I don't think it is necessary to lie in order to win. But I do think that a lot of players find it easier to lie.

I've seen a lot of that as well - I would've thought that that way leaves you open to doubt in the future (unless you're in an Anon game of course)

Personally, I don't see any difference in misleading someone and lying to them. Either way, the truth is out the window. But this is something we all have to do from time to time since Diplomacy is essentially a game of liar's dice with more strategy.

While I agree with rojimy about misleading being the same as lying, it's the degree or method of it that's in question.

Misleading is subtle and gets the other person to draw the wrong conclusion by the way you sow your words.

Lying is simply putting blatantly and completely false information out there that can only be understood as a completely false statement.

For example, you mislead people often by using the words "I may be able to" "I could" etc. it has the feel of a political lie that doesn't outwardly lie and in a court of law, couldn't be proven as a lie. An outright lie is only proven to be just that--a lie. Examples include "I will" "I won't" "I didn't" "I am" etc.

i usually do whatever it takes to win, however i usually only lie when i plan on backstabbing

I also feel each has its place in the game. I tend to tell the truth 95+% of the time and only lie when it counts. I've found that it's important to build enough credibility in a game so that if you ever play with someone again, they may remember the stab but not remember you lying about it coming. You need players to see you as trustworthy and reliable enough to work with.

Believe me when I say I have played with people that only lied year after year and it cripples my ability to believe them in the next game we meet in, and that's not meta gaming, it's recognizing the play style of those in the game and building your strategy around what you know.

I think you'll find that it is indeed meta gaming. Not rule breaking, but definitely meta gaming

Chaps, sorry to jump in mid discussion, but I desperately need a player:
1 more player needed. Anonymous, public press. http://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=146904
pssword id either spinitback or slamitdown (sorry, I can't remember)
Please join so we can kick this mother off

First, each game must stand on it's own, otherwise it's meta-gaming. This is the knock about playing non-anon, do people play the country or the player? Mis-leading and lying are about the same, and both are required to be a good diplomat. Just when and where, is harder to ascertain. Tru, I believe has it correct that truth 90+% of the time will get you further farther! but to be successful in terms of possible solo's lying has it's place.

I don't know about them being the same. I rather like a good honest lie. The sort that comes before an attempted stab, and is often followed by an apology. I have a lot of time for people who do that, and tend to view them as people I can work with regardless (I like to think I have a knack for smelling stabs, and more often than not counter them rather well. Indeed, most of my finest alliances grew from the ashes of failed stabs and respectful reconciliation).

What I can't stand, however, is the political style weasel words that aren't lies but are blatently designed to put you in a poor position, or the lie in the style of "sorry, I misordered". Often they are obviously untrue, and the insistance of the other player carrying on with them is nothing short of an insult. I delight in plotting the demise of these players :).

good honest lie. An oxymoron ....hehe

Every third word said in a diplomacy game is a lie. I have a feeling people lie just to lie. It usually serves no purpose.

Everyone, we now all know that the third word is a lie in all diplomacy games...you may hang your hat on all else, but the third word.....so says master Putin.

Did I provoke this one Zultar?

No, but I don't see ssorenn attacking you either unless you think that if your name is mentioned then you are attacked. If that's the case, I suggest both of you mute each other for everyone else's enjoyment.

Putin. Do you want a tissue? I merely explained, what you said, and gabe you credit for being a master. What bad about that?

Gave^

If you say so.

I would like to mute you, Zultar, but unfortunately I can't get rid of you.

Now if you would like me to elaborate on what I think your the master of, well, then we might have an issue.

Putin that's just disrespectful.

Chillax, kids.

I have never told a lie in a game of Diplomacy, as I always tell the truth in the moment, it's just that sometimes those truths turn into lies at a later time... Yes, that's a lie...

Muting bosox would also be a bonus.

Putin, if you can't stand me or have respect for the mods, you can feel free to leave the site. Otherwise, you'll continue to see us participate in the forum and run the site.

Yes, I'm aware that you're a pest I cannot get rid of except by leaving. Thanks for reminding me.

Actually I can ban you or silence you if you continue to disregard our request to not attack other members or to continually provoke me or the mods and waste our time by having us address your inane comments constantly.

You haven't given any such requests. You've instead hounded me in half the threads I post in simply to criticize my commentary in general, almost always when it's about nobody in particular. I asked you to stop and you refuse.

Not surprising that your first and last instinct is to make threats, of banishment no less.

Returning to the subject of lying, I've been really impressed by the sense of community and mutual respect that has developed since the recent forum changes.