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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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NigeeBaby (100 D(G))
04 Aug 13 UTC
Yankee Gays waste good vodka ..... how queer is that?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23527338

There's nowt as queer as gays
3 replies
Open
SYnapse (0 DX)
04 Aug 13 UTC
WWII variant testing
Can anyone join?
http://lab.vdiplomacy.com/board.php?gameID=115
0 replies
Open
tendmote (100 D(B))
04 Aug 13 UTC
German EOG for "Fun Palace Party"
Read on for German EOG in "Fun Palace Party" game
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=124139 gameID=124139
2 replies
Open
steephie22 (182 D(S))
03 Aug 13 UTC
Who's calling?
I know it sounds like a joke but I'm asking for a serious reason. Who's calling? That's all.
19 replies
Open
krellin (80 DX)
02 Aug 13 UTC
(+5)
Rangel: "White Crackers"
http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/charlie-rangel-tea-party-is-same-group-of

I am *IMMEDIATELY* calling for all good Liberals here that are concerned about the use of hurtful and derogatory racial language to contact Charlie Rangel office and *demand* his resignation
65 replies
Open
SYnapse (0 DX)
02 Aug 13 UTC
Evolution is not selfish
Something I've been saying for years; nature rewards the co-operative. Not co-operative in that "I want to get laid and the best way to do that is by being co-operative", but proper altruistic natural instincts.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-23529849
79 replies
Open
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
02 Aug 13 UTC
Hey ghug
Like the Red Sox now?
24 replies
Open
jeesh (1217 D)
03 Aug 13 UTC
Hypothetical Scenario
ABC vs. XY
If A support holds B, B support moves C to X, C goes to X
Y hits B, does X get displaced?
9 replies
Open
matdelong (100 D)
03 Aug 13 UTC
This user needs to be banned
UID: 52123 Name: Happy Chimp
17 replies
Open
shigzeo (1080 D)
03 Aug 13 UTC
GoGo-3 Game - obviously no draw
http://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=118966
Most of us have wanted to draw since before Pacific Russia started winning. Argentina put up their vote for draw when they were still larger or about the same as P.R. I'm on holiday soon. Please draw, or i just throw the game.
2 replies
Open
Yellowjacket (835 D(B))
01 Aug 13 UTC
A short story
A true story. a bit long, but I hope you'll find it as entertaining as I do.
20 replies
Open
Sbyvl36 (439 D)
02 Aug 13 UTC
(+1)
The Greatest of All Celebrations
Today is Calvin Coolidge Day.
12 replies
Open
ava2790 (232 D(S))
02 Aug 13 UTC
(+2)
Thucy is in a Senegalese newspaper today
http://www.lesoleil.sn/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=31191%3Arepertoire-numerique-aiddata-un-nouvel-outil-pour-une-meilleure-lisibilite-des-actions-de-developpement-&catid=157%3Aculture&Itemid=109

Most famous active webdipper
6 replies
Open
Lando Calrissian (100 D(S))
01 Aug 13 UTC
game
2 replies
Open
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
02 Aug 13 UTC
Hey, At Least Our WebDip Denizens Don't Do THIS...
http://news.yahoo.com/twitter-threats-highlight-blight-online-trolls-094629380.html

...Really, what the hell???
3 replies
Open
Tru Ninja (1016 D(S))
16 May 13 UTC
(+3)
The Official Thread for The School of War: Summer 2013 Game 1
gameID=118036
This is the official thread for professor commentary. Questions are permitted by others following the game and/or thread.
Page 1 of 19
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jmo1121109 (3812 D)
16 May 13 UTC
So just some quick notes as a professor for any students/TA's who aren't familiar with SoW.

TA's: Your job is to help the students out with any part of the game they don't understand. Talk to them about the game before it starts, figure out what they are good at, look at their previous games and point out areas they need work in. Make sure to press them to send you both sides of the press and figure out some good way to communicate.

Show your student how to interpret the press and moves from other players, but don't actually play the game for them. Point them in the right direction, but they should still make the choices. Also make sure not to post in this thread unless one of us professors makes a comment too insane to understand ;)

Students: Your job is to tell your TA what you need help with, what you are good at. Make sure to talk with them on a regular basis. You should send them press to get another opinion on your allies, have them help read the board. Most importantly, listen to them when they tell you that you suck at something, even if you think you are doing great! These are all veteran players who know how to play the game. The goal is to make you a better player.

Make sure to read the professors comments each year and ask your TA if you don't understand something we post. Your TA should understand, and if they don't then they can post here asking for clarification. Make sure you (students) do NOT post in the forum about your game. Something I'd personally advise is that you ask your TA for some games to analyze. Ask them to link you too their best game, then go through that game by yourself and figure out why your TA made the moves they did. Run through the game as every player and figure out the best moves each person could have made, and why they didn't.

Diplomacy is a game of getting other people to do what you want. However, if you don't know what you need other people to do in order to win it doesn't matter how good you are at manipulating other people. So make sure to work with your TA to:

1) Improve your skills in reading and understanding the entire map. Basically figuring out what moves you want to happen, and why.

2) Getting people to makes the moves you need in order to win.

One final note, if your TA fails to reply to you for more then a day or so let Tru Ninja know right away and we'll find you a replacement TA till we can figure out what happened to your original TA. Good luck everyone!
Tru Ninja (1016 D(S))
16 May 13 UTC
I suppose my opening comments are in order.

When I post commentary,I will organize it in a specific format. I will list the year and season of the commentary. I will also separate commentary in terms of the west and then the east. In each sphere, I will list the comments country-by-country starting with the top power and moving to the weakest power in that sphere. After several countries are eliminated and spheres are less rigid, I will no longer separate the countries by sphere but will list the countries in descending power order.

It should be noted that the strength of a power is determined by center count, strength of their position and growth potential. Essentially, I examine the countries and ask myself: if all 7 countries went into CD and I could pick to play one of them, which one would I want to opt to take over.

I will comment on each spring and fall phase and retreats if something unusual happens. I will also predict builds do each country in the fall phase but won't detail my thoughts. I will also comment on builds if they turn out to be something I did not expect. My comments will refer only to the phase that just completed and talk about what went good and bad. I will post explanations so long as they don't strongly influence the coming seasons.


In terms of the game, I wish everyone well. Pay close attention to your TAs, they're very successful players and I strongly believe they will give you good advice. Keep in mind that their goal is to give you a measure of new things to add to your play repitoire but also know that everyone has good and bad games. For one winner, there have to be 6 losers. In addition, when a draw occurs, not everyone participates in the end game. Essentially what I'm getting at is that even the best play style doesn't win or draw every game. If this is one of those games for you, don't discard the advice, but work to perfect it. Keep analyzing your play and trying to put into practice the things you learn. Only discard the advice that routinely doesn't work for you. It may take a half dozen games before you can fluidly use new techniques or a different outlook on the game.

Work hard to avoid NMRs, be courteous to the other players, especially if a pause is needed. Give advance warning of any needs and please follow through with your commitment to this game. A lot of people have invested a lot of time into a game meant to help you all.

Ultimately, I hope that everyone has fun and takes something positive away from it. After the game, there will be a thread for EOGs, game discussion, Q&A for everyone in case players or others want more details on either the commentary or questions for their TA or even another TA.
I would ask that all players and participants take time to post their thoughts even if they are eliminated in 03 and the game goes to 1925. Your thoughts are greatly appreciated by everyone.
jmo1121109 (3812 D)
17 May 13 UTC
My posts will be different then Tru Ninja's. I will post my thoughts on each country, but I'm also going to focus on problems I see during a specific phase or random other things that come to mind.

One of the most important things you can do in the opening phase is TALK TO EVERYONE!

Everyone should have sent messages to every other country by now. Wish them good luck, get a feel for their press style, and if they are your neighbor, start getting a feel for how they are planning their opening moves.

Keep an open mind from the start. The press you send in this opening turn is how you're going to be building alliances. Talk to your TA about the press you are getting, if someone hasn't messaged you yet then MESSAGE THEM!

I cannot stress how important this is, this is a game of diplomacy, so make sure to talk to everyone!

Maybe one of the other professors would be willing to share how they structure an opening message to another player?
ghug (5068 D(B))
17 May 13 UTC
Howdy guys. I'm going to stick to Tru's format for posting for the most part, because that was how he did it when I did the SoW and I liked it. That said, I'll probably also spew out thoughts that don't fit with any single country at one time or another because I'm not a very organized person.

As for some opening advice, the other two profs have been pretty forthcoming, but I'll add a few things as well.

First, TALK TO EVERYONE! jmo only said that about four times, so it needs to be said again. Good communication is absolutely essential, especially so early in the game. I can't count the number of times I've been Turkey or Austria and gotten critical information about one of my neighbors from France or England. That's the kind of thing that can make all of the difference in the early game, and it can be important for forging alliances in the mid and late games when people start moving outside of their spheres and everyone gets involved in everyone else's business.

Second, talk to your TAs a bunch, but don't expect them to do everything for you. Your TA obviously has a lot more experience than you, and chances are he's a bit better than you, but the point of this game is to learn, so you should always question your TA's advice, offer ideas of your own, and use him more as someone to bounce ideas off of than someone to play your game using you as a proxy.

Third, remember that everyone is trying to do exactly the same thing as you are. This may seem silly and overly obvious, but I know that when I was newer to the game, I would often have no idea what the other players were thinking because I would never bother to put myself in their shoes. The other players come into the game in exactly the same position as you: looking for allies to help weather the early game and trying to use people to make their own positions better. Figure out what you want and make it very clear to other people why it benefits them, and you'll do well.

Fourth, always have a plan. This is not to say that you shouldn't be open-minded, especially early, but planning ahead and knowing where you want to be is the difference between winning and drawing. Keep that in mind as you advance through the game and get advice from TAs on where the most important areas for expansion are.

Fifth, good luck everyone!
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
17 May 13 UTC
And sixth, bump the thread ;)
steephie22 (182 D(S))
17 May 13 UTC
Well, bump then.
uclabb (589 D)
17 May 13 UTC
threadID=672851
threadID=738795
threadID=739795
threadID=884531
threadID=940795
threadID=501033
threadID=474841

Those are the past SoW game threads that I know of. If you want to get better, there really is a LOT of good information in there, and you can work your way through a whole game with commentary, which is really helpful. Whether I am involved or not, I always follow the SoW threads because there is a lot to be learned by everyone, not just beginners, from others.
2ndWhiteLine (2601 D(B))
17 May 13 UTC
My first observation as a professor is to mention that four professors are two too many. That being said, I'll add what I can in terms of respective strengths and weaknesses, what I like and dislike, and pick out specific moves that I love and those that I hate.

1901 is usually an awkward year. You don't know who to trust and your goals are hazy at best. Conducting diplomacy is awkward and you might find yourself thinking that there isn't that much to talk about. False. There is always something to discuss. E/F/G have the Belgium question to resolve. R/T have to decide what to do with the Black Sea. G/F have to settle Burgundy. R/G have to settle Sweden. A/R need to decide what to do with Galicia. Italy needs to not die. Each country has its strengths and weaknesses and 1901 is the time to think about what is inherently strong about your starting position and how you can use that to leverage your position with your neighbors.

Being that I'm primarily a gunboater, I always keep the scope of my game in mind. This is no less important in full press. The scope of your game is related to both your short term and long term goals as well as your relationship with your allies. Always consider your current situation, the position of your allies and enemies, potential stabs, the cost/benefit of stabs, and how a stab or attack fits into your overall plan. Know where a possible stalemate could happen, have a plan to hold whatever you take, and have a purpose for taking each center. For example, Italy can possibly get three builds in F1901 by taking Marseilles, Trieste, and Tunis. But making two enemies on either side of you spreads your units too thin, compromises the security of your home centers, and negates any diplomatic efforts you may have made up to that point.

The good thing is that you'll learn, regardless of how you perform in this game. Have fun, ask questions of your TA, read the commentaries (even ghug's), and talk to everyone.
2ndWhiteLine (2601 D(B))
17 May 13 UTC
Also, don't NMR. If you have to, enter a set of backup orders and save them once the phase starts. These can always be changed, but it's better to have something saved just in case you lose internet access or die.
steephie22 (182 D(S))
17 May 13 UTC
Or die? I think you'll NMR then anyway... (Bump.)
Jasbrum (100 D)
17 May 13 UTC
(+1)
Not die! :(
Tru Ninja (1016 D(S))
18 May 13 UTC
I'm looking forward to 4 profs. Sure, there will be a lot of echoed posts, but the ability to see another point of view and talk shop about the differences is great. It's like having a panel of judges who debate the best courses of action. That's where the variety of flavor comes in. I remember debating issues with my co-prof in the past and felt like a lot of good came from the players really seeing the depth and breadth of possibilities that each have their own merit discussed in detail.
Jasbrum (100 D)
18 May 13 UTC
I've been reading through some of those previous SoW threads, geez it can get a bit heated! :O
Jasbrum (100 D)
18 May 13 UTC
Disclaimer - If I assume a "character" in the game please don't be offended, manipulation is purely for game purposes and not personal!
steephie22 (182 D(S))
18 May 13 UTC
We're not supposed to talk about the game here as student, Jasbrum. If I were you, I'd play that kind of message in global...
Jasbrum (100 D)
18 May 13 UTC
Taken, sorry
2ndWhiteLine (2601 D(B))
18 May 13 UTC
(+1)
I'm picturing the four professors arguing like a bad ESPN show.
steephie22 (182 D(S))
18 May 13 UTC
Jasbrum, no problem, I don't have an issue with it, it's just the rules and I figured I'd warn you before you get yourself into trouble.
steephie22 (182 D(S))
18 May 13 UTC
Fall just started. Just so everyone knows.
cardcollector (1270 D)
18 May 13 UTC
I like the start, standard openings.
2ndWhiteLine (2601 D(B))
18 May 13 UTC
(+2)
Spring 1901

What I like:

- Turkey F Ank - BLA. I don't know if this was the result of a miscommunication or good diplomacy by Turkey, but nice job taking the Black Sea. This is traditionally one of the more contentious moves in S1901, with the typical course of action being a bounce. When either R or T controls the Black Sea in 1901, it gives them to exert a tremendous amount of influence on the development of events in the southeast corner.

England A Liv - Edi. Taking NWG and NTH is the most popular opening for England, normally coupled with A Liv - Yor. I'm a fan of the Edi move simply because it gives England so many more options for the fall turn. While it does potentially expose your southern flank to a French convoy, good diplomacy can avert this danger and potentially give England two builds.

Austria F Tri - Ven. If Austria is nervous of Italian treachery (as he clearly was), then this move is a safe option to neutralize any Italian attack on 1901. Unfortunately, it costs Austria a build, but it gives the two countries a chance to reconcile.

What I don't like:

Italy A Ven-Tri, A Rom-Apu. Again, I don't know if this was a mutual decision or not, but I've got two points of contention regarding this opening. First, it weakens Austria and limits him to one build. This, combined with a potentially powerful Turkey, is bad news for Italy. Second, the move to Apulia is similarly confusing. If Italy intended to take Trieste, the move to Apu gives him no means of supporting his acquisition.

France A Par - Pic. As a gunboater, I'm always aware of how my moves declare my intentions to the rest of the board. Burgundy is a very valuable space and allows France to exert influence over the German A Mun. Moving to Pic cedes the advantage in Belgium to Germany and gives you no leverage in the fall.

Russia F Sev h. Again, see my Turkey analysis above.
Tru Ninja (1016 D(S))
18 May 13 UTC
Spring 1901

Well, the first full season has finally completed and we professors are seeing the first fruits of diplomacy. This is the first season that a player has the ability to begin to get a feel for who is lying and who is telling the truth. Did your "ally" move as he promised? Was there a definite surprise? As a professor, we examine these moves and look at things and attempt to piece together the negotiations that likely took place. Needless to say, there are many such pieces that are pretty evident. Many promises were fulfilled, but I believe that some definitely weren't. By and large, the first full year is the most critical to the game. The first year's builds are by far the single most important determiner on how well a country will do throughout the game. In addition to that, no single other aspect of the game determines the outcome of F01 like S01. How a country moves in the Spring will determine its limitations in the Fall. As such, each country should take great care in setting the stage for the years to come. When I play, I log on to the site 3-times more frequently in the first year (or two) than any other year in the game. I constantly check messages, update orders, reply to comments, analyze the map (in the fall), build relationships, and attempt to unravel the mystery set before me concerning who is genuine and who is not. When I put this amount of energy into the first few years, it's rare that I am the odd-man out in the battle for an ally. I want S01 and F01 to go as picture-perfect as I can because it goes a long way to ensuring how well I do in the successive years.

The West
==============================================================
The West saw a slew of vanilla openings and nothing is directly telling about any single set. From the appearance, it seems as if everyone is playing nice, has kept their promises and is waiting for the Fall or even S02 to break anything out. Generally I disdain this set of openings because countries can ill-afford to take a non-committal stand for an entire year before attacking. The ultimate goal for any sphere (east or west) is to reduce the number of contenders by 1 and then determine whether to assault your partner, or keep your old ally and move into the other sphere. Time is of the essence. It's not something given, it's something earned. Now, this does not mean that such openings have no place for an entire sphere. After all, the best laid traps are done under the guise of neutrality and friendship. In addition to this, there are an entire spectrum of possibilities that begin much like we're seeing here. Each player should have the ability to determine which course of action is the best because each game comes with its own unique set of circumstances and settings that each player must learn to recognize and control

France--While no country is definitely out in front, France has my top spot pick simply because of the neutrality of the other openings. Each western country moved in such a way as to remain as neutral as possible. There's no fleet in the Channel, no army in Burgundy, no army in Piedmont, and no threatening Russian. When this occurs, it most frequently plays in French favor. France, as it's nature has it, is very resistant to attacks and the only way to really bring the country down in the early game is to have a 3-way gang-up with E/G/I all moving inward. Traditionally, France has an easy two builds with the distinct possibility of 3. While I don't suspect that we will see a 3-build France, even having two and another season at securing a solid ally is really a great asset for this country. I like all the moves and have no complaint whatsoever on the opening. Each country kept its promise and it won't likely be until the Fall, or more realistically, S02 before we really see any surprising combat from the Western nations.

Germany--Once again, no Western nation is truly on top, but I like the setup Germany has. We aren't seeing a hostile Russian, and there's no clear E/F. In addition, France isn't in Burgundy and it's clear that Belgium is a point of discussion. With 2 solid builds and no clear enemies, this is really a good spot for Germany to be in. Now, it should be noted that this can be a false comfortability because Germany isn't as easily defended being a central country the same way France is, but the situation is far from tragic. Barring 3 builds, this is a really promising situation to be in. I like the agreed neutrality between F and G. This map setup has some potentially strong results and only the Fall will really tell anything. My pick is that Belgium goes either to England or Germany. Moves-wise, I liked everything I saw. I think that the Denmark Blitzkrieg is the best opening available to Germany, and anytime he can open in that fashion, he has more control over the map than any Danish Blitzkrieg where we see F Kie-Hol. He has the optional bounce of the Russian fleet, he can move to the North Sea in the event of a Sea Lion (not seen here), and it sets the fleet up for more options overall for the Fall than any other opening. Good moves.

England--I have you in last place only by technicality. I like your opening just as much as the other countries. The only thing that really places you in third place is the potential for a maximum of 2 builds as opposed to 3. The best things you have going for you is that you don't have a French fleet in the ENG, you've guaranteed Nwy, and there was no Russian move to StP. By far, my biggest concern in S01 moves is whether or not Russia orders A Mos-StP. When this occurs, it really spells potential disaster because there's one more country that is staking a claim over territory that England wants to control for himself. Statistically, the Northern Opening has a slight edge over the Southern Opening due to the potential failure of the F Lon-ENG move when a bounce occurs, but the fact that you have two fleets in the water and an army in convoy position gives you a good leg up. Having your minimum 1 build will pay dividends toward getting you toward the mid-game. I won't make any verbal predictions over the potential outcomes for the Fall moves, but as I posted in the German commentary, I believe that Bel will go to either you or the German. It's possible that no one gets it, but I don't see that here. The last thing I'll say is that I like the Edi opening for your army. Sometimes people open to Yor for the defensive nature of the move as it protects Lon, but I ultimately believe that if you have to dedicate your lone army to protection of your Island in S01, you're really in trouble and have a lot more to worry about than where you're getting your build from. I'll wait to say more after the Fall moves come through in a few days because that will determine how much I praise your opening. As it stands, it's safe, it's promising and holds potential to garner more.


The East
===============================================================
The East saw far more turmoil and failed moves than the West. This will translate into what could be some very shattered alliances and struggling countries. Some countries have a clear leg up while others will have a very difficult road ahead of them. The events in the East have a major impact on how things go for the West, and vice-versa. The point at which conflict starts within a sphere often dictates the amount of time the other sphere has in reducing its numbers by 1. Most often, the East sees this type of conflict before the West, and this is certainly true here.

Turkey--Turkey has the best setup by a sizable margin. This begins with the move to the BLA. Far more often than not, when one country is sitting in the BLA, it means that one country deceived another with promises of a DMZ. While I can't guarantee that is what we're seeing here, it's certainly an indicator. More frequently when Turkey sneaks into the BLA, there will be a Turkish army in Arm. The fact that we aren't seeing this here could indicate something else, but it certainly adds tension to the situation. The second set of things that really help Turkey's strength here lie in the series of bounces performed by Austria. The bounce in Gal means that Russia will be slower to move south, and coupled with the 'bounce' in Tri mean that Austria has far less claim over the Balkans. This plays out very strongly for any Turkish player and the possibility of 2 builds is definitely stronger. My guess is that Turkey will be the guy to strike an ally with in this match. Now, I will say that I think much of his favor came from circumstance rather than great diplomacy, but circumstance still helps win games.

Italy--While some don't really like the Lepanto, I tend to favor it in situations where you're not really sure who you can trust. As a general rule, it's slower than other openings including the Obriani (anti-Austrian opening), but it affords more in the way of defense isn't as telling as any type of committal move. If any country has time on its side, it's definitely Italy. If it goes through 1901 and only picks up Tun, it's ok. It hasn't lost anything, and most frequently Italy doesn't even have an enemy until 1902 or later. Now, the one issue I have is the whole thing around Tri/Ven. I'm not entirely sure what happened here, but either way it's ugly. It means one of two things occurred, and I'll try to err on the side of accident. I'm going to assume that you intended to attack Austria and he intended to attack you and neither panned out. (I highly doubt this, though. I'm sure the moves were mutual). It's ludicrous to think you can move on Austria with a lone unit and really expect to get anywhere. The army move by itself produces nothing. Now, if we assume (more accurately) that the move was mutual, I think that the both of you are spending way too much effort trying to force trust than to simply let it play out. If you've got nothing to do with the army, and you want an Austrian ally, your best bet is to promise him that you aren't moving to Tri so that he can pick up Gre (or better yet, support you in). In addition, you could put the army to use by moving to Pie. This puts France on edge and could allow for E/G to move on him. While the move to Pie is not the first option I go with, it's something to consider, especially if you're trying to keep France out of your back side for as long as possible and you really want an Austrian ally. As such, you certainly have a lot going for you, and 1 build should be guaranteed, although where it comes from will remain to be seen.

Russia--Ouch, Turkey made the jump to the BLA. I'm sure by now, you're seeing the outcome and seething. You're either angry at Turkey for making the duplicitous move, or you're angry at yourself for agreeing to bounce and forgetting to issue the order. Either way, it hurts. Now, the bounce in Gal is better for you, although like I'll tell Austria, it tends to waste more time than anything. Russia is a beast of a country and of all the countries, it needs to come out of the gate fighting--not bouncing. If you were going to do precious little with 50% of your units, it would have been better for you to simply tell the paranoid Austrian that you won't go to Gal, and instead order War-Ukr and send Moscow north. Either that, or issue Sev-Rum and Mos south. At this stage, 2 builds is potentially out of the question, and depending on how sour things go, you may not get any. You really have to spend time making the most out of the 4 units you have, and that means making tangible moves. Now, the BLA is unfortunate, because even I have made the promise as Russia to not go to the BLA, but I always couple it with an inquiry into the Turkish player's game history (if available) to see if he has successfully DMZ'd the BLA in the past. If he has not, then the odds that he will do so in this game are incredibly thin. While the BLA is unfortunate, I'd have still done SOMETHING with the fleet. Move it to Ank to ensure that a Turkish army isn't moving there or move it to Rum to start your build-gaining. Either way, you're holding true to your end of the BLA DMZ and doing something else to ensure that you come away with something positive in the event that Turkey does indeed move there himself. I don't think the Fall will be a total disaster and I still think you have a lot of good prospects that will follow. Good luck.

Austria--This was certainly not the season I had anticipated for you. As a general rule, I try to avoid unnecessary bounces early on. When you've got only 3 units and you're using 2 of them to bounce, you're essentially wasting 67% of your available units on doing nothing. The way I typically view things is that Austria has a rough time getting to 1904 already, so I really need to put trust on the table and work for my 2 builds. If Russia lies about Gal and goes there, I still have a season to talk him out of an attack and can plan to still move in such a way as to guarantee me two. If he doesn't relent and still attacks, then hanging out in Tri and Vie wasn't going to stop the inevitable. The best thing you can do is to ensure that you get your 2 builds and hope for the best. Now, 1 bounce I can handle. The fact that you have 2 really hurts. You currently have little to no claim on Gre, a strong Turk, and a Russian that's still in War and could request a bounce in Gal for a second straight season. If Italy builds an army and marches north and Russia supports himself into Gal this coming season, there's nothing you can really do. In your case, you really have to simply let your diplomacy lead the way. Now, that doesn't mean that everything is negative. You certainly have a lot of pull over who gets what in the Balkans, and this sort of option could really pan out for something positive. In the end, a strong, committed ally is far better than an extra center, and if giving up Gre or Rum to a player ensures that you have an ally in 1902, then in the end, it was a success. Let's see how F01 ends before we cast any real gloom on the situation.
ghug (5068 D(B))
18 May 13 UTC
Interesting Spring, guys.

THE WEST:
1 and 2 TIE: GERMANY AND FRANCE
You each have two centers basically secure and an equal shot at the third. Neither of you has made an enemy of anyone just yet, and you're on equal footing as to your diplomatic options right now. 2WL points out that France could have gone with a move to Burgundy, but I think that's generally far more acceptable in gunboat than it is in real diplomacy, so I see no problem with the move to Picardy.

3. ENGLAND
There's really not much difference between you and the other two either. You have the same shot at Belgium as the other two, a guaranteed Norway, and no enemies to speak of. In addition, England's defensive position means you only really need one build in the first year anyway, while the others more often need two, so their higher SC potential is good too. I don't however, like the army in Edi, as it both opens you up to a Sealion and adds a slight risk that wherever you try to convoy it will fail and you'll end up unable to build there.

THE EAST:
1. TURKEY
This one's a no-brainer. You took BLA, which is *huge* early in the game and puts Russia at a severe disadvantage. In addition, Austria's choice not to bring the fleet into the Balkans means you have a much stronger standing there is well.

2. ITALY
This is more by virtue of everyone else being worse off than anything else. I really dislike the bounce with Austria there, as it automatically weakens him and gives Russia and Turkey better positions right off the bat. It doesn't hurt you directly though, as you can still take Tunis with the army or the fleet, so you take 2nd in the East.

3. Austria
I really dislike that opening. I understand its value in gunboat, but in full press you really need to be able to negate the possibility of an Italian attack with your diplomacy alone and get yourself into the Balkans early. The bounce with Russia in Galicia is nice, but your position otherwise looks very weak.

4. Russia
Why are you holding Sev? BLA is one of the most important positions on the board, and you've given it up in 01. On top of that, you haven't even gained anything to replace it like a more defensible Rumania or a shot at Turkey through Armenia. I seriously hope that that was a misorder and you'll be able to get yourself back on track.
2ndWhiteLine (2601 D(B))
18 May 13 UTC
Clearly there was some mistrust between Italy and Austria. A completely self-defeating bounce of that order would be terrible planning and I like to think our players would be smart enough to overcome any mistrust around Ven and Tri. An Austria that only gets one build is in a tight spot.
steephie22 (182 D(S))
18 May 13 UTC
Bumping for jmo's post especially. Out of curiosity: will the professors be discussing what they disagree upon or will they all just say what their thing and wait for the next phase? I'm fine with it either way, just curious.
2ndWhiteLine (2601 D(B))
18 May 13 UTC
I'd like to but I don't want to influence the game at all.
Tru Ninja (1016 D(S))
18 May 13 UTC
I will post some disagreements and echoes when I get a break from work tonight
Tru Ninja (1016 D(S))
19 May 13 UTC
@ghug: I tend I prefer he Yor move over the Edi myself because in he event of an assault, the army can cover all home centers. However, Edi isn't inherently a bad thing. The benefit of it is that if England does get attacked, he can still convoy the army to Nwy for a build while using NTH to cover London because it's necessary I convoy the army to really have a chance in this game. Plus, it's usually pretty easy to get a feel for your neighbors for third party sources to determine if they are favorable.

I do agree with the Pic move. As a general rule , you should be telling people the truth in 1901, and having to explain your way out of a move to Bur is not an easy thing I do with an angry German.

I also don't have an issue with the Apu move by Italy. The moves by A and I were clearly planned (although a bit silly). Now, if they weren't planned, the Apu move was a poor one to make. If you're gunning for Austria, you really need to back up a Ven move with a Rom army to Ven in order to keep your new center.

Now I will say that it doesn't really hurt Italy if there's a RIT I the map (which I doubt), but I do strongly agree that the bounce was more harmful than worthless. I 1901, you really need to trust your neighbors. I play as if very one is honest I 01 until I have strong suspicion to believe otherwise from an outside source. The issue is that if you start playing defense in S01, you pretty much have already lost.
Tru Ninja (1016 D(S))
19 May 13 UTC
I do have a question for Ghug: I have Austria last because of the minimal number of units actually producing tangible results and the idea that Gal hurt Austria more than it did Russia. What points do you feel put Austria ahead of Russia?

For 2WL: I like the Pic move. When I use it, I will frequently consider A Mar as a hold in the spring to check for a German invasion. I also prefer to leave Bur open if Germany wants it because its a fairly safe move that let's me trust Germany's truth. If he moves there, then I know he's a danger. If he doesn't, then I likely have bought myself an ally. If he does, I can easily consider covering Par with no real sweat and still link up for 2 builds: A Par or A Mar being one of them. This allows me to force Germany out of Bel in the following season. I always feel that I should give others the opportunity to prove their trustworthiness. I can't spend my game always playing defensive, because winning against tough opposition means I need to be aggressive. In Full-Press Diplomacy, what is the biggest set back to leaving Bur open if you and Germany have discussed your options? If you decide to move to Pic instead, what should you also do to prepare for a potential German power that opens to Bur and Hol with the fleet in S01?
ghug (5068 D(B))
19 May 13 UTC
I think that giving Turkey BLA is a slightly bigger deal than bouncing Italy in Venice. They're realistically not going to be doing much else with the units they used to bounce in Gal anyway because of the bottlenecks both of them face getting to supply centers in '01 and an initial reluctance to blindly trust each other. Austria loses himself Greece with his moves, but Russia's put him at a permanent disadvantage against Turkey that's going to be much harder to rectify.

RE: Pic, I totally agree with Tru.

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569 replies
Tusky McMammoth (3321 D)
01 Aug 13 UTC
I'm back, anyone want a game?
I'm thinking 24 hours per phase, anonymous players WTA with a pretty big pot and some good players. Any of those options but the last are negotiable, let me know if you're interested!
4 replies
Open
ccga4 (1831 D(B))
01 Aug 13 UTC
Need a sitter for one game by tomorrow!
I will be camping for 2 weeks, leaving tomorrow, and need a sitter for one game, a world wide gunboat. I am in an extremely good spot, and it would be a shame to waste it. Please help me out
1 reply
Open
krellin (80 DX)
01 Aug 13 UTC
(+1)
Democrat War on Women
I said it first...now here it is in print...(Ahhhh...sweet vindication....)

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/aug/1/so-which-party-is-waging-a-war-on-women/
52 replies
Open
Chaqa (3971 D(B))
01 Aug 13 UTC
Gunboat Invitational Redux
For those who were in the first:
gameID=124017
Same password
0 replies
Open
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
01 Aug 13 UTC
A Letter to Florida
Dear Florida,

I'd like to thank all of you. Here's why: http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/08/01/3535902/amid-grading-controversy-florida.html
5 replies
Open
dirge (768 D(B))
01 Aug 13 UTC
Snowden has a new butt buddy named Putin
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/08/01/nsa-edward-snowden-russia-temporary-asylum/2607737/

This is what Putin planned all along. Putin, 10 pts. Snowden 0 pts.
Putin is definitely the "top" in this relationship.
16 replies
Open
semck83 (229 D(B))
01 Aug 13 UTC
NSA Internet Surveilance
According to these documents, the NSA has access to virtually all http activities of all Americans. Discuss

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/31/nsa-top-secret-program-online-data
9 replies
Open
Tolstoy (1962 D)
26 Jul 13 UTC
(+3)
The Banksters Own the World
http://www.lewrockwell.com/2013/07/chris-martenson/banksters-own-the-world%E2%80%A8/
"Those not in the top 1% are finding themselves as modern-day feudal subjects – bound by debt or lack of property – to a global corporatocracy"
160 replies
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Maniac (184 D(B))
01 Aug 13 UTC
Pretty Pattern
I dabble in the stock market (just a £1 or two on the spread betting sites, I can handle it, I'm not addicted, lay off me Jezzz some people) anyway I was setting my stop/limits and decided to do this based on the Golden Ratio - see more inside....(I hope the suspense won't kill anyone)
10 replies
Open
Frank (100 D)
31 Jul 13 UTC
book recommendations
i am looking for some good non-fiction books to read. things i am interested in - America, sports, politics, modern history, finance. things i am not interested in - any pop science or social science, military history, ancient history. Thanks guys!
13 replies
Open
murraysheroes (526 D(B))
30 Jul 13 UTC
One spot left in good PW-ed game
gameID=123838

Anon, PPSC, full-press, 3 day phases, 110 point buy-in. Be ready, some of this sites heavy-hitters are on board...
8 replies
Open
jmo1121109 (3812 D)
31 Jul 13 UTC
Sitter needed
A well known player needs a sitter for 20 games including most of the New Variant Gunboat Series. They had a family member pass, please consider helping out with even 1 game if you can. Post inside if interested.
4 replies
Open
Jkeil (0 DX)
01 Aug 13 UTC
Editing Games
Is there any way to edit a game once it is in pre-game?
1 reply
Open
Gen. Lee (7588 D(B))
31 Jul 13 UTC
(+1)
Al Swearengen, can you give us an EOG? Epic game.
10 replies
Open
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