Socialists say that the market creates inequality. Socialists say that the market destroys the sense of community that prevents inequitable distribution of goods. Socialists say that when the community is emphasized instead of the individual then all individuals benefit.

My question is where is the proof to back up these claims?
Please give me a concrete example of how the market creates inequality.
Please give me a concrete example of how the market and the community are incompatible.
Please give me a concrete example of how emphasizing the community over the individual brings greater benefits to more people.

"Real Examples" are empty arguments based on rhetoric, in other words your professor's lectures that make all sorts of claims without a shred of supporting evidence.

"Real Examples" are real examples.
Here is one real example that the market is not the source of inequality.
Not even identical twins are equal.
When one is born with more body weight than they other the heavier one ends up measuring higher on IQ tests.
At birth identical twins can possess vast differences that will manifest throughout their lives.

That is a real world example. I know its something unfamiliar to socialists but someone needed to show you one.

Socialism is societies way of avoiding consequences. Capitalism is societies way of forcing responsiblity. You mess up in socialism the government catches you and helps you back up. A mistake in capitalism can cause you to lose your job, marriage, car, or even life. I obviously support capitalism. If a buisness wants to fire you then they should be able to. It is their business they should get to run it as they see fit. Socialism has given us what makes America weak. Affirmative action, unions, and this new health care. America needs to suck it up and revert back to its glory days you want welfare well then you have to work for it. Clean up government parks or fix a highway or bridge.

Holy Crusader. Thank you for that. I copy and pasted it to a word document and saved it in my documents file.
Well said! Author! Author!

When TC says, "Please give me a concrete example of..." what he's really saying is, "Please give me an excuse to call you a lazy degenerate idiot and mute you."

Did you guys know TC was in a movie once? Here's a clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5epuPMf-7Y

TC! You must be famous! Why can't I be in a movie?

My US history teacher was a German immigrant. He explained to us what it is to live in a socialistic society and how it never works out.

I've encountered that myself. Most individuals that appreciate the freedom and prosperity of the United States are those who came from the least free parts of the world. Thank goodness for immigration. It renews the appetite for freedom with every new arrival in this country.

I agree although only legally and ask any legal immigrant what they think of illegals. My teacher hated them and so does my uncle he is from Mexico. They both said they had to work hard to come over here but they did it. They are both citizens and do not see why it should be any different for anybody else.

I also have a question. If black people are African American, asians are Asian American, and latins are Latin Americans. Am I a European American. If you notice on any application they typically have all PC names and then white.

Yeah, you white men are REALLY being discriminated against.

I am concerned with the prospect of reverse discrimination. The idea of racial quotas for school admissions or jobs scares the hell out of me.

I only want complete freedom if it is in a completely TC-less world.

Silly socialists. I don't go to other countries and force them to speak my language or to accomodate my culture. White men are discriminated against it is just viewed as OK because we are the majority in power. Christians can be included into that. I am not saying minorities have the advatage but giving them assistance doesn't show anything but discrimination against them. When I see all of these African-American, Latino, and other minority aid programs it just makes me feel that is it because they cannot take care of themselves. America needs to learn responsibility, respect, and control. We are so concerned about being open and free we let anything go. After gay-marriage is passed how long will it be till incest will be accepted. They both love each other or beastiality or pedophilia. Being against homosexuality is not regressive it is progressive. In acienct societies, such as the Romans, Greeks, Egyptians, it was excepted in all of those places.

p.s. It is not trolling to state facts and opinions.

I try not to argue with idiots, they drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience

The idiot is the one who rejects all ideas but his own.

Both of you + 1

Gunfighter, why don't you be the new +1 Troll?

didnt u already do this thread leik 1 yr ago

Also, if I can just point out to you gentlemen arguing about reverse racism that we have a perfectly good already-derailed thread on that topic at present, begun by our esteemed friend Nemesis17, entitled:

"Why do people post threads that have nothing to do with the game"
(http://webdiplomacy.net/forum.php?viewthread=842417#842417)

@Holy

"My US history teacher was a German immigrant. He explained to us what it is to live in a socialistic society and how it never works out."

Wow, you have clearly drunk deep from the well of life experience. What luck you didn't have to think for yourself, as that is clearly not your strong point.

I made that arguement a long time ago. Look at my arguement about socialism and how it is an avoidance of consequences. I would rather be responsible and fail if I fail, than have mother government making sure I am always OK.

Don't worry about mother government, Big Brother will watch over you ;)

Socialism is the government picking winners and losers based on cronyism instead of individuals rising and falling based on their own character and merits.

What is freedom TC? *You* deciding the winners and losers? Your close-mindedness makes me laugh.

Thucy, are you still taking more from society than you contribute? When do you plan to carry your own load, in your 40's? Maybe? LOL!

LOL!

ACTUALLY I WAS THINKING I WOULD JUST STEAL FROM CODGERS LIKE YOU FOR THE REST OF MY NO-GOOD SOCIALIST LIFE

HAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

WHEN I TAKE OVER THE SOCIALIST GOVERNMENT WHICH PICKS WINNERS AND LOSERS, I WILL PICK YOU FOR THE LOSER, AND EVERYONE ELSE FOR THE WINNER

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH LOLOLOLOL HAHA

@Holy @TC

I am a staunch defender of free market economics, however I do not think Unions or Government involvement (Taxs and only Taxs) are in opposition to a Free Market. Unions are merely a group of individual actors who sell labor gathering together to negotiate efficiently with those who need to purchase labor. Labor purchasers can choose to negotiate with Unions or not, but eventually Unions will likely replace non-union individuals. Through negotiations a range of payment between the maximum an employer is willing to pay and a minimum an employee is willing to work for will be reached naturally. That all looks like free market to me.

Regarding taxes, firms create positive and negative externalities, which are cost's or benefits borne by society. Society is represented by a democratically ellected government. In the case of negative externalities, society(government) may decide that in order to be recompensed for the cost they have borne to tax the firm. The firm will likely correct its practices to avoid this cost. Still free market to me.

In the case of positive externalities, society(government) may decide that given the benefit of what the firm is producing, to little is being produced in the eyes of society, thus they will subsidize the firm to lower the price, or simple outright purchase from the firm. As a result either price decreases increasing quantity demanded, or demand outright increases, meaning that the firm will produce more. Also still free market to me.

I assume you both undertsood all the terms I used, let me know if I said anything unclear. Thoughts?

And again, people show that they have absolutely no knowledge of what socialism is. It is not the government picking winners and losers, it is simply workers taking direct control of the means of production.

@ Puddle

"Labor purchasers can choose to negotiate with Unions or not, but eventually Unions will likely replace non-union individuals."

I disagree with that position. I think that (in the United States), unions have outlived their usefulness. Eventually, all manufacturing will move into right-to-work states in order to get the best labor at the lowest price.