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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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Thucydides (864 D(B))
03 Aug 11 UTC
Hello, bonjour, salamaleikoum and na nga deff from Senegal
Ask me anything... or something. Good to see you all.. virtually.
10 replies
Open
Riphen (198 D)
03 Aug 11 UTC
Fast Diplomacy-6
Wanted to cancel but since Turkey did not press it figured you all deserved the draw for that crappy game....GG gameID=64957
6 replies
Open
Cockney (0 DX)
05 Aug 11 UTC
MOD NEEDED
game id= 64517
name= procrastination!

id like a moderator to look at multi accounting between turkey and austria pls
16 replies
Open
ninjaruler (101 D)
04 Aug 11 UTC
leaving a game
hi! I have been killed in a game and I don't want it to pop up on the right of my home screen, How do I get it to leave?
12 replies
Open
sully9678 (203 D)
05 Aug 11 UTC
The Rich must fight
Nobody is brave enough to make a 100 bet on a global game? What is up with this game come on all you real men lets fight.
5 replies
Open
Tettleton's Chew (0 DX)
02 Aug 11 UTC
The Poor need jobs not handouts
The overwhelming basis of arguments put forth by supporters of Big Government on this board use "the poor" as a rational for almost everything.
The problem with this line of reasoning is the poor need jobs not handouts.
Handouts keep the poor poor and dependent.
denis (864 D)
02 Aug 11 UTC
Not all poor people are unemployed...
denis (864 D)
02 Aug 11 UTC
And a large portion of the poorest employed workers in this country are illegal immigrants... They don't get handouts...
denis (864 D)
02 Aug 11 UTC
Yet they seem to be poor and they continue to be poor unless they are very fortunate...
Tettleton's Chew (0 DX)
03 Aug 11 UTC
Jeff Liebman, an economic adviser to President Obama wrote this piece write after Barack's inauguration.

http://content.ksg.harvard.edu/blog/jeff_frankels_weblog/2008/02/08/8/

The poverty trap is still very much a reality in the U.S. A woman called me out of the blue last week and told me her self-sufficiency counselor had suggested she get in touch with me. She had moved from a $25,000 a year job to a $35,000 a year job, and suddenly she couldn’t make ends meet any more. I told her I didn’t know what I could do for her, but agreed to meet with her. She showed me all her pay stubs etc. She really did come out behind by several hundred dollars a month. She lost free health insurance and instead had to pay $230 a month for her employer-provided health insurance. Her rent associated with her section 8 voucher went up by 30% of the income gain (which is the rule). She lost the ($280 a month) subsidized child care voucher she had for after-school care for her child. She lost around $1600 a year of the EITC. She paid payroll tax on the additional income. Finally, the new job was in Boston, and she lived in a suburb. So now she has $300 a month of additional gas and parking charges. She asked me if she should go back to earning $25,000.
Babak (26982 D(B))
04 Aug 11 UTC
Tet... you strike me as the perfect republican. talking to yourself in a bubble of your own creation and calling it enlightened conversation.

good luck with life bro.

but please take your crap and either shove it into just ONE thread so the rest of us dont have to waste our time with it, or go talk to the many echo chambers that will readily eat your crap analysis from crap analysts.

at the very least, respect the community you have joined... STOP CREATING SO MANY IDIOTIC THREADS!!!
King Atom (100 D)
04 Aug 11 UTC
Seeing this forum almost makes me mad...THE POOR NEED TO BE SHOT!
Tettleton's Chew (0 DX)
04 Aug 11 UTC
No King Atom. The poor need to be released from the cycle of dependency and indignity that accompany Welfare State programs.
The poor need jobs that bring them dignity and a real way out of poverty.
It's really simple.
Big Government statists need to quit victimizing the poor.

Tettleton's Chew (0 DX)
04 Aug 11 UTC
Babak, bye bye. The mute button makes you disappear like a bad smelling fart in a stiff breeze.

Poof. You are gone.
Babak (26982 D(B))
04 Aug 11 UTC
oh totally forgot about that button... I will definitely use it on Tettleton... now I know what a great idea it was.
Babak (26982 D(B))
04 Aug 11 UTC
I also love how his first reaction to disagreement is to 'mute' lol.
King Atom (100 D)
04 Aug 11 UTC
TC, for every dollar you have, there's someone who is in one dollar of debt plus interest. That's just how this stupid government thing works.
Tettleton's Chew (0 DX)
04 Aug 11 UTC
No King Atom, life is not a zero sum game as you just described.
If it was how is new wealth ever created.
You statement says that "for every dollar you have, there's someone who is in one dollar of debt plus interest."
So by your own words new wealth can't be created because life is a zero sum game, if someone wins someone has to lose.
I don't know when you will have an intellectual breakthrough and realize that new wealth is created every single day without diminishing the wealth of others.
Heck you might never figure out the truth, and that is a pretty pathetic prospect.
largeham (149 D)
04 Aug 11 UTC
"Big Government statists need to quit victimizing the poor. "

Lol, so says the guy who supports regressive sales taxes.
King Atom (100 D)
04 Aug 11 UTC
TC, first of all, wealth is rarely ever created, the amount of gold owned by each country is kept at relatively the same amount. The Federal Reserve generates money and gives it to banking companies. Instead of giving it away, they charge a minute amount of interest. The banking companies, in order to make money, charge a much higher interest rate when dealing it out to smaller banking companies who give it out to businesses and the common man. As money is dealt out, and wealth is distributed, so is the debt that comes with each dollar. And so, if you have a dollar, somewhere else, there is a lack of dollar plus a little more. Thus, the fourteen trillion dollars that America owes to China is well accounted for in the pockets of our big businesses.

If you want to argue, or simply do not understand, do not waste your breath. I'm too tired to debate this late at night.
Tettleton's Chew (0 DX)
04 Aug 11 UTC
"Wealth is rarely created."
What a stupid statement Atom.
I own a bull and ten dairy cows. The next spring the cows each have a calf. Now I have a bull and twenty dairy cows.
Who lost anything here Atom? No one.
I got wealthier because I can produce more milk to sale and more cheese etc.
How can people be so fucking stupid? It is amazing.
They have to sit around and think of how to ignore the world right in front of them to be so fucking stupid.
Tettleton's Chew (0 DX)
04 Aug 11 UTC
Here is another example Atom.
I own 100 acres covered by trees.
I'm married. Over the next decade my wife and I have ten kids.
We slowly clear the land and grow food to support ourselves.
As the kids get older they help clear the land.
I make build a house, fences, barns, sheds, etc from the wood I cut down.
I plant crops in the fields that used to be covered by forests.
I sell the surplus crops I grow.
I'm creating wealth every single, day, month, year, and decade of my life.
Who did I take from?
How fucking stupid can you be?
Tettleton's Chew (0 DX)
04 Aug 11 UTC
How can adults post such stupidity as "wealth is rarely created" when the entire modern world around us creates wealth every single day.
There is a lower percentage of the world's population living in poverty today than ever in the history of man because of wealth created by the ideas and energies of human beings.
I cannot believe how anyone could grow up to the age and 18 and older and be so completely ignorant of how the world works and has worked for about the last 10,000 years.
It is just astounding how many idiots the productive people on the globe keep alive.
denis (864 D)
04 Aug 11 UTC
I think what King atom is getting at... Is if you want to change that "wealth" into cash someone would have to end up with less cash...
King Atom (100 D)
04 Aug 11 UTC
"I own a bull and ten dairy cows. The next spring the cows each have a calf. Now I have a bull and twenty dairy cows."

That's not even close to what I'm saying. I speak of wealth being generated for the entire country, sometimes the world. You did not generate any wealth, you simply increased the amount of cows in the world. Now, because of inflation, the value of cow has gone down, but the amount of new cows make up for it. Yes, your cows give YOU wealth, but money is not actually generated from your cows. You think you're the intelligent one, how about you live out in the world for a while and think about how stupid you're being. I don't want to have to flaunt my IQ around again, but If anyone here is an idiot, it's you. I completely agree with you on "I cannot believe how anyone could grow up to the age and 18 and older and be so completely ignorant of how the world works and has worked for about the last 10,000 years." That's usually my argument, but you're just proving how well you must fit in with this world.
How fucking stupid can you be? Inflation works with everything, try to figure it out on your own next time.
Tettleton's Chew (0 DX)
04 Aug 11 UTC
King Atom, you have no idea what wealth is.

"Inflation works with everything." From the keyboards of imbeciles come stupidity like that.
Ask the Weimar Republic how "inflation worked with everything."

I also love the statement "wealth is not generated from your cows."
You seem to think that money is wealth.
Again I give you the Weimar Republic.
You have a bag of worthless marks that you can't buy milk at the store with.
I have a milk cow and am sitting in the shade drinking milk.
Who is wealthy.

I remember the stories I was told about the Great Depression.
My grandfather owned his land and didn't have a mortgage on it.
He was able to farm and feed the livestock and family.
All eight of my aunts and uncles made it through the Depression fine.
Money didn't mean much to them at all because they didn't see much of it.
So a man with land and livestock is wealthy regardless of the amount of money he has.
I invest as much of my money in real estate as I can.
Whenever I'm gone I will leave my kids tangible assets, home and paid off lots, instead of money that can lose its value through inflation.
That's wealth you boob.

As far as creating financial wealth here is a free lesson, and I've posted it on here before.
My company consulted with a municipality to modernize their street lamp repairs. It was a large city with quite a budget.
We researched a plan, presented it, and they implemented it.
It saved a significant amount for the city and all the expense of implementing it and paying our fees was negligible.
Did we take from anyone? In fact we made the city wealthier by showing them how to perform a crucial task more efficiently.
So quit making a total fool of yourself with ignorant ramblings about something you are completely unfamiliar with because it's painfully obvious you aren't wealthy, have no idea how to get wealthy, and wouldn't know wealth if it fell on you like a ton of bricks.
Rancher (1652 D(S))
04 Aug 11 UTC
There is a reason I play Diplomacy here and talk politics elsewhere ...
Rancher (1652 D(S))
04 Aug 11 UTC
"I own a bull and ten dairy cows. The next spring the cows each have a calf. Now I have a bull and twenty dairy cows."

but half will be males and 9 of 10 of those you'll have to neuter, and get no milk, maybe some really tough steak down the line, or if smart enough to work, an ox
King Atom (100 D)
04 Aug 11 UTC
"You have a bag of worthless marks that you can't buy milk at the store with.
I have a milk cow and am sitting in the shade drinking milk.
Who is wealthy."
First of all, use a freaking quotaion mark at the end of your question. Then consider the situation. Money is not wealth. Duh, I get that. If money has no value, then yes, the asset of having milk is your form of wealth. They're interchangable dumbass. Still, you're just trying to avoid humiliation after me explaining to you that you are not generating wealth from having cows. You get money, but as I said, the money is still at the interest rate. And that's another thing you left unanswered to. You literally have no argument, you're just bitching around because you think you know what's correct and won't actually think about what is being said. Half of your 'argument' is based off of insults that are poorly aimed and really only prove your lack of competence.

And yes, I suppose it's wonderful that you can survive Depression off of cows. Let me explain economically why. During the Great Depression, cow milk costed a lot of money, because there was a low supply and a high demand (How's third fucking grade for you). People like your grandfather were hoarding it to try to get by and a lot of people rely on milk. Therefore, your grandfather had a great amass of wealth from cows.

Once again, what I was saying before and what you're saying now are two completely different things. I was refering to national wealth which remains constant and you're talking about individual wealth, which can change daily. Money is based on wealth. The more wealth (gold) there is to back up the money, the more valuable the money is. If our system of wealth was based on cows, yes, money would fluxuate in value because of births/deaths of cows. But since the government does not mine precious minerals for federal use, wealth stays the same and therefore debt only increases. If you still don't understand, you're still a dumbass.

"My company consulted with a municipality to modernize their street lamp repairs. It was a large city with quite a budget.
We researched a plan, presented it, and they implemented it.
It saved a significant amount for the city and all the expense of implementing it and paying our fees was negligible.
Did we take from anyone? In fact we made the city wealthier by showing them how to perform a crucial task more efficiently."
What the hell does this have to do with anything? You used the money from the budget and spent it on designing a way of allowing them to spend less money. You took money from a source, who knows what that was, that's who you took it from. I don't know if that was out of your own pocket, or from the taxpayers themselves, but you took money from somewhere to complete this project and you spent it. You have no point, you're just continuing failing to understand basic economy.

"So quit making a total fool of yourself with ignorant ramblings about something you are completely unfamiliar with because it's painfully obvious you aren't wealthy, have no idea how to get wealthy, and wouldn't know wealth if it fell on you like a ton of bricks."

How is that even relevant? You're just trying to mock me to make up for your own lack of knoweledge. How is it painfully obvious I'm not wealthy? You're the one talking about your farms and cows. My grandfather was around in Germany when they went through hyper-inflation. If he weren't dead, I'd have him come beat some economy into your head. I live in a three story home, with over 4000 square feet of space. Why don't you come over to my house and ask if we're wealthy. You can sit down at my pool while I laugh at you from my Summer Home in LA.
I don't think you'd recognize wealth if it fell on you like a ton of cows. I bet you and your cows get to take your girlfriend on cruises every other month.

Just to make sure you understand loud and clear: Cows don't produce more wealth, they simply serve as a source of wealth.
Plenoge (100 D)
04 Aug 11 UTC
T.C. That quote you included with your opening post spoke more to why we need more government assistance than don't. She had a job, could barely make ends meet with government assistance. Got a new job, and couldn't make ends meet because of her tax bracket.

And then what are the Republicans in Congress trying to do to that poor girl? Pass spending cuts so that if she returns to the 25,000 income marker, she'll get less money. Your quote just argued my point, companies won't give her the help she needs.
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
04 Aug 11 UTC
The poor need BOTH, TC.

In a receding, troubled economy like ours, even the middle-class, as it were, is having trouble finding jobs--so the poor most certainly will be in dire straights.

Why?

I'd like to come back to Obiwan's Uber-Answer For Everything...

EDUCATION.

Education is behind EVERYTHING, or closer to it than jsut about anything else.

The poor are, on average, poorly educated and certainly less educated than the average man; he simply can't compete for a job in today's economy.

But we cannot let the poor man starve off...as much as the Social Darwinists among us wouldn't mind that, those are still human lives and, on a more issue-based platform, NO GOOD can come from large amounts lof poor people who feel their government doesn't care and won't help them.

Don't believe me?

Ask Marie Antoinette how that all went in her day.



I agree, they need jobs.

Eventually.

They should receive welfare with TWO stipulations:

1. They go to school/a tech/work skills training program so they CAN later work, and
2. They are off drugs or are in a rehab center.

Violation of either, and they don't get their welfare.

But while it is a stop-gap, it's a needed stop-gap while more permanent plansk are put in place for their lives...Rome wasn't built in a day, adn neither will our economy or their lives be reshaped so quiclky as to eliminate the need for--a mdoerate amount of--welfare.
Fasces349 (0 DX)
04 Aug 11 UTC
some (most) people are to stupid (IQ under 115) to be educated, thats something you never take into account.
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
04 Aug 11 UTC
First of all, referring to them as just "to stupid" and picking the wrong spelling of "too" doesn't exacttly make you seem like the type education is fit for, if you're going to be exclusionist...
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
04 Aug 11 UTC
And second of all, your fascist ideals really aren't going to fly, Fasces...

They're people, not proles.

They deserve an education.

What's more, you're "they're too stupid" argument sounds HORRIBLY as if it could take on a nasty racist turn...looking at history, how many times was slavery justified in America alone because it was thought the black man was "too stupid' to be able to learn?



And like him or not...WHO, now, is President of the United States?

You may think he's the worst President ever, you're welcome to that opinion, and that's open to debate.

What's NOT is that the man graduated from Columbia and Harvard.

So I think we can deunk all "they can enver be taught" myths here and now, thank you...
Tettleton's Chew (0 DX)
04 Aug 11 UTC
Plenoge, That's exactly the point. The poor can't escape their dependence on government programs. It's called the "poverty trap." Educate yourself.
Fasces349 (0 DX)
04 Aug 11 UTC
"First of all, referring to them as just "to stupid" and picking the wrong spelling of "too" doesn't exacttly make you seem like the type education is fit for, if you're going to be exclusionist..."
I am dyslexic, so be it. My point still stands.

"They deserve an education."
Never said they didn't, but your using education as a save all problem. Its not.

"nasty racist turn"
Average IQ of 88 speaks for itself. But I wasn't the one who brought it up.

"And like him or not...WHO, now, is President of the United States? "
I am against Democracy. I actually think there have only been 2 good presidents since world war 2.

"You may think he's the worst President ever, you're welcome to that opinion, and that's open to debate."
Lincoln was worse for freeing the slaves (jks). No Bush JR was the worst president.

"What's NOT is that the man graduated from Columbia and Harvard."
I never said Obama was stupid. However rare it is Black people can be smart to. I can admit that.

"So I think we can deunk all "they can enver be taught" myths here and now, thank you..."
what myths?
Tettleton's Chew (0 DX)
04 Aug 11 UTC
King Atom, I love the way you ended you long, moronic diatribe making a fool of yourself in your last sentence.

"Cows don't produce more wealth, they simply serve as a source of wealth.
You're too stupid to even realize that you mocked yourself.

I guess that is exactly why you idiots with socialist/marxist views of the economy always have to grub on the government for a handout or a job. You just don't have any real comprehension of how to create wealth out of nothing.

All I can say is thanks for the chuckle. I can't find idiots like you to run their mouths in person so I'll just have to settle for an idiot like you rambling nonsense on the internet.

As far as cattle though I love them. There is nothing quite like seeing a herd grown overtime. I never did get used to cutting the nuts off the yearlings with a razor blade and pulling those testicles out. They are so dumb they just get up right after and walk off kind of bowlegged. No wonder we eat them for burger.

Of course selling your yearlings to a slaughterhouse doesn't "produce more wealth" it on serves as a "source of wealth."
Am I following your dumb ass rhetoric right?
Fasces349 (0 DX)
04 Aug 11 UTC
Before you talk further I want to say one thing.

I strongly believe that there are 6 things a government has an obligation to provide. Other then that GO LAISSEZ-FAIRE!

They are:
Education, Health Care (two tier), Police, Fire and Military.
King Atom (100 D)
04 Aug 11 UTC
" 'Cows don't produce more wealth, they simply serve as a source of wealth.'
You're too stupid to even realize that you mocked yourself. "
Seriously, think about it for a little while, dumbass. If you have gold, or motherfucking cows as a source of wealth, THEY DON'T FUCKING REPLICATE!
Yes, cows reproduce. But do I have to explain to you a third time the way inflation works? You're just an idiot, I can't believe I wasted my time here.
Tettleton's Chew (0 DX)
04 Aug 11 UTC
I don't believe what you posted King Atom.

Verbatim from your post- "During the Great Depression, cow milk costed a lot of money, because there was a low supply and a high demand"

The Great Depression saw a huge DEFLATION of prices you total idiot.
Here is a link to pictures of dairy farmers pouring milk out on the ground to reduce supply to increase prices.

My God the ignorance I have read on these threads from adult human beings lets me know why TV commercials selling worthless trash for $19.95 make money.

Economic illiterates like King Atom spend all their government relief checks on that trash.

Here is the link to the milk being poured out you idiot.

http://culinaryhistoriansofatlanta.blogspot.com/2010/08/brief-history-of-national-school-lunch.html

So yes you ignorant fool. A family on a farm with a milk cow could milk their own cow and get milk while the poor in cities couldn't get the money to buy milk even when the price of milk fell below the cost of producing milk.

How do people get through life being so ignorant. I guess being totally unaware of their own ignorance is the bliss.

Sorry I destroyed your bliss King Atom, but if you make stupid posts you pay the price.

So don't forget that posting "During the Great Depression, cow milk costed a lot of money, because there was a low supply and a high demand" is about as wrong as an individual can get.

Here is a direct quote from

"During the Great Depression, the classified pricing systems broke down as the demand for milk dropped drastically."

Here is a link to the document you ignorant fool.
http://www.ers.usda.gov/publications/aib761/aib761c.pdf

Only an uneducated, ignorant person could post that the price of milk went up during the Great Depression when the price of milk collapsed dramatically.
Unbelievable.
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
04 Aug 11 UTC
"However rare it is Black people can be smart to."

However RARE it is that black people are intelligent?

It's RARE, based on their RACE?

...

How am I NOT supposed to take that as a racist comment?

Fascism or no fascits, your now assinging intelligence probabilites based on RACE paints your view ina whole new, nasty light...



Unless your reason for your otherwise-egregious statement would be that on average, African-Americans live in lower-rent and lower-cost housing than whites and are more likely to drop out of school and not finish college...?

But then, that'd have to deal with EDUCATION, and that's *my* silver bullet, at elast the one I'm arguing for, isn't it?

So--does your belief that it is rare for blacks to be intelligent stem from the color of their skin or their environment (At elast the environment of many of them?)

If it's the latter--poorer environments have poorer educational facilities, so that gives a nice correleation to MY position, and doesn't really give anything to yours...

And if it's because of the former--well, that's just a whole different can of worms you stand to open, isn't it?
Fasces349 (0 DX)
04 Aug 11 UTC
"However RARE it is that black people are intelligent?"
That was a joke btw.

"Fascism or no fascits, your now assinging intelligence probabilites based on RACE paints your view ina whole new, nasty light..."
Average IQ of 88 vs Average IQ of 106 (Mongoloids vs Negroids)

"But then, that'd have to deal with EDUCATION, and that's *my* silver bullet, at elast the one I'm arguing for, isn't it?"
If they drop out, it means they don't want education, which clearly means education will do them no good.

"So--does your belief that it is rare for blacks to be intelligent stem from the color of their skin or their environment (At elast the environment of many of them?)"
Whites evolved...

'And if it's because of the former--well, that's just a whole different can of worms you stand to open, isn't it?"
I love opening cans of worms :)
spyman (424 D(G))
04 Aug 11 UTC
"TC, first of all, wealth is rarely ever created, the amount of gold owned by each country is kept at relatively the same amount"

King Atom you are confusing wealth with the medium of exchange. The wealth of an economy are the goods and services it produces. The amount of money in circulation can remain the same but if there are more goods and services produced wealth has increased.

"Cows don't produce more wealth, they simply serve as a source of wealth."

I think the cow example was an example of a simple economy where the only thing produced was cows. This was to illustrate a simple point - wealth creation is not a zero sum game. Or at least it doesn't have to be.

To take another approach, King Atom: what do you mean when you say "wealth"? What is wealth?
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
04 Aug 11 UTC
"If they drop out, it means they don't want education, which clearly means education will do them no good."

Faulty reasoning.

It could be they can't AFFORD to stay in school.

In which case...yeah, some government help would be pretty nice...

Even in a case wehre they DIDN'T want education, that doesn't mean it will do them no good--you may not want to be vaccinated for polio, but it still does you a world of good if someone straps you down and puts in the damn injection.



Your shallow reasoning and semi-racist banter is really worrisome.
Fasces349 (0 DX)
04 Aug 11 UTC
"It could be they can't AFFORD to stay in school.

In which case...yeah, some government help would be pretty nice..."
Don't talk to me, I am the one who thinks public school education is better then private as long as the teachers union doesn't get in the way.

"Even in a case wehre they DIDN'T want education, that doesn't mean it will do them no good--you may not want to be vaccinated for polio, but it still does you a world of good if someone straps you down and puts in the damn injection."
I agree, but what in the cases where the person just isn't bright enough to succeed in a school environment. I go to a gifted school, so its not the case for anyone I know but there are surely some people with lower IQs who just can't learn with the work ethic that is provided.

I am not saying don't try to educate them, but don't assume they will get as much out of a course as you and me.

"Your shallow reasoning and semi-racist banter is really worrisome."
How so :)
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
04 Aug 11 UTC
"Don't talk to me, I am the one who thinks public school education is better then private as long as the teachers union doesn't get in the way."

I don't believe I have ever come out against public education...it can certainly be very poor, but that's a fault more of the state and a lack fo spending--so people on your side of the political fence--than the schools' fault.

And...well, not surprising you don't care for a union, either.

Tell me, Fasces--do you care AT ALL about the progess we've made socially in personal and civil rights in the last century?

"I agree, but what in the cases where the person just isn't bright enough to succeed in a school environment. I go to a gifted school, so its not the case for anyone I know but there are surely some people with lower IQs who just can't learn with the work ethic that is provided."

Well, for someone os apparently "figted" as yourself, you certainly seem to be rather vague about your defining what is "bright enough" to be allowed the opportunity to what is defined as a basic civil right, the right to a free and equal education. You seem to be setting quite a bit of store behind these IQ numbers--never mind that the IQ test and idea itself is open to various interpretations and so even if you had a concrete point your not-so-concrete facts would undermine yiur flimsy conclusions--and not going into enough detail AT ALL over why a NUMBER should decide whether someone is given the opportunity for what is--I want to repeat--a BASIC STATE RIGHT.

So I put it to you to either shore up those numbers and give some hard facts to back them up and give credence to what is otehrwise a number open to interpretation, or else find another reason that justifies violating the rights of millions because they don't quite meet your standard of intelligence.

(And I'm the Elitist in the group here, but at elast when I ask for a meritocracy, *I* clarify that the LEGAL RIGHTS ARE CONSTANT FOR ALL, REGARDLESS of abilitry, merit, or other qualifying factors. You're essentially proposing to play keep-away with the potential knowledge and civil, unalienable rights of tens of millions of people...on the grounds they're just not as gifted as YOU believe yourself to be.

Wow--and they call ME the snob...and I am, but you, sir, take the cake!)

I would also submit that "work ethic" not only isn't potentially soemthing one can "learn" in the sense your're using the term--as you've used that term to refer to IQ0applicable fields up until this point--and additionally point out a further flaw in your riddled logic, namely, that even if we were to buy your lunacy THIS far, you now have told us we cannot educate these people, for they lack the inteligence, according to you, and now they lack the work ethic...but if they lack work ethic, then how can they possibly get those prole-level maintenance jobs you alluded to previously? It takes a LOT of work ethic to work large machinery...so they MUST possess work ethic if you're going to put them to work...but if they DO possess work ethic, then there goes your argument that they lack it. So, unless you want to start exterminating people, your argument's idiocy has reached it's veritable apex.)

"I am not saying don't try to educate them"

You DId and HAVE said that...

(And I just hope your kidding about the racism really IS kidding...though under your nightmare system and idiology, I wouldn't be surprised...)
Fasces349 (0 DX)
04 Aug 11 UTC
"I don't believe I have ever come out against public education...it can certainly be very poor, but that's a fault more of the state and a lack fo spending--so people on your side of the political fence--than the schools' fault."
I never said you did, but you assumed I did due to my racist jokes.

"And...well, not surprising you don't care for a union, either."
They are allowing dog shit teachers to maintain their jobs. America spends more money on public education (per person) then any other country in the world. Yet it is ranked 23rd out of 34 OECD countries in education. China and Singapore (first and second place) spend 1/4 of the amount of money on education and yet produce better results. Throwing money at something wont automatically make it better (but it can help), its what you liberals have assumed for an eternity with no backing or evidence.

"Tell me, Fasces--do you care AT ALL about the progess we've made socially in personal and civil rights in the last century? "
This is a time in place for everything. But now that we have paid vacations, maximum hour work weeks, minimum wage, health regulations. What are the unions now fighting for? Preventing people from being fired, even those who deserve to be fired. Its bullshit.

"Well, for someone os apparently "figted" as yourself, you certainly seem to be rather vague about your defining what is "bright enough" to be allowed the opportunity to what is defined as a basic civil right, the right to a free and equal education."
Free education till the end of high school for all. its whats needed to keep a balanced and competitive free market and not make it so the rich get richer and poor get poorer. I have mentioned this many times today, but of course you only look at the negative sides of my argument.

"You seem to be setting quite a bit of store behind these IQ numbers--never mind that the IQ test and idea itself is open to various interpretations and so even if you had a concrete point your not-so-concrete facts would undermine yiur flimsy conclusions--and not going into enough detail AT ALL over why a NUMBER should decide whether someone is given the opportunity for what is--I want to repeat--a BASIC STATE RIGHT."
I go to a public gifted school. Its fully funded by the TDSB, which in turn is funded by the Ontario Provincial Government. However to get in requires a 97th percentile intelligence quotient (IQ of 130) or greater or 6 subjects over 90% in your previous year. It is a school for gifted students.

The Canadian government (and the US government as well, since they use the same definition of gifted) seem to assume that IQ tests are accurate enough to base their higher education around them, so I wouldn't be saying they are complete bullshit.

As for the IQ max/min basis. Anyone stupider then Bush I consider to be an idiot, anyone smarter I consider to be normal.

"(And I'm the Elitist in the group here, but at elast when I ask for a meritocracy, *I* clarify that the LEGAL RIGHTS ARE CONSTANT FOR ALL, REGARDLESS of abilitry, merit, or other qualifying factors."
You call yourself elitist, but not one of your oppinions matches that of an elitist. I am a real elitist. You are a liberal, nothing more nothing less.

" You're essentially proposing to play keep-away with the potential knowledge and civil, unalienable rights of tens of millions of people...on the grounds they're just not as gifted as YOU believe yourself to be."
When did I say that? As I said, you seem to ignore 90% of my argument and only respond to the stuff you can actually counter. And considering your advocating points I advocated in the post above yours proves how selective you really are.

"I would also submit that "work ethic" not only isn't potentially soemthing one can "learn" in the sense your're using the term--as you've used that term to refer to IQ0applicable fields up until this point"
NEVER! What I said was that you need both a relatively high IQ and a good work ethic to succeed. I never said anything more then that. Once again your making assumptions based on points I made and completely exaggerating my views. For example, that racist crap I spouted above I don't actually believe. But I was just playing along with this
"What's more, you're "they're too stupid" argument sounds HORRIBLY as if it could take on a nasty racist turn...looking at history, how many times was slavery justified in America alone because it was thought the black man was "too stupid' to be able to learn?"
That was a response to this comment, which had nothing to do with anything I said before:
"some (most) people are to stupid (IQ under 115) to be educated, thats something you never take into account."
and looking back I forgot a word. It should have been educated properly. My bad.

".but if they lack work ethic, then how can they possibly get those prole-level maintenance jobs you alluded to previously? It takes a LOT of work ethic to work large machinery...so they MUST possess work ethic if you're going to put them to work...but if they DO possess work ethic, then there goes your argument that they lack it. So, unless you want to start exterminating people, your argument's idiocy has reached it's veritable apex."
That is a good point, so I grant you that most of the underlings do have work ethic. However not every lower middle class job requires physical labour. Your stereotyping as much as I am.

"You DId and HAVE said that"
If I did I was misunderstood. And three times now I have said Education is one of the few things that should be free and public. So you couldn't have misunderstood the the extent that you did.
Tettleton's Chew (0 DX)
04 Aug 11 UTC
Largeham, a national sales tax is regressive? An inaccurate but nice label for taxing consumption at all levels equitably, but then again statists find illogical excuses for everything they do.
Go study your sales tax now and educate yourself that it doesn't apply to food in a grocery store. So how is that regressive? A rich man eats more than a poor man?

Tettleton's Chew (0 DX)
04 Aug 11 UTC
Spyman +1
Tettleton's Chew (0 DX)
04 Aug 11 UTC
Fasces, you are educating someone I've muted. Carry on.
King Atom (100 D)
04 Aug 11 UTC
"Only an uneducated, ignorant person could post that the price of milk went up during the Great Depression when the price of milk collapsed dramatically.
Unbelievable."

TC, yet again, all you are doing is saying the same things over and over again, trying to let yourself seem smart. You called me illiterate, which just plain means your fucking retarded. You said I'm just blissfully ignorant for not knowing that fucking cows' milk went down in prices. Well I'm glad you spent nine hours researching that just to try to prove me wrong. I was just using the example that YOU were using in the first place. So why were you repeatedly bragging about your grandfather having so many "assets," face it Tettleton, you're abandoning all of what your saying just to try to prove me wrong for once. Can anyone else here come and say TC, you're a dumbass. That way I can just leave.
Fasces349 (0 DX)
04 Aug 11 UTC
"Fasces, you are educating someone I've muted. Carry on."
you muted Obi? Who else have you muted?

"Can anyone else here come and say TC, you're a dumbass. That way I can just leave."
Everyone who thinks that has already muted him...
Tettleton's Chew (0 DX)
05 Aug 11 UTC
King Atom,
I'm sorry you embarrassed yourself posting about the Great Depression.
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
05 Aug 11 UTC
Well, Fasces, *I* have not muted TC...

But as he's muted me, I suppose he might enver know that...a shame, really, since I'm willing to hear his opinion and shoot back, but I guess he feels that my opinion is too banal or idiotic or irritating to respond to for his--of course--massively-superior mind.

It's a shame he'll never know that...

It's a shame he, the superior mind, mutes those he disagrees with so he doesn't have to face them or have them challenge his views, while I face such people and don't mute them, no matter waht they say, even if they're maple and troll me all day.

Ah.

It's a shame, it really is...

I'm sorry, you were busy educating me.

Please, continue.
Gunfighter06 (224 D)
05 Aug 11 UTC
To get back to the original point... (I always miss the beginning of these threads. It really is a damned shame)

Tettleton's Chew, your basic idea is sound. Give everyone jobs and let them work their way out of poverty. The problem with handouts is that someone gets something for nothing. Society is not advancing. The wealth is simply redistributed, not created.

I will remind everyone that the government should not be the one employing people. First, the government has no money left. Second, infrastructure jobs do not employ as many people as they did in the 1930s, so you can't expect the same results if you initiate a second "New Deal".


49 replies
King Atom (100 D)
05 Aug 11 UTC
500 Errors.
I think I'm causing them. I have internet explorer set to open it 500 times when I click on the WebDiplomacy link. And since I'm on all the time, I'm constantly refreshing the pages and stuff that crashes servers. Not to mention I know how to hack into the server if I wanted. I'm thinking about doing it just to show all of you how far I could go as the cult of personality here in WebDiplomacy World! Now give me 1200 D now!
14 replies
Open
Fasces349 (0 DX)
31 Jul 11 UTC
debt ceiling
will the democrats cave and make a reasonable offer to the republicans?
102 replies
Open
Raffy (1706 D)
05 Aug 11 UTC
world gunboat-5
Can we pause , pls ? I m off for 2 weeks , back at 20/8, thx .
0 replies
Open
Conservative Man (100 D)
04 Aug 11 UTC
Double mute button fail
When a page is loading I can see posts from a certain person I'm muting. When it fully loads they go away. That's fail #1. Fail #2 is that somehow, while a thread that I created was loading, I saw a post from someone I muted. I thought that people you mute can't see your threads?
22 replies
Open
King Atom (100 D)
04 Aug 11 UTC
Let's See If This Works
<b>Lesbian</b>
13 replies
Open
Ruisdael (1529 D)
05 Aug 11 UTC
Kenya fire sale!
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=62134&nocache=191
Who wants to pick up a nice, ridiculously huge Kenya?
0 replies
Open
bihary (2782 D(S))
04 Aug 11 UTC
some questions
Hi there. I played a few games back in 2008 and now I came back. The site has improved a lot. I would like to ask some questions that I do not find answers for elsewhere.
7 replies
Open
mapleleaf (0 DX)
03 Aug 11 UTC
New Game, all are welcome.
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=64962

67pts wta anon all messaging
4 replies
Open
King Atom (100 D)
03 Aug 11 UTC
WTF?
Why is WebDiplomacy telling ME that I'm posting to frequently. It prevented me from posting several times in my own threads!
3 replies
Open
TheGhostmaker (1545 D)
01 Aug 11 UTC
New Ghost-Ratings up
More prompt than in recent months, folks.
http://tournaments.webdiplomacy.net/
67 replies
Open
Alderian (2425 D(S))
03 Aug 11 UTC
EOG: 2011 Masters, R5G7
Ivo asked for an EOG, so here it is Ivo.
14 replies
Open
Fasces349 (0 DX)
02 Aug 11 UTC
Can anyone defend democracy?
After the political games going in these past 6 months on capital hill can anyone still confidently say democracy works?
75 replies
Open
taos (281 D)
04 Aug 11 UTC
world diplomacy map
i have a problem with the world diplomacy enlarged map but maybe its only me
when i press on the option to see the big map is not so big and its blur
1 reply
Open
King Atom (100 D)
01 Aug 11 UTC
WebDiplomacy Needs its Priorities Set Straight
Whoever can guess the top ten greatest songs with complete accuracy gets 10 imaginary Diplomacy Credits.
98 replies
Open
goldfinger0303 (3157 DMod)
04 Aug 11 UTC
I just had this wonderful sensation
Its like nothing I've ever felt before...
22 replies
Open
Tettleton's Chew (0 DX)
01 Aug 11 UTC
Motivation for the Debt Deal
The reason the Democrats agreed to a debt deal was that they could not afford for August 2nd to come and go without the apocalypse they predicted materializing.
12 replies
Open
MaxVax (5610 D)
04 Aug 11 UTC
pick up Russia, anyone? quick....
http://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=65008&msgCountryID=5&rand=9043
0 replies
Open
Tom Bombadil (4023 D(G))
01 Aug 11 UTC
Return after short summer hiatus
Looking to get my feet wet before I get back into the groove of things. Started a low bet password protected game, and looking to get a non-anon game with some quality players I know. More details within.
39 replies
Open
Agent K (0 DX)
02 Aug 11 UTC
Dunecat's Large pot game
any interest in a high stakes game?
9 replies
Open
King Atom (100 D)
03 Aug 11 UTC
Goodbye
I feel like leaving WebDiplomacy. Goodbye, maybe.
14 replies
Open
grenv (129 D)
03 Aug 11 UTC
Newbie looking for my game...
Sorry if this is obvious, but nothing in FAQs helped. I joined a game yesterday, my points went down from 100 to 75 (and still at that level) indicating that I joined.... but nothing shows up under "my games". How do I find the game I joined? Am I missing a step?
5 replies
Open
krellin (80 DX)
02 Aug 11 UTC
White House Hypocrisy...
They get the debt deal....and before the ink is dry, Obama is out giving his victory speech, proclaiming that the battle is not over, that everyone must sacrifice....Higher taxes are on the way. Kind of make a dude want to puke.
31 replies
Open
Troodonte (3379 D)
02 Aug 11 UTC
Gunboat means give me your SC's.
gameID=63722
This game is over.
Great game. I had no chance without any fleets.
Anyone wants to make comments?
30 replies
Open
hellalt (113 D)
30 Jul 11 UTC
sitter needed for about ten days
I ll be away from August 3th to August 15th.
I'm in 4 games total.
Anyone interested in sitting for me?
16 replies
Open
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