http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/monkey-cage/wp/2014/04/07/the-less-americans-know-about-ukraines-location-the-more-they-want-u-s-to-intervene/

"We haven't introduced a new major combat system since the Cold War."

^^^^THIS

That's what a lot of people don't realize. The standard small arms family of the US Military, the M16 Rifle/M4 Carbine dates back to the Vietnam era. The M1 Abrams MBT has been in service for over three decades as has the M2 Bradley IFV. In the Navy, the oldest of the Nimitz-class aircraft carriers (the strategic backbone of our Navy) have been in service for over four decades. The Los Angeles-class and Ohio-class of subs have similar lengths of service. The Air Force's strategic backbone, the B-52H, has been in service for HALF OF A CENTURY. The F-15 and F-16 fighters have both been in service for nearly four decades. I could go on and on.

Just about the only thing about the military that has changed since the 1970s has been the uniforms and the electronics.

" The problem is the government tried to create the industries rather than looking at the best companies in the industries and removing the road blocks. "

Agreed. Governments *suck* at picking winners and losers. Even when they randomly pick a correct industry, what is the incentive for a business to maximize profit, streamline process, etc if they have free cash coming in? WORST business model ever is free Federal money.

@gunfighter, I don't know if that;s still true though - I feel like "modern" conventional war, even in the absence of any wars, has evolved over the last few years. First because of aircraft carriers displacing battleships and helicopters and different armor on land making it about maneuver war, then satellites and drones make it a lot more like intelligence, and now you have cyber war too, and the possibility of anti-missile lasers, and anti-satellite missiles... a lot has potentially changed but of course no one would know for sure until to two big boys started shooting.

Maniac - are you saying that there is no need for a military at all? I mean, it is productive. It provides for the national defense. It produces security. Security leads to lower levels of risk, which equates to a cheaper cost of doing business.

"Just about the only thing about the military that has changed since the 1970s has been the uniforms and the electronics. "

Wut?! You mention a shit ton of older planes and ignore all the newer ones that have been developed in the intervening years as if they don't exist? What about the F22, F/A22, and F35? How about the B1B (mid 80s, definitely since the 70s) and the F117 (also a product of the 80s) and the B2 (first flight was in 1989). And we even have the new (last 5 years) P8 bomber.

Ships? The U.S.S. Gerald Ford (Ford class carrier) was christened last year and comes into service in 2016. We have the Virginia class submarines, a product of the 21st century. The Arleigh Burke-class guided missle destroyers, a product of the 80s. The two classes of the littoral combat ships are both products of the 21st century. And the Cyclone-class patrol boats are products of the 90s.

Draug, remove everything that you said was a product of the 80s, because that counts as Cold War. Most of those were thought up and designed in the 70s, anyways.

So, for the last 25 years, we have developed what? A single aircraft carrier (out of 11), one very expensive and untested plane (F35) and the Virginia class subs, which are a similar situation as the Ford class carriers are in.

You forgot the F22 and B2 and F117 (sorry, but they weren't thought up in the 70s) and the littoral combat ships which operate closer to the shore. And that doesn't include the newest stuff we haven't learned of yet. Often, the state of the art aircraft are kept secret for years after they are in active service.

Okay, you have a point. I'm just uneasy about the age of a lot of our technology. I don't want to caught with our pants down, is all. Frankly, our navy is doing all the fun stuff at the moment (and I think that's where most of our money should be pumped, in terms of r&d). I just want to know we have a counter to the A2AD systems that China is putting in place.

Ah bit A2AD is, by it's very definition, defensive. Unless we plan to attack China, we don't need to beat their A2AD. We just need our own defensive system to counter any offense they throw our way.

Its area-denial, and part of the areas they are trying to deny us are vital for us to be in, in order to protect our allies Taiwan and Japan. We can't protect Taiwan if we can't beat their A2AD.

I know what it stands for. Are access / area denial. They are protecting their borders by keeping us out. They should. Would we let a Chinese military vessel within 100 miles of our coast? Nuff said.

I'd read up a bit more on it. They want to create a multi-layered strike capability zone. The first layer encompasses the water from japan to Taiwan to the northern tip of Luzon. Second layer of A2AD would extend into Micronesia (I forget which is farther west), Guam and the whole South China Sea. The third A2AD zone would extend 1,000 miles - all the way to Wake Island.

So, in the Chinese optimal world, we wouldn't be able to put a carrier within several hundred miles of the coast without it being at risk by either submarine or ASBMs

A map of what I was trying to explain, for reference, can be found here.

http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2012/06/18/the-three-seas/

And in the US optimal world, they wouldn't be able to put one within 250 miles or more of our shores including Hawaii... What's the difference? We are both being imperialistic assholes.

And I'll look at the map at home tonight from my PC.

@ Draugnar

The newer systems you listed don't make up more than a fraction of our military. We have less than 20 B-2 bombers in inventory, for example. We have new and shiny things but not very much of it. The Air Force is still very much dependent on 40/50-year-old technology, as is the Navy and the Army. I don't trust the lone Ford-class carrier and a few squadrons of F-22s to wipe out the Red Chinese by themselves.

If the situation goes tits-up with the Red Chinese or the Russians, do you really want Nimitz-class carriers, F-15 Eagles, M16 rifles, M1 Abrams tanks, Bradley IFVs, and 35-year-old UH-60 Blackhawks holding the line?

Because the reality of the situation is that the old stuff has to hold out until new and shiny weapons can get developed and produced. I daresay that throwing the above systems against the Russians or the Red Chinese would be comparable to throwing P-36 Hawks, M1903 Springfield rifles, and TBD Devastators against the Japanese 70 years ago.

I was going to make a comment about the Polish Cavalry on their 30 year old tech versus the panzar divisions of the Nazis haha.

"Governments SUCK ASS at creating jobs."

This is really hilarious. What about New Deal?

I'm not familiar with this phrase "Red Chinese" can you explain it? A lot of Chinese students here with ipads and stuff who I speak to would be pretty shocked being referred to that way.

I've never heard it referred to that way either. Only gunfighter refers to them as such. I would imagine he doesn't recognize Taiwan as a separate state, but rather a government in exile, so thus "Red" Chinese and then just Chinese.

Red China is the ruling party. China is the land and the general populace. The army belongs to the party and is therefore the Red Chinese.

You're damned right I don't recognize the communist heathens occupying the Chinese mainland.

I use the term "Red China" to differentiate the communist bastards from true China, which everyone refers to as Taiwan for some asinine reason.

It has been sixty years time to accept the status quo.

Besides, I believe that the term "Red China" is a potent reminder that Red China is very much an authoritarian communist dystopia. Red China is like a more benign and less insane version of North Korea and should be quarantined as such, not respected and traded with as a legitimate nation.

If I were elected President of the United States, I would immediately remove all Red Chinese diplomats and nationals from American soil, recall all Americans from Red China, officially recognize the Republic of China, and withdraw from the UN to protest Red China's place in the P5 (among other reasons to leave the UN)

Lest we forget that it was the Red Chinese barbarians that committed numerous war crimes against our fighting men during the Korean War, and lest we forget that the current regime in Red China is the successor to the most homicidal government in HUMAN HISTORY. It's a national disgrace that the United States of America conducts business with such a despicable "nation"

Nixon is undoubtedly burning in Hell for opening *that* Pandora's box.

lmao yeah i winced when he said "red china" too lol bro this aint 1955

There's nothing wrong with red china, but never with a blue tablecloth