Professors:
Barn3tt
Lando
Skittles
The Czech

Thank you, JMO and Chaqa, for setting this GB SOW up. I look forward to providing some commentary as the game progresses. As I told Chaqa, I am only able to provide some limited commentary at this time which I hope to focus on move and game play analysis once we're off and running. Profs, please feel free to introduce the game and provide any opening remarks that would be of benefit to the gunboat SOW students and observers. :)

Tagging thread so I can follow along.

Adding a star!

Are there TA's for this game, or is it only students/professors?

starification bump.

There are TA's, but their country assignments are being kept anonymous per the TD's request. I pm'ed all the TA's and their students and let them know to vote unpause once they were in contact.

Bump, looks like 6 of the 7 student and TA pairs have been in contact so we should be able to get underway shortly.

Looking forward to commentary on the openings.

Ooooh, adjudication!

Bump, looks like we processed.

Looks like I'm a bit late for the party, as the first moves have already processed. I typed up some comments I meant to post yesterday to introduce everyone to the game, and I'll be posting my comments on the opening moves later.

Thanks to Chaqa for organizing this game, jmo and any other mod who assisted in setting the game up, and my fellow professors, as well all of our TAs, for donating their time and knowledge in helping newer players improve their game.

Welcome, students. The seven of you have the opportunity to learn the art of gunboat from seven very talented gunboaters. Gunboat and full press diplomacy, while played on the same board and adjudicated by the same rules, are very different games. A very good full press player may be mediocre at gunboat, and an expert gunboat player may be mediocre at full press.

Gunboat is all about the orders. Actions speak; there are no words to get in the way. Don't confuse the lack of words with a lack of communication. You communicate with your orders, and like with press, your orders can tell a story of truth, or they can be a blatant lie. A simple support hold can mean a genuine token of friendship, or can be a blatant lie before an immediate stab, and you will be required to make a decision on the authenticity of the messages that other players are sending you.


Some tips for our students:

-Talk to your TA's as much as you can. Hopefully, your TA will also proactively be communicating with you as well, but take it upon yourself to ask them any questions you may have.

-Avoid simply asking your TA "What should I do here?" Your TAs are here to give you advice, provide gunboat strategy, answer your questions, point out things you need to be considering, and tell you what potential options you may have. Naturally, you will talk about orders with your TA, but remember that they aren't here to play the game for you.

-You don't have to stay limited to your own nation when asking your professors questions. Students are encouraged to ask questions about what is going on on the opposite theater, because you will gain valuable insight into additional options you may have (or risks you may face) now or in the future. At the very least, you'll gain valuable insight that will help you in future games.

Do our TA's get to talk to us, too?

What do you mean Bob?

bump

@VB you should be talking to your TA every turn about your moves, the other countries moves, what the different moves are signaling, etc. If you cannot get in touch with your TA please let me know asap.

Spring 1901: Opening Orders

In gunboat games, you will notice that powers typically open fairly standard, and there's good reasons for doing so. To begin with, Standard openings are usually pretty safe and leave you with options for the future. In press games, you have a wide variety of openings you can choose from, but most of these gambits work better when you can talk to your neighbors. You can discuss intricate plans that you would have very little chance to coordinate in gunboat, and you can get a feel for your neighbors to see if you think they are open to working with you. In gunboat, you don't have that luxury. Typically, it is a good idea to open into a position that can lead you on a path to success regardless how the other powers in the game open.

For those reasons, Spring 1901 has the tendency to be a bit boring in a gunboat game. Let's take a look at how our students chose to open:

The West:

Of the two theaters, the West is is a bit more interesting. Spring 01 is usually pretty boring, especially in the West, but we have some less-common moves here that can lead to some interesting dynamics. Neither France nor Germany have expressed immediate desire to go to battle with each other, but that's a fight that can easily flare up in 1902. The Scandinavian situation is interesting, and has the potential to play out a number of different ways.


Now, to the individual nations. I'm going to avoid letter grades, at least for this turn, as it should be hard to mess things up.

England:

You chose the only option available to you that will guarantee you get a build, and there's nothing wrong with that. Opening to Edi would have left you some additional flexibility for your fall orders, but you chose the option that would let you force Norway, had Russia opened north, and defend London, had France opened to the Channel.

Speaking of your fall orders, be sure to talk to your TA. The choice you make now will send a strong message to your neighbors about your intentions. You don't have the luxury of making a neutral move here. Every choice you have will upset one, or more, of your neighbors, so consider what story you will be telling with your actions.


France:

That's not my favorite French opening. Personally, I like to guarantee that I'll have a unit adjacent to Belgium, especially if my German neighbor decides to open to Burgundy. The last thing I want is Belgium sitting wide open, inviting the convoy of a potentially hostile English army with a German who has already shown his apparent hostile disposition towards me, with my armies sitting in Marseilles and Gascony, of which one is required to fall back to Spain if I want to build two. Nevertheless, Germany opened to Ruhr so any disaster was avoided.

Aside from that, your opening is neutral. It's slightly pro-German, but you can easily work with either England or Germany. Italy opened to Piedmont, which is an annoyance to you. Most likely, he's not coming after you in 1902. However, that could easily change if he sneaks Marseilles here. Italy is either hoping that either you defend Marseilles so that you can't build there, or he's hoping that you don't defend it and let him sneak in. It's up to you to decide how to react to the situation. There is an option for you to guarantee that you hold Marseilles and take Spain, but that could leave you vulnerable on another front. Ask your TA about good ways to proceed. This minor annoyance can turn into a big problem if you don't react properly.


Germany:

German openings are divided into two main categories: those with the fleet opening to Denmark, and those opening to Holland. You've chosen to open to Holland, which looks pro-Russian, because you've lost the option to deny him Sweden. However, you always have the option of going after it in 1902 or later. You've also left the possibility of England bouncing you in Denmark. It's risky, but it can reap great rewards if things work out in your favor.

At this point, you can work with either your English or your French neighbor, and you have some interesting options depending on who you choose to work with. Personally, I know what moves I'm rooting for.


The East:

In the east, all the openings are pretty much standard. It's too early to tell for sure, but it sure appears we could be in for a classic Juggernaut vs. AT. Will someone decide to change it up and turn a 2v2 fight into a 3v1? We will have to wait and see.

Italy:

I like the open to Piedmont. It keeps the French honest, and he has to decide whether or not to defend Marseilles. It eliminates your option to try and sneak into Trieste in the Autumn, but that can also be seen as a benefit. It also alleviates the Austrian's fear of you sneaking in, so he's free to go ahead and take Greece and, most likely, keep Russia out of Galacia. If you are looking to continue on with the Lepanto, you are off to a wonderful start.


Austria:

This opening is standard, and it's one I love and use nearly 100% of the time when I draw Austria in gunboat. I find that defending against a Spring 01 stab from Italy is not optimal for a few reasons. First, the stab usually isn't coming. If I am going to get attacked by Italy, my game is usually going to be over pretty quickly anyway, so I'd rather set myself up to be in the best position. My priorities when I'm playing Austria are to 1) keep Russia out of Galacia (and, hopefully, occupy it myself) and 2) ensure I get Greece. To defend against an Italian stab, you are giving up one of these options.

Things are looking pretty good for you right now. You are set to pickup Greece, you don't have the threat of an Italian move to Trieste, and you will keep Russia out of Galacia, unless he opts to support himself in.

You do have the option of using Serbia to support Turkey into Rumania, hoping that he elects to move there instead of Greece. This is a risk however, as it allows Turkey to bounce you in Greece. Even if he does bounce you, he may see your support order and use that as a sign to launch an attack against Russia. Or, he'll just continue with the Juggernaut against a 4-center Austria. With a seemingly willing ally in Italy, is it something you are willing to risk?

Russia:

Your opening was the extremely standard southern campaign. It keeps Austria out of Galacia, it keeps Turkey out of the Black Sea, and it puts an army into Ukraine to help you take Rumania, which you are guaranteed to take except by cooperation between Austria and Turkey.

You are in a good situation here. You have a solid influence in the south, and with Germany opening to Holland, you are Guaranteed to take Sweden. You will probably build two here, so you should be free to build a unit in StP to either defend against an English offensive, or to start a northern front of your own, should you want to.

Turkey:

Congratulations. You made the one logical opening for Turkey in gunboat. In press games, you have a few different options available because of the press you exchange with your neighbors. Without that press, any other move is a complete gamble.

While you made the the right decision, there are some red flags on the board. Italy looks to be trying to Lepanto, and Austria can put his fleet in Greece, which will make your life uncomfortable in 1902.

You have a decision to make now regarding your army. Do you move to Rumania (hoping Austria support you so you bounce Russia or take it outright)? Do you move to Greece (hoping Austria supports you to Rumania so you bounce him in Greece)? Do you support Russia into Rum as a sign of cooperation?

@Professor may I make two questions? Thanks.
1.In which potential situation after spring '01 denying Sweden to Russia is an option?
2.What is to be liked about Italian opening to Piedmont? Why is he off to a wonderfull start if he's looking to continue off with the Lepanto and at the same time invites France to change his usual objectives and builds anti-Italy in this case?

catfight, I love it! :D

*...continue ON with the Lepanto...*- sorry about that.

Pet peave: Galicia, not Galacia or Galatia.

I would love to hear the responses to SD's questions.

@The TA's,

I know this is probably a significant change if you're used to gunboats, but we're really looking for you to have some pretty detailed conversations with your students. Basically assume that they don't understand any of the signals the other countries are giving with their moves, and that they don't understand the basic openings. This is an opportunity to really help some interested players learn as much about this style of diplomacy as possible. So try and explain everything to your student and teach them as much as possible!

Bump. Moves just processed.

hahaha, I can see Split's question had an influence on the moves this turn. That is why this is a learning game, so the students get to see when they make mistakes by the comments of the sites best.

I'm more curious about the first question and about the fact our professor likes to bounce Russia over Sweden without a reason.He should provide to his students an example in which Germany lose a game just because of such manuevar in fall '01.There are tones of games on the site which prove how THE denial is a bad decision but the easiest way to find one is to take a look at his last (and probably first) high pot game on the site.
Thanks for explaining "Piedmont & Sweden situation",by the way,"professor".

Split, thanks for the points of discussion. I do agree that the bounce in Sweden should be carefully considered, and that often times it is executed far too readily. I generally do not bounce the Russian. However, in the last high stakes game I did (not sure why) and still managed to make the 3-way draw.

If Austria allows Russia into Gal and the prospects of a 7 center Russia emerges, then I think that it is prudent to bounce Russia. However, Russia in gunboat games can be a rather fragile country, and not one that merits being unnecessarily undermined.

Furthermore, the primary benefactor of the northern bounce is England. Allowing Russia into Sweden almost guarantees a build in St. Pete's and puts some real pressure on England. The bounce eliminates any offensive capability for Russia's southern fleet (except for against Germany), and alleviates pressure that Russia can place on England. While England may initially be annoyed if Germany allows Russia to sail into Sweden, the reality is that it can be quite difficult for England to pick up any more centers in the north without maintaining good relations with Germany. An England that does not feel any pressure from Russia in the north has a greater capacity to expand in the north which often leads to tearing into Germany.

Piedmont- I actually think that moving to Piedmont is a pretty good move for Italy. It puts pressure on Mar, but I certainly don't see it as an automatic act of war with France. Deciding to take a swipe at Mar can illicit a strong reaction from France, which without help from England and/or Germany is usually a waste of time for Italy. However, statistically France is a very strong country and by moving to Piedmont, Italy can potentially curb French growth. For instance in this game, far better for Italy to have a six center Germany than a six center France. Furthermore, there is always the potential for real opportunity. England might move to the Channel. Germany may find himself in Burgundy. In these situations, the army in Piedmont helps to encourage Germany and England to pursue a war with France, while posing significantly more defensive problems for France.

I will add comments as I find the time, for now I will continue on two points:

1) The move to Piedmont. In my mind, this is more than about Italy and France, it actually destabilizes the west quite a bit. The move forces France to cover BUR (assuming he is able - he was) and therefore means Germany has a free move. Most times Germany has a waste units guarding MUN from France, however, the move in Italy gave it free reign and consequently another centre. It's impossible to know what a 3 build Germany will mean exactly, but it certainly changes the dynamic from a truly neutral opening. I assume Italy has a plan on how to use this. France and England will need to react - not to mean in any specific direction, just generally.

2) Turkey supports Russia to RUM. This to me is kind of strange, however, it makes a little more sense knowing that Turkey was not guaranteed BLS. Often if Russia sees G in DEN he needs to support his move to RUM to ensure a +1. IN this case, Russia maybe could have bounced in the sea again. Turkey singled more than to Russia with his support, if he knows the black sea is his he doesn't need the signal because it will come soon enough. So maybe this had something to do with it. Otherwise, he has just wasted all chances of working with Italy or Austria in the early game or even them making a mistake and trusting him a move. I always try and support A or Italy as Turkey, itoften results in nothing, sometimes a great alliance, but sometimes them second guessing and trusting you one turn can also help. Cards are on the table to an extent. Russia has options, the others less so.

(in the south-east sphere that last sentence refers to)

As an aside, I believe personally the move to SWE in 01 from DEN is most of thetime ill-advised. I do see value in maintaining that option, however. The move to HOL in S01 I see as pro-Russia in an aggressive way. R/G can be great, but the move says to him "I trust you, now the cards are in your hands).

Interesting to see how everyone reacts to the unique variables we see in this 1901.