D(B))
01 Aug 13 UTC
They don't teach you about it because it almost never exists, and almost never has in the Anglo-American tradition, certainly not for private people (including lords).

It does exist now in Nevada, since 1998, and in Texas. I guess it's pretty weird that it would be introduced to the common man for the first time in these hyper-feudal times we live in, isn't it?
semck83 (229 D(B))
01 Aug 13 UTC
(Of course, it's still subject to eminent domain and other such laws).
Invictus (240 D)
01 Aug 13 UTC
Maybe they don't teach it (and I doubt that's true) because a quick run around the internet shows that it doesn't really exist in America, except as a way to get out of property taxes in Nevada and Texas or as a flowery way to say "non-feudal" in state constitutions.
MichiganMan (5121 D)
01 Aug 13 UTC
It existed, it is what our Republic was founded upon. They don't teach you about it because they're not training lawyers, they're training attorneys -- look up the etymology of that one counsellor!
Invictus (240 D)
01 Aug 13 UTC
Great minds.
Invictus (240 D)
01 Aug 13 UTC
(+1)
Yeah! The truth lies in folk etymologies!
semck83 (229 D(B))
01 Aug 13 UTC
MichiganMan,

You're probably referring to the treaty of Paris. But if you mean title whereby one did not have to pay property taxes, then it most assuredly is NOT what our Republic was founded upon, as those have existed in the states since the beginning.

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160 replies
Maniac (189 D(B))
01 Aug 13 UTC
Pretty Pattern
I dabble in the stock market (just a £1 or two on the spread betting sites, I can handle it, I'm not addicted, lay off me Jezzz some people) anyway I was setting my stop/limits and decided to do this based on the Golden Ratio - see more inside....(I hope the suspense won't kill anyone)
10 replies
Open
Frank (100 D)
31 Jul 13 UTC
book recommendations
i am looking for some good non-fiction books to read. things i am interested in - America, sports, politics, modern history, finance. things i am not interested in - any pop science or social science, military history, ancient history. Thanks guys!
13 replies
Open
murraysheroes (526 D(B))
30 Jul 13 UTC
One spot left in good PW-ed game
gameID=123838

Anon, PPSC, full-press, 3 day phases, 110 point buy-in. Be ready, some of this sites heavy-hitters are on board...
8 replies
Open
jmo1121109 (3812 D)
31 Jul 13 UTC
Sitter needed
A well known player needs a sitter for 20 games including most of the New Variant Gunboat Series. They had a family member pass, please consider helping out with even 1 game if you can. Post inside if interested.
4 replies
Open
Jkeil (0 DX)
01 Aug 13 UTC
Editing Games
Is there any way to edit a game once it is in pre-game?
1 reply
Open
Gen. Lee (7588 D(B))
31 Jul 13 UTC
(+1)
Al Swearengen, can you give us an EOG? Epic game.
10 replies
Open
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