Bumping for the sake of bumping. Also: argh the temptation to post other things! Argh!

(I was under the impression that we could bump. Apologies for the double post.)

Players can bump, or post to get the star. Just try and stay away from anything game related.

Bump, and sorry, but I couldn't resist...

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Bump

Can I join as a student

wrong, thread, here you go, they're searching a student if i'm right...

http://webdiplomacy.net/forum.php?viewthread=810567#810567

Bump, builds about to process and I cant wait to hear the commentary.

I'm going to let jmo take the lead with this phase and then I will add on if I have an additional thoughts.

Well those were not quite what I expected to see, but still interesting.

Russia, I don't really like the fleet in Sevastopol. It limits you to targeting Turkey who's build in Con instead of Ankara shows he was still open to negotiations. You're also going to be in a tough spot should those German armies head east. I still am wondering what Germany got out of letting you into Germany unopposed. Make sure you are well acquainted with Italy and/or Austria because Turkey will not be pleased with those builds.

Austria, while you don't have any builds these builds are promising for you. Turkey and Russia are going to be fighting and Italy will have to choose a side. This should give you some leeway. You're moves this upcoming year are going to determine who comes out on top in the east.

Turkey, I really like the fleet in Constantinople. It gave you a lot of freedom and covered all your basis. You can cover the black sea or move to the med with ease. You have great position right now in Serbia and the Black Sea but if you don't manage to recruit Austria or Italy as an ally you are going to be facing a very tough year.

Italy, while not surprising at all I think your builds were very solid and should allow you to hold Trieste while considering your options. Austria, Turkey, and Russia should all be begging for your assistance so make sure to consider what you want to do carefully.

The west builds were a little bit more difficult to figure out. So don't take this next section as fact.

France, your builds hedge towards anti-English and the lack of an army in Paris is very German friendly. Without looking at Germany's builds I would say that you were preparing for an English attack with an ally. However, neither Russia or Germany made builds to back this up. This makes me think that Italy should keep an eye out for a French fleet moving to Spain and the MAO this turn.

Germany, I'm a little stumped. I was expecting some sort of alliance with Russia as payment for Sweden, and yet it doesn't seem to be forthcoming. While France's builds seem friendly to you England's do not. Your impact on the sea's is going to be very limited with only 1 fleet and I expect to see those armies head towards France or into the Bohemia region. I'm not a huge fan of the 2 army builds but it could still work out for you.

England, you should be cheering at the lack of a northern fleet in StP. France's builds don't appear friendly, but they could easily be a disguise for an English French alliance. Without seeing the negotiations I can't say for sure yet, but I suspect the lack of a Liverpool build and another army does not bode well for German/English relations.

That said, I still have not ruled out a western triple, which could also explain Germany and France's conflicting builds.

*"I still am wondering what Germany got out of letting you into Germany unopposed"
should be
I am still wondering what Germany got out of letting you (Russia) into Sweden unopposed.

My quick run-through:

-jmo is right about Russia. You were in a very good position. You had Italy and Turkey both stabbing Austria, which meant that 9 times out of 10 they both would be looking for help from you against the other. Had you wanted to move on Turkey, you likely should have waited one more year for when he got a fleet out into the Mediterranean to face Italy (which Constantinople likely was going to do had you built an army). Like I said in my opening post, you don't want to be the one that causes a bunch of units to smash against each other (which is what is likely going to happen now in the Black Sea) , you want to be the one capitalizing on other people's units smashing together. Further, while jmo is certainly right that Turkey made shrewd builds to hedge his bets, this turn has to be seen as a diplomatic failure, as Russia's builds truly were worst-case scenario. Lastly, these builds show how very important the build phase is. Turkey and Russia literally cannot work together until at least one of Russia's fleets is gone.

- I really don't like Germany's builds. There really are only two options for where those armies will go: Against France, who can easily have 3 units defending Burgundy next turn, or Russia. The problem is that Germany has no control of the Baltic Sea. If he did, he would have a beautiful convoy to Livonia set up, not to mention that Russia would not be able to retreat there (in the event he loses Sweden) and threaten 3 of his centers. With your other fleet west, you really needed another for the Baltic Sea. Not to mention that in order to solo you will need fleets.

That's all I've got this time.

Bump

Alright alright, I can take a hint, haha. I am personally not a huge fan of talking about the game in the global press. However, many people do and there are some people who prefer global press only games.

In the beginning phases of the game I don't use it much at all. The most I will post are greetings to the players, maybe something news worthy and try to get people talking if I find someone to be unresponsive to my personal messages. Later on in the game though, I will use global press for a few different reasons. The main reason is to throw disinformation, or to put a wedge in what seems like a tight alliance. For example, in a world game pretend I am Quebec, and Russia and South Africa are very closely allied. Sending a message on the global chat like:
"Alright, I guess if I want to survive I have to agree to your demands. If I let you take (Russian center here) and (Russian Center here) you will let me take (another Russian center here)?"
Send that to everyone and then follow up with another message saying "Crap! I'm an idiot" and Russia is going to get very concerned very fast. While it may not break up their alliance it will make it harder for them to trust each other.

Some people use the global chat to try and make other players so mad they start making mistakes. While this isn't the greatest or most sportsmen like method it is valid, though it is not allowed in this game since you signed up for a "friendly" learning game, not a mudslinging contest.

You can also use the global messages late in the game when you are being attacked. Threatening to give the most powerful player the solo win if the other countries try to eliminate you can be a very effective way to get yourself in on a draw.

Another obvious use is simply asking for a pause like Turkey is now. As long as someone asks politely and the pause is under 1 week there is really no reason to decline. What you can do is demand everyone agrees on a date to resume the game before you put in your pause vote. Then if that date passes without the game resuming you can email the moderators and they will force the game back into motion very quickly.

What I advise you to do sometime is go to the games option up top and do an advanced search, looking for finished global press games, then in the bottom choose to sort the results by highest points. That should give you some excellent high stakes games to read through. It might take a bit of time but reading through one of those should really give you an idea on how to subtly and effectively manipulate the game through the global chat. I'll read the global chat a little more often now, but feel free to post here asking me to read the global chat and I'll take a look at it and comment on anything I feel appropriate. Keep in mind though that TheJok3r was correct earlier:

"I also like to keep in mind this game is largely instructional and they are doing their best to give us ideas of what we should be doing, while at the same time making sure the decisions ultimately fall on us. "

What I am trying to do with my country by country format is get you all to consider every move on the board. Figure out why EVERYONE made the moves they did, then figure out why they made any moves you don't understand. Look around the board each turn and pretend you are playing every other country, what would you do in their position. Then see if they do it or not. This should give you a pretty good idea of how someone plays, how they are thinking, and even better, what they are planning. This is the main reason you have TA's, ask them about any moves on the board that you do not understand. They should be able to help you figure out how to correctly analyse a game. Hope this answers some of the confusion on the global chat!

it's more that you want us to say something on global and we;ve got nothing to say...

steephie, the only time I told you to write on global chat was when I was telling you to stop writing here. To be clear, I feel like I answered how to use the global chat with my message half an hour ago.
I will not discuss anything more with you here. If you have a question ask your TA, if he cannot answer it then HE can post here, and as a last measure only. If you cannot contact your TA then message Strat and he will get you a new one. Otherwise please keep your comments here restricted to the word "bump". Thank you for being fair to the other players.

Bump

bump

Bump

Game moved on, just so you know...

I was planning on waiting until retreats went through before commenting. Also, it looks like the game is going to get paused?

It likely will be. All we need is Russia. Turkey is going to have too little time to commit properly for a few days.

Alright, now that we have things more out in the open I'm going to critique moves a bit more. I'm going to go ahead and say that my suspicion of a western triple was correct at this point. I'm going to post country by country today and then I'll look over the game a bit more tomorrow and write up a few more thoughts I have about this turn.

England- A very nice set of moves there. With Russia's push south you now have golden positioning against Russia, but more importantly, your units are set up in a very neutral fashion. What I mean by this, is that by convoying out of Belgium and holding in London you free both France and Germany from worrying about you, letting them both move east without worrying about an English stab. I expect to see you continue into Russia, though how you do that will be fun to see. You can either try and play a guessing game with Russia and attempt to convoy in another army. This is the high risk, high reward option, or you can shove north with your fleets. Either way I expect to see you make steady progress in the coming years.

France- Failing to take Piedmont this turn was a mistake. Normally France has some leniency since the typical 1902 Italy only has 4 units. You however are attacking the dominate player on the board right now and surprise was your greatest advantage. I understand caution with the bounce in Burgundy, but there is a time for being cautious, and a time for taking risks. That was the time to take a risk. I'll explain this slightly. A western triple is a risky maneuver, that when it works is the most powerful alliance in the game (my opinion anyways), but it's rarely seen because of the trust required. In this situation though, you had already decided to take the risk and move your fleets south so pushing your armies east is the natural follow up. Despite possessing the trickiest situation in the west you still have a lot of maneuvering room and several options to consider.

Germany- Another set of strong moves. I would have been more comfortable seeing that fleet in Holland remain still, but I expect Kiel is just a stopover for the Baltic Sea so I understand your reasoning there. Italy's move to Tyrolia is unfortunate for you and is going to keep you from taking a Russian center this year. However, you have 2 solid allies and Russia is going to be weakened by the loss of Sweden and Rumania so you have a lot of growth potential coming to you after this next build phase.

Russia- You are going to be facing 2 or 3 disbands at the end of this year. Unfortunately, England's convoy into Norway at the same time as your exiting Moscow is going to leave you very open in the North. You are probably not going to be able to hold StP, so you need to focus on convincing Turkey and Italy that you are essential to halting the triples progress. This is where that fleet in Sevastopol is going to limit your ability to work with Turkey and Austria in holding a line against England and Germany.

Austria- The western triple makes your armies in Vienna and Budapest critical to your neighbors and I expect you will be given some breathing room this coming year as long as you agree to help repel Germany. Do expect to lose Greece within the next year though.

Turkey- Your moves this turn were excellent, but England's perfectly timed move with Russia's concentration of southern units is going to give England the chance to control the majority of Russian centers before you can break through. Therefore, you are going to have to find some way to work with either Austria or Russia to repel England and Germany. This may require some...abnormal moves and a fair amount of faith on Russia's part. The most important thing you can do right now is make sure you understand the consequences your moves are going to have on the stalemate line and on how much progress France will make against Italy.

Italy- By far the best position on the board. Covering the Tyrrhenian Sea with Naples was excellent strategy. The move to Albania was well timed and will give you a lot of control these next few turns. The only part of your move I was not thrilled with was the move to Tyrolia. I personally thought the signs hinting at a western triple were apparent last turn and I would have liked to see you covering Piedmont. That said, it worked out better your way. France did not move to Piedmont and Germany left Munich empty. That gives you enormous negotiation power this turn. I expect you will be taking Greece this turn ensuring you will be able to defend your centers with an extra build. Despite all of this you still need to fear a triple, keep in mind that even though you can hold France off you are going to be in trouble if your neighbors all fall to England and Germany.

bump

bumping 4 the star

So I see things slightly differently from jmo on some points, but that's why diplomacy is such a great, rich game:

England- The result of the turn was near perfect, but personally I think that you have underplayed your hand a little bit. Germany's lack of a fleet build has you in complete control of the north, so unless it was a precondition for Germany supporting you to Sweden, why leave Belgium? Remember that there are two ways to get what you want- to be feared and to be loved. And it's better to have both going for you than just one. Now at least one of Germany and France is likely arguing that since he is on the front, he deserves to get Belgium (and thus the build), and you have forfeited your tactical leverage. You certainly are on the fast track to the end game, but if you want to get a solo shot, you need to make bolder moves.

Germany- By nature of the simple fact that you are Germany, you are the most vulnerable member of a Western Triple. So you need to do something about that. Remember that even if you do eventually get Warsaw, you need to think about where your next 2 or 3 centers might come, and, just as importantly, where your neighbors' next 2 or 3 will come.

France- If pursuing the triple is indeed what you plan to do, you need to realize that you will be facing likely the most powerful country on the board in Italy. To succeed you will need momentum, material, and likely help from Turkey. If I were another power on the board, I would find your self-bounce in Burgundy almost sinister just because I don't get it at all unless you plan to try to get Belgium. Similarly, I don't see why you wouldn't have dove into Piedmont. It makes me think you may be trying to convince England to play a traditional E/F, but then you also would have wanted to be in Burgundy. I guess what I am trying to say is: DO SOMETHING. 1902 is not the time to be self-bouncing aimlessly.

Russia- Obviously not the prettiest turn, but you do have some leverage, so let's focus on that. Turkey doesn't want England to grow too fast, and since you now have your fleet disbanded, you may be able to convince him to stop moving on you and perhaps even leave you Rumania if you play your cards right. Italy is kinda similar. He likely doesn't want to worry about Austria and may be willing to help you into Austrian centers as well. If you keep talking, you should be able to find a way to stay even (well, down 1, but that 2nd fleet was useless anyway).

Austria- You need to make sure your neighbors understand why you are still useful. You should be guilt-tripping Turkey that he now owes you because of your support to Rumania. Powerful alliances (like a Western Triple) across the board have one of two effects on the other sphere. Either all of the powers band together to confront the alliance (what you want) or a few of them clean up the small powers as quickly as possible to get more builds to address the alliance (what you don't want). Make sure it is the first one. Also, one note about your moves last turn: You are in desperation mode, which means you need to start guessing moves. A great (and pretty easy) guess last turn was the Italian convoy to Albania. Had I been your TA, I would have encouraged you to make that move.

Turkey- Like jmo said, you made great moves, but you also are nevertheless losing the race to Russia centers. You need to decide what you want to do about that. You have a lot of control over the shape the game is going to take, and you need to think very carefully about what action is going to give you the best chance to solo (It's 1902... So that is what you should be thinking about!)

Italy- Like jmo, I like your position a lot. Although France may be moving on you, you are in good position to push them back and have builds on the way. I think you have a good chance of convincing France to stay away, and of convincing Turkey and Russia to work with you in Austria. Make sure you keep up your dialog with Germany and France as I think you have the most diplomatic leverage to help break up the triple.

bump

Bump.