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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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Tenacious Grip (155 D)
11 Jun 13 UTC
Where has the Mediterranean Gone?
If anyone is up for some good ol' medium - stakes med games Hit Me UP
0 replies
Open
zultar (4180 DMod(P))
09 Jun 13 UTC
gameID=120624 was canceled due to site violations
This live gunboat game was canceled since two people who knew each other played in the same game and they communicated outside of the site, which gave them an unfair advantage. They did not know the rules and now they have been warned. Any further infraction on their part will result in a ban.
Please do not try to determine who they were as this was swiftly dealt with.
Thank you for understanding.
35 replies
Open
Draugnar (0 DX)
11 Jun 13 UTC
Defiance is an awesome game too!
So after the attack last night on my laptop, I decided to scrub it and start from scratch (new Sony Vaios have their OS on some firmware) so I completely formatted it and reinstalled using the VAIO key. I thought I'd give Defiance another tyr (an earlier attempt never ran) so I installed it and it ran great! Awesome game play and very immersive graphics. Not a fan of the odd keyboard and mouse, but I will probably remap those to match WoW/STO/other MMOs.
4 replies
Open
Draugnar (0 DX)
10 Jun 13 UTC
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24 replies
Open
krellin (80 DX)
10 Jun 13 UTC
Call Me a Douchebag
Yes, it's time put together 7 fearless foes for a no-holds barred, low-point, non-anon game. Friends and foes welcome. Let's duke it out.

Submit your name and a fantastic bit of verbal abuse for consideration.
71 replies
Open
Blackbeard1680 (0 DX)
11 Jun 13 UTC
Fast game!
Hello everybody, I would like to have a live classic match and nobody seems to see it, so I will post it here...
gameID=120804
0 replies
Open
Draugnar (0 DX)
09 Jun 13 UTC
Fucking asswipe mod abuse!
I wasn't the next one to post and was trying to get people to stop and yet *I* got docked 20 fucking points! Fucking mods abuaing their fucking power again!!!!!!
82 replies
Open
2ndWhiteLine (2601 D(B))
09 Jun 13 UTC
(+10)
So a funny thing happened on the way to work today...
I blacked out for a few minutes and when I came to it turned out I had just gotten engaged. Weird.
33 replies
Open
redhouse1938 (429 D)
04 Jun 13 UTC
New game
gameID=120097
For people who are in the top 250 in this list:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0Ar7_3gsXAPwtdDVwZEloT3QycWRJc2FvYklrc0Y1X3c&output=html
31 replies
Open
erist (228 D(B))
10 Jun 13 UTC
Is it cheating to refuse to draw/cancel?
When your opponents CDs have created a unfair advantage for you?
6 replies
Open
Lando Calrissian (100 D(S))
09 Jun 13 UTC
SRGB GAME
To rekindle the lusthog squad, looking for 6 players who are willing to commit NOT voting draw until a stalemate line is reached and formed (read: no movements).
40 replies
Open
Gamma (570 D)
10 Jun 13 UTC
World game
Just a new world game that needs more players.

http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=120626
0 replies
Open
HumanWave (337 D)
10 Jun 13 UTC
Question about metagaming: the continuing discussion…
;)
1 reply
Open
Jamiet99uk (808 D)
09 Jun 13 UTC
"Coalition" voting in the Modern Diplomacy II variant
Has anyone encountered this? Using the "draw" voting button early on in a Modern Diplomacy II game to indicate your interest in forming a coalition to dominate the board? Seems dodgy to me. Not in the spirit of the rules. Thoughts, anyone?
31 replies
Open
zultar (4180 DMod(P))
09 Jun 13 UTC
(+3)
So a funny thing happened on the way to work yesterday...
My significant e-partner (online for the slowpokes) blacked out today, and I took advantage of him. When he came to and I came as well, we had gotten engage. Weird.
14 replies
Open
MajorMitchell (1874 D)
08 Jun 13 UTC
(+1)
Don't let Draugnar join
"Don't let Draugnar join" is a new game I just created
37 replies
Open
krellin (80 DX)
07 Jun 13 UTC
Sea Monsters
http://www.grindtv.com/outdoor/nature/post/rov-captures-first-ever-footage-of-oarfish-in-the-wild/
Another example of idiotic reporting. First Ever footage of Deep Sea creature...presumed responsible for spawning myths of sea monsters among ancient mariners.

Can you identify the flaw in the moronic author's comments?
23 replies
Open
bzip2 (100 D)
06 Jun 13 UTC
What do you think are the books that everyone should read?
Hello everyone. I am trying to make a summer reading list and was wondering what the webDiplomacy community's favorite books are. Maybe I will get some ideas!
120 replies
Open
SpeakerToAliens (147 D(S))
09 Jun 13 UTC
R.I.P. Iain M Banks
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22835047

I really liked his Culture stories. "Excession" was particulary fine.
0 replies
Open
cpman (0 DX)
09 Jun 13 UTC
Anyone Up for a VERY LONG Game?
I have a VERY LONG game for any and all who will only be able to check up sporadically next week (like me).
Each phase is 5 days long, and it starts on Monday. The gameID=120582 Enjoy!
5 replies
Open
MadMarx (36299 D(G))
09 Jun 13 UTC
couch to marathon
I've got the couch part down, and only 20 weeks to make the transition: http://www.columbiagorgemarathon.com/
2 replies
Open
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
07 Jun 13 UTC
PRISM
Have people been following this? Is it to be expected? Is the media just creating a stir or is this some nefarious government plot?
http://www.theverge.com/2013/6/7/4406416/president-obama-on-nsa-spying-congress-has-known-about-it-and
20 replies
Open
nnfolz (100 D)
09 Jun 13 UTC
Question about metagaming
Is it meta-gaming when a player admits that his alliance with 3 other players wont break because they are real life friends and all 4 of them are literally sitting on the same room?
49 replies
Open
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
09 Jun 13 UTC
Good Takeover Position
Good game, I'm not involved in it but it looks like it has potential...

gameID=119798
2 replies
Open
jimgov (219 D(B))
09 Jun 13 UTC
So how did you read the press, Trip?
I'm just wondering how you were able to read the press in a game that does not have public press. Obviously, my comment hit home that you were friends with one of the players involved.
7 replies
Open
Thucydides (864 D(B))
02 Jun 13 UTC
Turkey
Talk about unrest in Istanbul, Ankara, others.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/fe6cfa9a6d45b0dd43fe513236fe94f5/tumblr_mnqsjpZnHx1qm2tv9o1_1280.jpg
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Draugnar (0 DX)
03 Jun 13 UTC
@Invictus - You would be the mistaken one. Look up dry counties in Kentucky and Tennessee. You can't drink in them at all except for religious observances.
anlari (8640 D)
03 Jun 13 UTC
Consistent. Has this been corroborated?

It's the boyfriend of someone I personally know. also there are several videos of police violence - you should be able to find them pretty easily but pm me if you want links
Invictus (240 D)
03 Jun 13 UTC
Link, Draugnar. I think you're full of shit or grossly misunderstood whatever you read.


If anyone was wondering, my buddy's girlfriend is safe. Very, very close to this park, though.
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
03 Jun 13 UTC
@Invictus ... http://io9.com/5895477/these-are-the-places-in-america-where-alcohol-is-still-banned
Invictus (240 D)
03 Jun 13 UTC
An example of grossly misunderstanding. A dry county is one where the SALE of alcohol is banned, not the possession or consumption of it. Internet people are so stupid.
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
03 Jun 13 UTC
Dry counties forbid the sale and consumption of alcohol. Some in the United States exhibit either half of that, but many ban both sales and consumption.
Draugnar (0 DX)
03 Jun 13 UTC
http://www.libationlawblog.com/libationlawblogcom/2013/2/21/the-history-of-the-currently-unconstitutional-kentucky-statute-prohibiting-grocery-stores-and-convenience-stores-from-selling-liquor-and-wine

A great link laying out the history of Kentucky prohibition by popular vote and the fact that, at one point, 90 counties still prohibited alcoholic consumption despite the federal repeal of the 18th amendment. Period.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_county

Covers a little more even the fact that consumption is banned by the Navaho.

Draugnar (0 DX)
03 Jun 13 UTC
@invictus - Yes, people on the internet are so stupid, yourself included. Counties where sales are banned but consumption is unrestricted are called "moist" counties. Look in the mirror when you start calling people stupid, won't you?
Invictus (240 D)
04 Jun 13 UTC
No, I am still right. Your first link says only that Kentucky counties (and only Kentucky counties; what happened to Tennessee?) MAY outlaw the consumption of alcohol, not that any still do. And it provides no definition of what consumption means. It could be just a way to prevent bars from overcharging for a sandwich and having it come with a "free" drink. "Moist county" seems to have so many different definitions depending on state and circumstance that it can mean almost anything.

And as for the Navaho issue, it undermines your point. It is an example of the SALE being banned. The Navaho Nation page says that the sale is banned, clear as day in the police section.

The big issue, though, is whether any counties still do ban consumption. You've offered no proof that that is the case. I'm willing to bet that all counties have repealed their bans but since they are all gone there is no way to challenge them in court so they are struck down and therefore they remain on the books, unused and unenforced.

And Prohibition never made consumption or private possession of alcohol illegal, as you seem to say in your post. So who's stupid? The Google scholar who's just anxious to prove somebody wrong and so looks for what he thinks is a technicality, I think.
Invictus (240 D)
04 Jun 13 UTC
PM me for anything else. This is a good thread that you ought not hijack.
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
04 Jun 13 UTC
Invictus, read the first two sentences of the Wikipedia article, admit you're wrong, and move on. You are allowed to be wrong. It's okay. We'll all recover from it.
Draugnar (0 DX)
04 Jun 13 UTC
From Navajonation.org

SECTION ll Questions 89-151

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

89.Are alcoholic beverages legal on the Reservation?
Federal Law prohibits the possession, sale or consumption of alcoholic beverages. Restaurants usually stock nonalcoholic brews.

The Navajo have banned *consumption*. Right there. In black and white. *Consumption*. Quick being such a stupid fuck. You are breaking Navajo law to even bring alcohol onto their land (except where interstate commerce supersedes it as in trains, trucks, busses, etc. travelling through, but not stopping on, Navajo property).

http://www.navajocentral.org/faq02b.htm

As far as Dry Coutnies, as bo
Draugnar (0 DX)
04 Jun 13 UTC
sorry, navajocentral.org (correct in the link I provided).
Draugnar (0 DX)
04 Jun 13 UTC
As far as Dry counties, as bo said, dry means no consumption. As far as them being found unconstitutional, that is simply false.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-first_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

This lays out just how the Supreme court has interpreted the 21st amendment which has no limits on

"Section 2. The transportation or importation into any State, Territory, or possession of the United States for delivery or use therein of intoxicating liquors, in violation of the laws thereof, is hereby prohibited."

This puts the power in the States hands and, as long as they don't violate the 14th Amendment's equal protection clause or Interstate Commerce, the states are free to completely ban all alcohol within their borders if they so choose.

At one time, 90 countries in Kentucky had absolute bans on alcohol. Kentucky's constitution makes it clear that the populace in a county or even in a district/city/township/whatever, may vote to ban alcohol completely within their borders.

I may have misspoke on Tennessee. I agree. I don't know Tennessee law with regards to that (except that Lynchburg/Moore County was once completely dry with no consumption or sale and Jack Daniels had to get it out of the county to a warehouse in a neighboring county before they could sell their product and no one in the county at that time could drink it). But I know the history of Kentucky and I know that as little as just a decade ago, there were still hold out counties that banned the consumption of alcohol as well as it's sale.

But the fact is, whether or not any given area I can find on the internet happens to be 100% dry anymore, the definition of dry can include *all* consumption and it doesn't violate the US Constitution. as Clause 2 of the 21st amendment gives all that right to the state.
largeham (149 D)
04 Jun 13 UTC
The fact that you guys ever banned alcohol is ready proof that America truly is the Great Satan.
anlari (8640 D)
04 Jun 13 UTC
Here are some videos/pictures with polic brutality in turkey. they are merely the tip of the iceberg..

This website is trying to compile videos/photos

http://delilimvar.tumblr.com/

Another website with a number of photos:

http://imgur.com/q3XfOFf

Some particular videos that I have come across

Police shooting unarmed protestor in the face with gas canister (several people lost their eyes like this)

http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-981250/?t=Turkish+Police+shoots+unarmed+protestor+then+celebrates

protestor shot by real bullet (this is a mainstream newspaper's website):

http://webtv.radikal.com.tr/Turkiye/3700/polis-kursunuyla-mi-vuruldu.aspx

More police violence:

http://webtv.radikal.com.tr/Turkiye/3697/polis-siddeti-devam-etti.aspx

AK supporters with sticks joining riot police to attack people in İzmir:

http://webtv.radikal.com.tr/Turkiye/3705/izmirde-civili-sopalarla-halka-saldiranlar-kimler.aspx

and

http://webtv.radikal.com.tr/Turkiye/3719/izmirde-kari-kocaya-saldiri.aspx

10 policemen beating up a girl in İzmir:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39xfuLUUbos

Police attacking youths which are not even protesting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDUjlnJa07M

some more beatings:

http://webtv.radikal.com.tr/Turkiye/3653/yorumsuz.aspx

http://webtv.radikal.com.tr/Turkiye/3648/polis-gostericileri-odunla-doverek-dagitti.aspx
Thucydides (864 D(B))
04 Jun 13 UTC
Can I ask a simple question and get a simple answer?

Why the FUCK are you talking about legal quibbles related to local American alcohol laws. This thread is about social and civic unrest in Turkey. Take it somewhere else.
Invictus (240 D)
04 Jun 13 UTC
That's what I said.

So what's the protesters' end-game, besides keeping the park? Is it new elections? Or just Erdogan's resignation? Ten years seems like plenty of time for any democratic leader (which he is, after all) to be at the helm.
Thucydides (864 D(B))
05 Jun 13 UTC
They're saying that he is becoming increasingly despotic, which is certainly plausible. The protests are fresh enough that I don't think any endgame other than "the regime deserves to be protested" has formed.
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
05 Jun 13 UTC
The fact of the matter in most protests is that the actual protesting has nothing to do with the original cause of the protests. Most of the protests anymore have no common end. People just want the regime to fall and then it goes into utter chaos again.
Hereward77 (930 D)
05 Jun 13 UTC
I'm really not clued up on Turkish politics beyond the very basics. Could someone who knows about it explain to me if there is a method to deal with Prime Ministerial/ruling party abuse of power, such as the vote of no confidence in the UK? If there is, why has it not been used if Erdogan is becoming 'despotic'?

If the answer is simply that his party has the most parliamentary seats and thus would win such a vote is Erdogan's power not just democracy in action?

As I said, I would appreciate someone who knows Turkish politics explaining this.
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
06 Jun 13 UTC
Hundreds of people are outside the NTV stations' headquarters right now. Wonder who will fold first: media or people...
Timur (673 D(B))
07 Jun 13 UTC
@anlari: thx for the links
anlari (8640 D)
07 Jun 13 UTC
Erdogan is still calling the protesters vandals, and talking about an 'interest rate lobby' which is apparently making the stock markets crash (they fall by 5% everytime he speaks) and making the foreign press oppose him. He also said 17 people died in occupy wall street due to police violence and that everyone who drinks alcohol is an alcoholic, except for those who vote for him. Imagine having this guy rule your country with absolute power.

Regadless, he has enough seats in the parliament to keep his government and if there was an election he would probably get over 40% and stay in power. Why? Several reasons. Firstly, he has complete control on the media & the courts, so many people who have written against him are either fired or in jail and the rest are too scared (For the first few days of the protests, the main TV channels were showing documentaries about penguins and pretending like nothing happened. The one channel which aired the protests already received a warning from the TV authority for 'insulting the prime minister'. They will probably have their licence revoked, he has already threatened them in his speeches.) Secondly, many people are dumb enough to buy into his rhetoric of foreign plots & terrorists. It also helps that he gives a lot of handouts (coal for heating, furniture, cash, free meals, etc) just for joining his rallies & voting for him. I am not talking about social security, I am talking about using public tax revenues to give party handouts. Third, the opposition is horribly disorganized.

In a sense, the protests are more about freedom than democracy. Sure, whatever the reason, a large part of the population supports him - but that should not give him the right to dictate and micromanage what people eat, drink, or smoke, which statue is destroyed (a few years ago he called a statue of peace a monstrosity, it was destroyed in a few days), which public building gets replaced, what the media prints and who has the right to protest (see parenthesis at the bottom) and who goes in jail through show trials (An example is explained here: http://rodrik.typepad.com/dani_rodriks_weblog/2013/01/turkish-court-provides-lack-of-reasoning-behind-sledgehammer-verdict.html Turkey also has more journalists in jail than China or Iran.) and so it goes on. We do not want to elect a dictator every 5 years and then do as he says - this is the difference between a functioning democracy and tyranny of the majority.

I am glad that the protesters have no leader or common cause - His threats, incursions into private life and his perversion of democracy and the legal system have united a population which has always been so fractious. This goes to show you how upset people are. They do not even want the regime to fall - they just want him to stop being a prick. They want to be able to protest without being gassed and beaten to near death by a police force that behaves more like an invading army (worse in some respects - they even attack doctors who are giving medical treatment and gas ambulances). They want to be able to tweet whatever they want without being arrested. They want their taxes to be spent for the good of the public rather than to bribe voters & to buy tear gas and armoured vehicles which are only used to oppress them. I could go on forever..

(at the moment only his supporters do - while the protesters were gathering, the municipality, shut down the subway and anyone on the streets was attacked by the police. People who tweeted that they are going to protest have been arrested for 'inciting to riot'. Then last night Erdogan held a 'spontaneous rally' outside the airport at 3 am when he arrived - So spontaneous that his party sent texts to its members telling them to go, bussed people there, and the subway stayed open until the morning even though it shuts down at 12 usually. No police intervention or arrests, of course, even though they chanted 'let us go to taksim and destroy them').
Hereward77 (930 D)
07 Jun 13 UTC
I just don't understand what the other powerbases are doing. Is there no real parliamentary opposition? No rebellion within his own party? Is there no judicial independence at all? Why isn't the army doing anything (and from other reading I've done, they have an unusual record of maintaining secularism and Ataturk's original ideals)? What about the Turkish president?

If the protesters have as big a point as they seem to, why isn't ANY other powerbase like those above doing anything about it?
redhouse1938 (429 D)
07 Jun 13 UTC
One concerning thing would be that he calls all people who drink alcohol alcoholics. I would love to see a reference of that. Essentially, he's saying that the secular part of Turkish society (I'm assuming a good portion of that drinks alcohol every once in a while) is sick! After all, alcoholism is a medical condition. This is why on this forum I've always insisted that beside a separation of church and state, there should be an equally solid barrier between science and state: it is up to the medical community to determine which amount of alcohol consumption amounts to an anomalous amount. Innocent as Erdogan's opinion on this matter seems, my instincts say this is actually much more dangerous than the admittedly fierce crackdown on the protestors. Political extremists left and right all have a nasty habit of believing there is something psychologically wrong with those who disagree with them.
@Hereward77 - Erdogan has spent the better part of his time in power destroying the ability of the army to intervene in politics - and that's a good thing in my eyes. I still would say that from my point of view that the army has some independent power, but it has significantly decreased (ie. it's nothing like the reputation the Egyptian military had).

But, at the same time as anlari has said, he's undermined the independence of the court system and the press, which gives him a dangerous amount of power.
anlari (8640 D)
07 Jun 13 UTC
Anyone that was opposing him in the army is in jail (see the rodrik link I posted in the previous messages) - he has installed his own men at the top. So the army will be inactive throughout, which is not necessarily a bad thing - no one wants this to be hijacked by a coup. People want more freedom, not less :)

He has complete control over the courts (or actually, the Gulen cult which is supporting him does, they have infiltrated it completely - same thing with police, this is a whole different story though. It is to the extent that people have been jailed for writing books that expose this, and now people are being picked up for tweeting as I mentioned above).

The parliamentary opposition, as I mentioned above, is perpetually incompetent, disorganized & fractious, to the extent that some people suspect he has bought them out, or maybe has files on them. In any case, they are so unpopular that they are trying to dissociate themselves from the protests so that he doesn't use it an excuse to declare it an attempted coup.

He has basically spent 10 years destroying all the other power bases and concentrating power in himself

The only possibility short of civil war is a rebellion from within his party - it is composed of religious fanatics & the centre right, with the president (who was no. 2 in his party & has religious roots) being closer to the latter group. I think there is something going on - the deputy PM and the president are taking a much softer line and were subtly undermining him when he was abroad. But it will be really hard - firstly he controls all the patronage networks, secondly he is very popular with his base, to the extent that it has become a personality cult. So if they move against him, he could split the party and take away half the votes they get. Finally, he has the threat of an early election, which would keep the party in line (there are no proper party elections, he basically decides who runs for MP), prevent the protesters from organizing, and give him a 'mandate' to continue what he is doing. There are rumours he is about to do this actually..
@anlari - what about the CHP? What percent of seats do they control?
anlari (8640 D)
07 Jun 13 UTC
Redhouse - this is from a TV interview he gave on Sunday. It is on youtube, but it is in turkish. The interviewer specifically asked if he was referring to people who drink occasionally and he said yes that's the definition of alcoholic. It is not about ideologically believing something is wrong with their psychology - he just has a very narrow minded view of the world stemming from his very pious bringing up, which is worsened by his revanchist and paranoid tendencies (plus a hefty amount of power drunkenness). Think of Sarah Palin.

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79 replies
redhouse1938 (429 D)
06 Jun 13 UTC
Movie quotes
Post the best here, even though it's been done.
42 replies
Open
nnfolz (100 D)
08 Jun 13 UTC
Hawaii glitch?
I've occupied Hawaii for 2 autumn phases and one spring phase and it hasn't changed to my color. I got credit for taking the SC so I was able to build just fine, but no color change.
9 replies
Open
krellin (80 DX)
06 Jun 13 UTC
Alt Names....
If you could....if you were so devious and underhanded and inclined to do so...

What would you Alternate Name be???
18 replies
Open
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
04 Jun 13 UTC
(+3)
#FuckDaPoPo
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/06/04/the-blackwhite-marijuana-arrest-gap-in-nine-charts/

Keeping in mind that if you're black, they'll probably beat the living shit out of you. Post-racial America ftw!
156 replies
Open
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