Apparently I don't understand government math where "cuts in spending" mean "increased debt". (OK...I *do* understand how they come up with their bullshti number -- baseline budget -- but are YOU stupid enough to but in to the lie????)

There won't be higher taxes because the Republicans will never nominate people to the super committee who would support raising taxes. Obama is saying this so that his liberal base doesn't get even MORE disgusted with him.

You can't cut the only meaningful source of spending, which is Social Security and Medicare, without restructuring the programs. As things stand now we could dissolve the entire federal government and only send out those check and we would still have a deficit. A top to bottom reform of entitlements will take time and can only realistically happen in the next Congress, whoever wins. This deal is to keep up afloat and honest until things can really happen in late winter 2013.

Looks like it's another -1 for reasoned arguments and another +10 for crazy ranting.

Sargmacher,

+1 for being right and -10 for actually posting here. ; )

Its easy to not care what side of the issue you are on when both sides fail. Dems want higher taxes Reps want to cut spending. Both sides refuse to budge when the answer is to raise taxes and cut spending. You can be upset with the president or you can just be upset with government.

Haha

@Invictus....but you are wrong. According to the framework that moronic Republi-puikes agreed to, if the "Super Commitee" can not come up with agreeable recommendations, then "revenue increases" will be automatic.

Not to mention, the extension of the Bush tax "cuts" will be scored by the SBO as a tax increase, which then needs to be replaced with either further cuts or tax increases.

Of course, we know via the Reagan years that lower taxes produce higher federal Revenues....so the whole ideology is insane.

Bottom line is, the Republi-pukes caved and need to be voted out of office, starting with the dickhead Boehner.

In addition to those automatic increases are automatic (and indiscriminate) cuts to entitlements. Democrats will never allow that and a compromise will be reached.

OK krellin. Vote out the Republicans. Then you'll have a repeat of the 111th Congress. Boehner did a great job, eventually. This whole fight was extremely irresponsible and could yet harm America's credit rating, but the only leader on either side who was behaving in a decent way at least part of the time was the Speaker. This crisis can only really begin to be solved after the 2012 election. Even if Obama is reelected I think we'll still get some kind of the entitlement reform this country needs to survive. That's an achievement in itself and you shouldn't be so short-sighted.

I want to vote out the Republicans...for sure! I want to replace Republi-pukes with ***CONSERVATIVES***....

You are right....they did this whole fucked up deal that only....let's phrase it properly...reduces the rate of increase of Federal spending, but most certainly DOES increase spending and DOES increas the debt by $7+ Trillion over the next 10 years. So there is NO DOUBT that America's credit rating SHOULD be reduced. Hell, by some measures, we are worse than Greece!

As far as Obama beign re-elected in 2012....and hoping for reform....OMG...what sort of a dumbass are you? I would *seriously* like you to send me some of that fine, stinky green weed....SERIOUSLY!

If you don't think John Boehner is a conservative then you're a fool.

It comes down to this krellin. Do you want the kind of reform that can save our country and the world from the coming economic calamity to actually happen or do you want to vote for a bunch of Christine O'Donnells and feel good about yourself?

Economic calamity?? Ahhhh ha ha ha! EVERY time these fools want to pass some bullshit legislation they scream and cry that the global economy will fail if the pretentious US government doesn't pass X legislation today! You STILL get suckered in by that?

Time for you to actually read and understand things. First and foremost, the US would **NOT** have "defaulted" if this deal had not passed...they collect enough money to pay their *obligations*. There would have been a partial-government shutdown....NO BIG DEAL....it has happened MANY time in the past. But apparantly you were too ignorant or too stupid to understand the truth of what was happening, and you bought into the media hype. I pity you. If you believe that crap, then you are too ignorant to have a legitimate discussion with, becuase I don't want to discuss media hype...I want to discuss REALITY.

i.e. Boehner caved in like a bitch because apparently people like you support him in being an irresponsible fool.

The REAL question is....do YOU, *personally*, increase you own household buidget by 8-10% per year even if you don't get a raise? Do YOU spend like a fool when you have no money?

I love the economists who say we can't cut our way out of this situation. Every American who has had debt AND has gotten out of it has either cut their way out or found more income. For those who didn't do either of those, bankruptcy court let them restructure their debt. Hmmmm. Why is this such a hard concept?

So... you don't think not reforming entitlements will lead to an economic calamity? That's what I was talking about.

Perception is just as important as reality, krellin. If the deal had not passed (since I guess that's what you want to talk about...) then there would definitely have been a downgrade. That means higher interest rates on everything. It means total chaos since virtually all business contracts assume the United States has a AAA credit rating. It also means the dollar would definitely be abandoned as the world reserve currency in the same sort of way that the pound withered in the last third of the 20th century. It would also be likely to spread total panic to Europe, where investors would suddenly find that there's no safe harbor for their money, what with the Euro's crisis, Japan's malaise, etc. It would have been a much bigger thing besides just shutting down the US government. It could have been as bad as fall 2008. And who can predict the moves China makes in that scenario? Maybe China bails out Europe. That changes the world a lot. Maybe China sees this as the final confirmation that they can invade Taiwan in six months and America will do nothing to stop them.

I'm broadly sympathetic to you krellin, but that last post demonstrates jsut the kind of irresponsibility we don't need.

"The REAL question is....do YOU, *personally*, increase you own household buidget by 8-10% per year even if you don't get a raise? Do YOU spend like a fool when you have no money?"

No, but I'm not a state. This is a big problem and needs to be solved. Not fake-solved with moving numbers around but actually solved. Keep in mind the Ryan Plan takes years to balance the budget and even begin to think about paying down the debt. The answer is in sober plans like that, not in mad rushes to slash indiscriminately.

Reforming entitlement is KEY to our future. And...uh....duhhhh....it DID NOT HAPPEN. So why do you want to stroke Boehner off for failing to do what you acknowledge is necessary??? (PUN INTENDED! :p )

I cant' read all your blather, because yo fail on first principles. You seem to have this idioctic idea that this "deal" will keep our AAA credit rating? WRONG! We have aready been downgraded by three agencies! And more are lining up to do so. You can "cut your budget" all you want....but when "curtting the budget" means ADDING $7+ trillion in debt...credit agencies scratch their heads and say, "THAT is unsustainable....they are going the way of Greece."

The Stock Market agrees with me. The Double-Dip recession is at the plate....and Obama is cheering his ass off, becuae it has always been his **stated** objective to destroy our economy. It is *IN* his speeches prior to being elected. Of course....all of you NBC/ABC/CBS watchers would never actually know the *full* truth of what Obama has said in the past....

It's too bad you're like this.

The yuan can be the "new" currency of the world. Investors would find China a safe Harbor, right?

krellin, you give fellow conservatives a bad name. And I know your last paragraph of your last post was pathetic trolling. With regards to the original topic, the Republicans may have compromised (what you call caving) but I agree with Invictus that it needed to be done. Sure it doesn't address the full problem but it ensures that we will keep our AAA standing with Moody's and S&D's. Plus if society thought that we would be downgraded, there could be bank panics and bank runs which would not be a good thing...

+1 The Czech haha

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-08-02/u-s-aaa-rating-faces-moody-s-downgrade-on-debt-economic-slowdown-concern.html

WARNING of security downgrades. All you suckers and chumps that think the government mad ea "deal" to save us....are fuckig morons.

The Czech pretty much has it right...

We retained our AAA status. Sure they rate our outlook as 'negative' but that really is not a big deal. It just means that several years in the future we could be downgraded, something we already knew.

I'm so glad you exist, Tom Bombadil.

I usually don't get involved in this junk that krellin posts, but I want to make sure the webdip world knows that there are normal (well maybe I'm not exactly normal...) conservatives.

Hey what happened to Tettleton's Chew and his abuse post? I was enjoying that :P

I for one hope that the non-crazy Republicans take back their party from the religious right and the Tea Party.

I might not have liked Bob Dole at the time, but I'd rather have people like him than the current crop of... special people.

@ Tom Bombadil

"I want to make sure the webdip world knows that there are normal (well maybe I'm not exactly normal...) conservatives."

That is my mission as well.

I agree with almost everything you and Invictus have said so far.

Bob Dole was a wingnut. He had the nickname of Nixon's hatchetman for a reason. There has never been a "sane" Republican Party. They've always been barking mad. I mean the so-called "sane" Republicans here think Boehner acted responsibly throughout then negotiations. This is a man who walked out on the talks and wouldn't compromise on a damn thing. This is a man who led us right up to the abyss and the only reason we're not defaulting right now is because the Democrats caved, knowing full well how crazy the Republican Party is. That's now considered "rational".

It's credit-claiming, krellin...

Every politician Left or Right does it...

And I think it's sort of fair, in a way--

Presidents get too much unfair blame oftentimes when things are going badly, so why not allow them to take a bit too much fanfare when things actually work for a change?

Just saying...I agree he's maybe a bit on shaky ground logically with some of his credit-claiming, but I think Boehner aslo acted reprehensibly, trying to use the nation's budget as a bludgeon and threaten a default for millions just to make Obama look bad.

So Obama might be bragging a bit here unfairly, but he's also criticized unfairly, as are all Presidents, and by comparison in the deal, he DOES come off looking better than Bloody Bully Boehner.

I never said Boehner was acting responsibly. I said he was the only leader who was "behaving in a decent way at least part of the time." I'd say that's a fair assessment, and one honest people can disagree about. As I see it, though, the actions of the Congressional leaders and the president were like a line-up of a serial killer, a child molester, a made man, a drunk driver who hits a station wagon full of nuns, and a bank robber. They're all thugs but you gotta admit the bank robber did the least harm. I see Boehner as the bank robber here. I also don't see Obama as the one who caused this latest crisis at all, apart from his two years of reckless spending of course.

This crisis will probably work itself out in early 2013 after the new Congress and possible new president are sworn in. The debt ceiling debacle this summer woke everyone up to the immediacy of our problems, and after a year and a half long national debate the country will be able to make the tough decisions necessary. If we can't then, well, I don't know what'll happen.