Babies cost the government a lot of money in lost tax revenue, childcare expenses, and schooling until they become economically productive members of society, which takes about 25-30 years now. Far better to discourage childbirth, impugn motherhood (homemakers aren't taxed on their labor, don't forget), and simply import fully-grown illegal aliens instead who work straightaway, don't ask questions, don't expect a decent living standard, and can be easily disposed of with an ICE deportation order the instant they become inconvenient to keep around.

@ Mollie Hemingway

Fecundophobia? Don't make me laugh. Society is full of intense pressure on young women to procreate. It's the "next step", it's what you do after getting married, buying a house, etc. If you don't have kids you're "missing out" and "have an emptiness in your life", blah, blah, blah. If society is fecundophobic they have a funny way of showing it, what with the laws mandating that fetuses born without a brain be born anyway, and their investment in deceptive, pronatalist "Pregnancy Crisis Centers" and laws mandating that fetuses who cannot develop a brain be born anyway, women be damned.

Breeders want everybody else to worship at the altar of childbreeding and motherhood, otherwise you're branded a fecundophobe. Not a word of skepticism about the whole project is allowed.

Not having kids does mean you'll have a blast with your spouse for decades and decades with lots more disposable income than you would with children. However, it must be a very bleak way to end your life when your wife's dead, your friends are dead, and you have no children to take care of you or visit you. Maybe that's a fair trade off, but I don't think so.

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy there won't be more Putin33's running around.

@Putin Wtf are you talking about? Mr. CF and I have decided not to have children and for the most part people are ok with it. There's only a few older customers of mine that really say something about it.

@Invictus there's also nieces and nephews and other ways of being in children's lives. That's a really narrow way of looking at it.

"there's also nieces and nephews and other ways of being in children's lives. That's a really narrow way of looking at it."

That's assuming there are nieces and nephews to know. What if your sibling had the same ideas you had about children, or you didn't have any to begin with? As for there being other ways, sure you can have family friends who look after you. But it's not going to be a replacement. Did you really love older family friends the way you loved your grandparents? Did they love you like they loved their grandchildren?

Like I said, it may be a fair trade off for decades of free fun. But it's only family that can really be there for you come what may, and ending your life without that kind of support is a pretty bad way to go out.

"There's only a few older customers of mine that really say something about it. "

Good for you. I'm sure your own personal experience speaks for us all and is a reflection of what childfree couples everywhere experience.

"I'm happy there won't be more Putin33's running around."

I'm happy a bunch of Predictus-bots get to suffer through the disaster that this planet is going to be in the next century, all because Predictus is attention-starved.

What an unlikable person you must be in real life, Putin33. Reducing the love a family to being attention-starved...

"But it's only family that can really be there for you come what may"

ROFLMAO

We've left reality and entered Leave It to Beaver Land.

Putin you act like you've experienced speak for everyone so don't give me that bullshit. I'm a women who will not be having children. I see a couple hundred people a day at work and I'm quite open with my regulars about not having children. I think I get a pretty good slice of how society treats women who don't want children.

"What an unlikable person you must be in real life, Putin33. "

Says someone whose hobbies include watching other people's lives fall apart via social media. Take a hike.

"Reducing the love a family to being attention-starved..."

That's exactly what it sounded like. You need kids to come visit you when you're old.

@Invictus There's also friends and extended family. Or you could go the way one of my now ex-coworkers did and befriend younger people. I know that anyone who worked withhim would help out him and his wife. There are other options there.

I don't want to make it sound like I think it's somehow illegitimate to not have children. People can live their lives however they choose. I'm just talking about what I believe and how I see things.

"Putin you act like you've experienced speak for everyone so don't give me that bullshit. "

No, not even a little bit. I've never taken anecdotal evidence seriously and never expected my own anecdotes to speak for anyone else.

@Invictus I understand that but just trying to explain that there's another side to it.

"There's also friends and extended family. Or you could go the way one of my now ex-coworkers did and befriend younger people. I know that anyone who worked withhim would help out him and his wife. There are other options there."

Up to a point, of course. But would they take him in to live with them so he didn't have to go to a home? Would they sit with him on his deathbed? I'm not talking about just being nice and helping out the kind old person you know to shovel the snow. I'm talking about the burdensome things that demand sacrifices from the younger, healthier person. You'd have to be very lucky to find a friend who's there for you in the way a child would be.

"I understand that but just trying to explain that there's another side to it."

Fair enough.

I know my husband and I would do that for him. But, we grew very close to him and his wife over the last 5 years and I still talk with him regularly. Also, Invictus I know plenty of people who wouldn't be there for their parents like I would for this couple. So relationships like that aren't just based on blood relations.

Good for you then. It's just about the best thing a person can do to be there for someone in those situations. But good people like you are the exception.

"That's exactly what it sounded like. You need kids to come visit you when you're old. "

I thought it sounded like he wanted people he loved a lot and who loved him a lot to be in his life when he was old. I think that's what most people who have experience existence as a human would assume he meant.

I'm wicked excited to have kids. I would love to be a stay-at-home dad, no questions asked.

I won't deny that. Also having children just to have someone to take care of you when you're older is probably not the best reason to have a kid.

Exactly. Children are the people most likely to do that and be there when you need them most at the end. Not a guarantee, obviously, but a better bet than anything else.

It isn't selfish or weird to want to be around people who love you. It's a central part of the human condition. You seem stranger and stranger with every post, Putin33.

That was in response to semck83.

"having children just to have someone to take care of you when you're older is probably not the best reason to have a kid."

Of course. In and of itself it's a horrible reason. And if all you need is someone to make sure you don't burn the house down a nurse is way less expensive than raising a child for (at least) 18 years.

"I think that's what most people who have experience existence as a human would assume he meant."

Nope, that's your hermaneutical midrashing as usual. Clearly Celticfox had the same reading I did.

But what really made me laugh was the thought that you think you're human. You. A Social Darwinist who thinks the vast majority of humanity should eat dirt while the rich swim in money. LOL.

I have to say, though. Animosity towards people who have children seems quite odd. You do realize that's why you're here, right? I mean, humans evolved for millions of years pretty much to have kids and then die. If you don't want kids, that doesn't bother me one bit. Just not sure where the hostility comes from.

"But what really made me laugh was the thought that you think you're human. You. A Social Darwinist who thinks the vast majority of humanity should eat dirt while the rich swim in money. LOL. "

I've never said any of that, needless to say, but don't let me get in the way of your fiction.

"It isn't selfish or weird to want to be around people who love you. "

You didn't say love. You said take care of and visit you.

"But what really made me laugh was the thought that you think you're human."

Please tell us, Putin, what is Invictus if not human?