Guilt? That word doesn't exist in this game. I can't believe you just uttered that paradoxical nonsense! ; )

What are you talking about?
Guilt over what?
Whether to move to a certain area?
Or to stab an ally?
If its regarding moves, i suggest you leave the game for a bit.
It's meant to be fun, not stressful nor guilt-laden.

You really are an idealist, aren't you? :-)

I think most players can recognize and appreciate a good stab even when their on the receiving end. No need to feel guilty.

*** note to self - play on idealist's guilt feelings to keep him from stabbing***

I can't get ride of the guilt.
Like if you win the game fair and square, as in you simply get 18 before someone, then that's fine.
But if both you and someone else has 16, and as both of you on your way to get the 17th supply, you stab and get 18..
That's the guilt, and I feel awfully bad about it.

I wasn't sure what to do at all. I thought about it over and over again. What if he stabs me? What would he do? Although I have the advantage here, but if we changed the circumstance and hes where I am and I am where he is, would he stab me? And it makes me guilty that I made a decision based on what other people would do, not what my conscious tells me.

Crazy Anglican +1,

Exactly. You should enjoy lying to a faithful yet foolish ally and also enjoy the results of your stab.

And yes, on my college app for the word to describe you, I put idealistic =D

But still. A lot of guilt. Guilt for moving on turkey after I told him I won't, guilt for making the final decision.

That's the thing! Faithful! Imagine a marriage without one...

My point exactly. If your ally is very faithful then he/she is an idiot and deserves to get stabbed for not being more cautious.

I think of it like sparring in martial arts or boxing. When I get punched, that's a buddy telling me where to cover up next time and get better. If he didn't punch me; he's wasting my time, I won't get any better by sparring with him.

Yeah, but in this game, it's so difficult to find a faithful ally. I thought I should have valued it. Maybe mel is right. I ought to take a break after I finish my current games. I remember feeling just like this during my last season of playing.

Steven +1

-1 idealist
(unless this is a misinformation campaign)

The whole idea is to have fun.

A friend of mine says "Don't complain 'cause the Sun isn't shining on your head. Go find out where it is shining & stand there".

i looked over some of his other games, apparently he did exact this before, and other people draw with him. So I guess I'm the first stabber? Place yourself in my position. What would you have done.

http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=17183

I'd stab for the win. Move before he does and you are rewarded. ; )

Yeh. But isn't it more fun to draw? Win-win solution?
The idea was that the pot was so darn small, and it was point per supply, they kind of kill the justifications for the final move.

The point of this game is to win and there is only one winner.

Game won by idealist (241 )


I think you did good. It's a game designed for backstabbing and negotiations. THat's all part of the fun.

Don't you think of it as a loss-loss?

Tell me that I'm thinking too much, but by doing so, you are basically sending the message that human should be selfish and act according to what best rewards them, even if the reward is nothing except 99 chips and a +3% on winnings. Doesn't it kill the whole idea of human nature and the fact that people try to aid others? To me, stabbing at the final point is like saying "I can only be satisfied if I win, you loss." Which is not what is meant to be said. It's this constant inner debate...

If he'd done it to you, would you really be upset and lose your temper? If not, why would you be harder on yourself than you'd be on him? Forgive, forget, move on.

exactly! Zaza is right. loss loss. he lost the game; I lost a trusting friend. And remember the guilt that came along.

Crazy Ang, the problem is he won't, and for that I feel guilty.

A vet player won't forgive you for a tiny stab like that one? Please, he still had 16 centers....

By the same token. The game is an exercise in persuasion. This is not how I deal with people in RL. There is no correlation. This is a game with rules. If I'm not cheating, then I have nothing to apologize for. It's kind of like a very shy person getting into acting. I can play the silver tongued devil (okay not very well), but not actually be him. Just because I took Munich from an ally, doesn't mean I wouldn't give someone hte shirt off my back if they asked for it. THat's two totally different things.

The matter of it is this-a game is a game. In real life, if you were a diplomat, you may have been doing the same thing. It's supposed to give you an experience to help you analyze life a little differently. By stabbing you'll learn how real-life diplomacy worked in Europe in the late 1800's and early 1900's. It is also an enlightening experience to see how manipulating you can be and patterns of speech when people lie their way through things. I think you should play the game how it was meant to be played because, after all, it is a game.

If he doesn't forgive you for that, then I wouldn't play another game with him. He's the one taking it too seriously.

It's not losing a friend. You lost a friend in the game. Cool beans. You made a good friend for real life by enjoying a good game together. No guilt is necessary when you can both have a smile on your face after the game.

Maybe not the friend for real-life, but metaphorically...

thanks all

Be like Pearl Prynn...

I always feel really guilty about stabbing people too. I also feel guilty about going for 2 way draws. If someone has put up a really good fight it seems cruel to eliminate them and go for a 17-17 draw just for a few extra points. I don't think I've ever had an ally who has agreed with me though.

Just a thought though. People think it's all about winning the game but I'd say it's all about winning as many games as possible not just that one so if you always stab for the win you will find it harder to get those draws or turn things around when the chips are down in later games so I guess there is an advantage to being reluctant to stab your allies.