Or semck or whoever that was directed towards.

He was talking to me, abge. At least I think he was.

@semck

I can see the lots of kids thing for a couple reasons:

1) Having more than 2 kids is rapidly falling out of style, so I can see why it might be considered different and since anything that is different is bad, well...

2) Number of children correlates very highly to religion and political views (certainly more than it used to) so making fun of their number of children may just be fall out from disagreeing with other aspects of their life.

"I've never said any of that, needless to say, but don't let me get in the way of your fiction."

Right, fiction.

"I mean, humans evolved for millions of years pretty much to have kids and then die."

Species that have exceeded their capacity for sustaining more offspring stop reproducing. At this stage it is destructive to continue to produce offspring on a planet whose human population doubled in the past several decades.

That's ridiculous. The Earth isn't even close to capacity.

@Abge I hope that wasn't to me. I have no problem with other people having children. I think I've even mentioned in other threads that If be more then willing tobe the babysitter for friends and support for them.

Also I got what Invictus was getting at. I just don't feel the same Scott family since I'm guarding we didn't have the same happy family experiences growing up.

No, I think you're fine, CF. I was referring to Putin and other people I've encountered.

I will agree with Putin in that I don't think it's that big of a deal for "breeders". Extinctionists have a much rougher time, socially being accepted.

"hermaneutical midrashing as usual"

I didn't realize I usually midrashed hermaneutically. I guess that's what alleged non-humans do.


"You didn't say love. You said take care of and visit you."

I think you could see from context that they do that because they love you. Others wouldn't.


As has been said, this hostility to having children doesn't make much sense. No one here is saying that people HAVE to have children. It's up to them. I happen to think it's a very good thing for many different reasons. People can disagree when it comes to their own lives. That's fine. But being against the whole idea as a matter of principle? That I just don't get.

@putin,

Earth's population is already headed for a global plateau by the middle of the century or so, and then (if nothing changes) a slow decrease. Why you and your friends are still reading alarmist literature of the late 19th century, I can't fathom.

And yes, your characterization of me was fiction. I've never said anything vaguely resembling social darwinism. I strongly urge anybody who can to spend resources to help those less fortunate. This is in direct conflict with social Darwinian theory. As usual, you're just making crap up.

Also, I must say, your laugh is really sad. I rarely see you say "LOL" except when it's actually in sarcasm and hate. I hope that, in real life, you laugh joyfully from time to time. The opposite would be sad.

@abge,

Those are probably good analyses.

Was at my two daughter JV Golf banquet tonight - just another amazing joy to watch
my daughters grow up and become adults. I then editted my youngest daughters honor's english paper, then we discussed Fahrenheight 451. I can't imagine my life without these awesome kids.

I could care less if someone else wants to have kids and I'm certain they have their own joys - CF certainly does seem this way.

And then their are evil twisted souls like Putin, who speaks of "breeders" with disdain, as if humans procreating and living their childrenis somehow immoral. What the fuck is wrong with this asshole...Imcanonly imagine how terrible his parens must have been to him...and I shudder to think of the mental abuse this self-proclaimed 'educator' must perpetrate upon the chidren in his care. while a vile, miserable human being you must be Putin. I'm actually starting to pity you for real.

Good I hate posting from a phone...sorry about all the typos...

"Why you and your friends are still reading alarmist literature of the late 19th century, I can't fathom"

But you can fathom revolving your life over Bronze Age myths. Got it.

The UN projects global population by the end of the 21st century to be 11 billion. As it stands already, at 7 billion, we are having chronic water shortages, spikes in energy demand causing spikes in food prices, causing serious unrest throughout the world. China and India strive to become advanced industrial economies, while their cities already have unbreathable smog levels from industrial pollution. Not to mention the pressure on non-human species (yes, those exist) and the impact of population growth and industrialization on climate change (yes, that exists too).

Serious scientists, not millenarian Christians who don't give a damn if the planet blows up anyway, have stated that our population needs to come down.

"Also, I must say, your laugh is really sad. I rarely see you say "LOL" except when it's actually in sarcasm and hate."

You're a character assassin who devotes entire threads to heaping abuse on a single individual, and you want us all to believe that you're the voice of civility on here. I laugh all the time out of 'joy', just not around those whose moral compass resides at the nexus of greed and obscurantism.

krellin's right. You're really an object of pity.

You're so fucking dumb you thought Little Englander was an ethnic slur and claimed I engage in ethnic slurs all the time. But my oh my America is doomed because conservatives and liberals are mean to each other. You're whole shtick is a fraud.

"krellin's right. You're really an object of pity."

You're a sadistic voyeur unsurprisingly praising someone who insults "retards" and makes rape jokes for sport. That I don't have your approval is a badge of honor.

"Please tell us, Putin, what is Invictus if not human?"

Wasn't talking to Invictus. In fact I quoted a quote straight from Semck so it should have been obvious who I was replying to.

"Serious scientists, not millenarian Christians who don't give a damn if the planet blows up anyway, have stated that our population needs to come down. "

That's true. And they've been saying it ever since the 18th century. Many of them would have thought we'd all be dead before 7 billion. The consensus of science is hardly that we're facing a malthusian catastrophe at the moment.

"You're a character assassin who devotes entire threads to heaping abuse on a single individual, and you want us all to believe that you're the voice of civility on here."

I'm not a character assassin, but I don't pretend to be that either. I doubt I've ever presented myself as the voice of civility. If anybody that's abge. I do try to be civil, but I also argue a lot, and I don't pretend I'm doing something other than arguing.

"You're so fucking dumb you thought Little Englander was an ethnic slur and claimed I engage in ethnic slurs all the time."

You do. I was just wrong about that being one of them, so I apologized. But I was not wrong when I said you make stuff up all the time, and indeed, you were distinctly silly enough to ask for evidence when I would have continued to let it slide, so I don't know what your problem is there.

" I laugh all the time out of 'joy'"

Good.

How about we agree to disagree about having children but keep the mudslinging personal attacks to a minimum. No reason for them honestly.

As I think about it, Putin, I suppose most of your slurs are personal, not ethnic. I can't presently remember a case of an ethnic slur, so I'm not positive where I got that impression. I withdraw that remark.

Honestly our economy and demographics have changed since the beginning of the 19th century. Kids used to be cheap, they used to be free useful work hands, and they were the ultimate insurance policy for old age, especially if you had alot of them. Now, in our current non agricultural economy, kids are expensive they require alot of work for the parent without much return, and the needs of an individual in retirement are alleviated by retirement plans and government programs. The child as a useful addition to ones life is no longer realistic. Children are more about companionship and legacy, and 1 or 2 of them can provide an optimal amount of that.

"You're so fucking dumb you thought Little Englander was an ethnic slur and claimed I engage in ethnic slurs all the time."

Wut?

semck apologized in the IMMEDIATE first post after he thought that. You're such a stupid fuck Putin. Go to Mexico.

Your mamma's so classless, she's a Marxist utopia.

Many people just don't know how to raise children these days. That's the only issue when it comes to children these days if you ask me.

"That's fine. But being against the
whole idea as a matter of principle? That I just don't get."

Look up vhemnt (Voluntary Human Extinction Movement) actually they don't attack others for their views, but they have reason to be against the whole matter of propogating the species. (mostly in favour of other species and bio-diversity, a love of nature and desire to preserve it)

Of course i suspect they are a tiny minority, but the have a point of view which i can at least understand.

9/10 Billion people will be hard to support, but unlimited growth is unsustainable and some alternative economic/social solution will be useful to avoid conflict.

Wait, can you reduce the whole thing to 'Quality vs Quantity'? That seems like a fair simplification.

orathaic: there's this thing called food. There's this other thing called room. We'll run out of one of them at some point if we keep going like this. Sure, many would die when we start reaching that point and the species might even get eliminated, although more likely decimated, but at that point you have to wonder: what's worse: not being born at all or starving to death?

I don't know, I think I prefer the second one, but I don't remember how it was to be unborn, or whatever was before my life...

Just pointing out that you can take this as far as you want and what's right depends on how far you take this.

Also who decides on quality if you want to simplify to quality vs quantity?

I know you don't literally mean that, but... still...

steephie/ora,

Again, though, there's no indication that our population is going to grow without bound, and if you're suggesting that 9-10 billion is going to cause rampant death, disease, and dystopia when 7 billion is being accomodated *reasonably* well, I am very skeptical. (Yes, there are problems with 7 billion, but there have always been problems of one sort or another).

Also, ora, I'm already familiar with vhemnt. They're hilarious. I certainly appreciate their devotionto voluntariness, and wish that every other group of crazy people would follow suit.

I'm not "afraid" of fertile women. I'm just afraid that women who have children are less likely to be successful and provide for themselves. That's statistically speaking, of course. I'm not in any position to judge what each woman feels is the right choice for herself. If she wants to try for a traditional family, that's OK too.

For an article with the thesis statement: "America's embrace of low fertility rates is becoming a problem," it does remarkably little to do anything to show that this is in any way problematic. In fact, the only "problems" mentioned in the text are bullet points regarding abortion. Seems to me that the only problem this article truly has is with abortion itself, and it's trying to create a false association with its pro-woman title and a pro-life stance in a shamefully transparent way.

Let me be plain: for a woman to be pro-choice does not mean "fear of fertility," and women should absolutely not allow themselves to believe that any choice they make is cheating themselves of their "proper role" as established by religion and tradition.

Why did you post this, Semck?