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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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Churchill (2280 D)
15 Apr 08 UTC
An apology to Xyanth
I'm sorry about being CD in our prosperous game against Italy and Turkey... I was travelling and it took me a while to get the internet up. I am sad to lose such a strong position against a weak enemy and one on holiday! Good luck... and beware France!
0 replies
Open
fraushai (1781 D)
14 Apr 08 UTC
Freedom of Speech
I see the deletion as an infringement of our freedom of speech. As of the time I left my polls thread, the discussion was rational and I see no reason to terminate it. If people are reluctant to accept the unpopularity of the US government, they could just choose not to open the thread.

Kestas, if you want to keep politics out of pHpDiplomacy, that's fine, but please be consistent in your actions and do the same to threads like " Vote for McCain or we're all doomed." Otherwise, you are in effect discriminating against those who are politically incorrect, i.e., the vast majority of us who dislike America for a reason.

I suggest that all responses containing abusive language be deleted, while the rest of the thread be restored. Or course, Kestas, you have the convenient option of deleting my account and continue with your political persecution, though by doing so you are murdering the voice of conscience on pHpDiplomacy.
31 replies
Open
gauauu (100 D)
14 Apr 08 UTC
civil disorder
I have a question about how a player in civil disorder is handled. Are all their moves set to hold? (so if I'm attacking someone in civil disorder, I need to move with at least one support to take the territory?) And can I successfully support hold a unit that belongs to a country in civil disorder?
2 replies
Open
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
13 Apr 08 UTC
No longer CD notification
This has happened to me a couple times and I was wondering if its been a problem for any one else.
A country is CD and I make my moves with that in mind only to find out that between me finalizing and the stat of the next turn, someone has joined the game. I think its great that people can join late, but could there be some form of notification, because this has messed up my moves on several occasions.
BTW, Kestas, you've done a great job-thanks!
9 replies
Open
canute (0 DX)
14 Apr 08 UTC
Asterix and Obelix- Who is your favorite...
Character? Mine is Dogmatix:-) reminds me of my dog, canute.:-)
2 replies
Open
eightpercent (100 D)
12 Apr 08 UTC
Ge Gentle
Just joined diplomacy. Big fan of pbm games and i was wondering if there are any tips that any one out there can give me? Thanks.
6 replies
Open
Treefarn (6094 D)
12 Apr 08 UTC
What would happen if you could choose your armies/fleet at game start?
Would your strategies change? I'm thinking this would be an interesting variant (and probably has already been tried). What changes would you make? The game would be completely different for some countries.

2 Italian Fleets? Turkish fleet in Smyrna? 3 Austrian Armies? Fleet at St Pete North Coast? German fleet in Berlin for support into Sweden first year?

Russia and Turkey could talk before hand and both agree on Armies on the Black Sea.
31 replies
Open
el_maestro (14722 D(B))
13 Apr 08 UTC
Bug in map or incorrect move did succeed
---------
Generic Title Autumn 1903, Unit-placing
http://phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=3506&msgCountry=Italy
---------

Is it possible to move a fleet from Apu to tunis ? That's what Italy did in the previous turn when you see the map.
Bug in map or incorrect/correct move ?
.
5 replies
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canute (0 DX)
11 Apr 08 UTC
Great site!
relatively new to this site, i am glad to see people on here, with intellect, passion, thoughts, ideas, and opinions. Yes... There are the ignorant too, however all in all, this is a fantastic site. A great game to play, and even a forum for chat amongst its participants. Who needs facebook?! Well done KESTAS!
7 replies
Open
kestasjk (95 DMod(P))
13 Apr 08 UTC
Deleted 3 new topics on the US
Why not find something else to talk about? Are these anti-american threads supposed to make me hate America, or hate loud-mouthed, obsessive anti-americans?
24 replies
Open
warrenthegreat (147 D)
11 Apr 08 UTC
Vote for McCain or we're all doomed.
The Christian bible says the anti christ will promise peace but deliver war. McCain however is promising war which means he can't be the anti christ. A vote for McCain is a vote for 8 more years without an armageddon. What has Clinton or Obama got to offer.
32 replies
Open
Twenty (160 D)
13 Apr 08 UTC
Idea for next update
Just had a thought today while entering some orders. I thought it would be beneficial to have 2 maps when entering orders. 1 with what happened last move with all the arrows. Another one under it (read: some where) with what your next move will look like.

Simply because once you start having a couple of units i start to loose track of visualizing all my moves. Does anyone have any thoughts about this?
7 replies
Open
pitirre (0 DX)
13 Apr 08 UTC
Rush; the greatest american band of all time
wow, i saw them last friday in concert as part of their "snakes and arrows" tour and they were fantastic! my favorite song of the nigh was "mission". just beautiful.

try to watch it in youtube by writing "rush puerto rico".

if they come to your town, go see them! great!
16 replies
Open
BrianW (195 D)
13 Apr 08 UTC
Points
According to the help files:

"The amount of points you get depends on how many units you have at the end. If you have the 18 units needed to win you'll get most of the points, but if you have more units than you started with at the end you'll still win something. If you get defeated, or have to leave the game, then all the points you bet are lost."

However, what happens if you survive a game, but you have less units than when you started out? For example if I was Russia, but I get only 3 units when the game is over, how many points to I get?
2 replies
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Hendrix (160 D)
12 Apr 08 UTC
Can the maker of this site contact me.
Hey all, I sent a message to kestas_j_k through sourceforge and there is no contact information available. I'd like to work on this diplomacy system instead of starting from scratch.l
4 replies
Open
Brutorix (100 D)
13 Apr 08 UTC
Heated off-topic debates
I know that at this point many people are getting annoyed and offended with the heavily political discussions taking place on this message board. It is rarely avoidable when you make political comments that you don't find people who disagree with you and when it comes to more serious international conflicts the internet is a place where people from very different up-bringing often clash.

The most important point I must make is that people choose to argue over these points for their own enjoyment - It is of course your choice whether or not to take part in the discussions. It is also an individual persons choice whether or not they take points brought up in a debate personally. The educational value of each debate is of course different depending on the individual but I know that many of the issues brought up have been able to at least open the minds of those involved to a degree.

The greatest thing about the debates is that they are time spent on the site, taking time to make political posts on the forum may give you the chance to hop back and forth from a game and develop a deeper level of actual ingame diplomacy when other players are online at the same time.

Anyways, I personally think that the debates should definitely continue to occur. The more personal attacks should be moderated and the people involved should try not to take political conflicts personally.
4 replies
Open
avinoam (174 D)
12 Apr 08 UTC
Keep Politics out of Diplomacy
It might be a good idea to refrain from heated topics such as real life politics (as opposed to in game politics) and religion.
This is supposed to be fun.
Enough tears are spilt over being back-stabbed in the game. :)
12 replies
Open
Medi (280 D)
12 Apr 08 UTC
Opening with Austria - an article
I've heard a lot of people complaining about getting Austria, so I figured I'd write a little bit about how to open with the Dual Monarchy. As a 25% Hungarian, I am uniquely qualified here!
Medi (280 D)
12 Apr 08 UTC
Okay. Every country has good openings and bad openings. The only difference is that if you choose a bad Austrian opening, you will probably not see 1904. As such, choosing a good one is very important! You may still not live until 1904, but at least you will have tried your best.

Firstly, it's important to look at who you border. Austria borders four different countries, which is a huge number - as such, your first priority as Austria should be to secure alliances with at least two of your neighbors, and preferably all four.

If Germany is at all competent, he will immediately agree to an alliance with you, and will not stab you until at least the middle of the game. Germany also borders four countries, and is generally at war with at least one of England or France by 1903, so he can ill afford to plunge into Austria and leave his back open. In addition, he is likely to give you any non-military aid he can, as he much enjoys having the panicked, beset-on-all-sides Austria neighboring him, who can act as a buffer. Don't worry about Germany.

Russia also is likely to come into contact with four different nations at the start of the game, but unlike Germany, Russia is unlikely to have your best interests at heart. A good Russia will secure a non-aggression pact with Germany from the outset, leaving the Kaiser free to play in the west; this means that Russia has two main outlets for expansion, Scandinavia and the Balkans, and if Russia can jump into Austria and get a huge foothold in the region, so much the better for her. On the other hand, Russia can easily gain territory by invading Turkey with your help. She'll probably do whichever is easier.

This means that you should propose an Austria/Russia alliance against Turkey as soon as possible, whether you intend to follow through or not. This also means that if you decide to DMZ Galicia like a dumbass, don't be all surprised when the Russians march in in Spring 1901.

First rule of Austria: Army Vienna to Galicia. Always. 100%. Whether you tell Russia about this, of course, is up to you - I like to do so, as a planned bounce, as it builds up your credibility if you say "I'm moving to Galicia," and, indeed, move to Galicia. If you're a gambler, then you can move to Budapest instead, but if you're facing a good Russia she will end your game with this mistake.

Oh, and Rumania is customarily Russia's, so be aware that if you bounce her out of there she will be upset with you.

Next, there is Turkey. Turkey, unlike the previous countries I just listed, has only two neighbors: Russia, and Austria. Three, if you count Italy, but that is really stretching it. All of Turkey's opportunities for expansion lie in the Balkans, and as such Turkey is going to want to either kill you with the help of Russia or kill Russia with the help of you, at which point he will either stab his ally or start pumping out fleets and rushing toward Italy.

This, of course, doesn't mean that he isn't a useful ally. Turkey's strong corner position can allow you two to dominate the Balkans together, and eventually march on Russia proper. And, of course, if you happen to manufacture a conflict between the Turks and the Russians, you can easily take advantage of the fray. In the end, Diplomacy is more about the players than it is about moving pieces around, anyway, so if you like the looks of Turkey as an ally, then go for it.

Finally, there is Italy. Italy is a really boring country, and people complain about it even more than they complain about Austria. (Hey, at least Austria has an exciting, if short, life!) Italy also has about three directions it can go in; it can attack France, it can attack you, or it can attack Turkey with your help. You, obviously, want it to do one of the ones in which it doesn't attack you.

The first way is just to not be an appealing target. Say you're ordering Trieste -> Venice turn 1, and do so; this stops any attack on Austria before it begins, and encourages Italy to go mess with France in Piedmont instead of thinking he can just walk into Trieste. Ask Germany if he's invading France; tell Italy that Germany plans to invade France no matter what he says. If he doesn't go West he'll go East, and that can only end in tears.

Well, tears or the Lepanto. The Lepanto Opening is a famous Diplomacy opening in which in Fall of 1901, Italy convoys into Tunis and builds a second fleet, then invades Turkish waters. In the Autumn of 1902, Italy convoys the army in Tunis into Syria, and, attacked on both sides, Turkey quickly crumbles. A full discussion of the Lepanto is beyond the scope of this post (just Google it if you don't know what it is; every Diplomacy player should at least be able to recognize one), but let it be said that the Lepanto is a solid opening that leaves you a bit vulnerable in the Spring of 1901, but makes up for it by quickly demolishing Turkey and leaving you with only three neighbors to deal with.

So, that's your allies. Now, let's look at your three units. It is in theory really obvious where they should all go in the Spring of 1901, but since so many people get it wrong I figured I'd explain anyway.

The Army in Vienna, as I mentioned previously, should go to Galicia. Always. Even if you're allying with Russia. Especially if you're allying with Russia. (Just tell her first.) If Russia gets Galicia in the Spring of 1901, you aren't going to last very long at all. So don't let her.

The Army in Budapest has more options. Oh, did I say that out loud? Oops, I lied. Must be playing too much Diplomacy, I guess. Anyway, where was I? Oh, right, Budapest. You only have one option here: go to Serbia. Otherwise, Turkey will just bounce you out of there from Bulgaria in the fall, you will get no builds in 1901, your neighbors will smell weakness (they already smell fear - c'mon, you're Austria for crying out loud, they always smell fear) and you will die a horrible death. Perhaps I'm being a bit melodramatic, but seriously: go to Serbia.

Your only alternative is to go to Rumania, and that doesn't do very much for you. If Russia moves to Rumania, then you bounce, tick off Russia, get bounced out of Serbia in the fall (if Turkey says otherwise he's lying), etc., etc. If Russia moves to the Black Sea instead (that is, if Russia is SANE), then you get Rumania! Except that if Russia moves Moscow to Ukraine in the Spring, and 90% of Russians do, then you'll just end up getting kicked out of Rumania anyway, and will have accomplished nothing for all of your effort except to annoy Russia.

The Fleet in Trieste has two main options: either it should go to Venice or it should go to Albania. Going to Venice secures you against an Italian attack, while going to Albania allows you to acquire Greece in 1901 (assuming you moved to Serbia from Budapest, which you should have). Which one you choose depends on your evaluation of the likelyhood of Italy walking into Trieste. But certainly, no matter which one you choose, you should tell Italy that you'll be ordering Trieste -> Venice! This reduces the effectiveness of any Austrian attack the Italian can muster, which makes alternatives more attractive. Like an attack on France, a Lepanto opening if you're willing, or a classic Italian "sit there with four centers until someone big and tough kills you." There are a lot of that last one on this site!

Anyway, hopefully you now know how to survive until 1902 with Austria. I'll leave you with a bit of philosophical advice: If you come to a fork in the path of life, take the road less traveled by. Or the one more traveled by. Whichever one leads to Galicia.

Good night!
flashman (2274 D(G))
12 Apr 08 UTC
Thanks, I enjoyed that...

A welcome change from some of the other, less informative posts we see.
kestasjk (95 DMod(P))
12 Apr 08 UTC
Interesting, well written, thanks :-)
flashman (2274 D(G))
12 Apr 08 UTC
I have just written a notice above my computer: "Medi, Austria - how he will move..."
canute (0 DX)
12 Apr 08 UTC
A good post, yet Germany borders 3 other powers, austria also 3. Not the 4 you claim, unless the Balkans have already been split. Otherwise, very interesting reading.:-)
Tetra0 (1448 D)
12 Apr 08 UTC
Many good points here, I liked it! However, you generalize a bit too much, I think. There is no right opening for austria (or for any power for that matter) with the exception of england taking nth. Any opening should be based on your assessment of your opponents as much as strategy. I'm not saying your points were wrong or anything, quite the opposite. They were all well-thought-out, well-written, and very interesting.
Tetra0 (1448 D)
12 Apr 08 UTC
Hmm, sorry posted that last one before my next point. Moving to gal is not 100%. I rarely do it, only if I sense hostility from russia or am planning to go anti-russian. Anywho, before you call me a dumbass I should point out that most of my solos are as austria, on and off this site. You can check my finished and in-progress games to confirm this. Gal is not always a good mood. Nobody likes a bounce on their opening move, so even if it's arranged, it may prompt russia to move against you anyway. Also if he is in gal, it is not hard to defend yourself and pick up a build unless italy or turkey are against you too, in which case you're done for whether or not russia's in gal.
Wombat (722 D)
12 Apr 08 UTC
I also don't really agree with anything, especially the start about Germany. I've seen a peculiar German Italian alliance befor ein some games and Munich goes straight into tyrolia and then Vienna. Germany went on to win.

Another thing is Budapest and Galicia etc. I reckon it really depends on the diplomacy that happens during the game- If you've got a hostile Russia maybe supporting yourself into Gal is best. Turkey will not always bounce in Serbia- indeed I think that's rare unless Turkey has hostile intentions as well, in which case you're finished anyway.

I dunno- but I enjoyed reading that.
sean (3490 D(B))
12 Apr 08 UTC
i wouldnt waste budapest supporting a move to galica from vineea in spring 1901. making sure russia doesnt have galica is more important that actually moving there. i feel that the key to surviving as austria is play conservative with triest- move to venice, get serbia and block galica and most importantly convince either turkey or russia what a backstabbing cad the other is and how reasonable you are.
abab (1312 D)
12 Apr 08 UTC
tactics is important but negotiation are much more, especially at the start. I do not believe much in a fixed opening scheme, though obviously there must be strong reasons not to move e.g. Bud to Ser in spring 1901. The real key is getting either Turkey or Russia (I cant decide which one is better actually) on your side, making NAP and possibly with Italy. This last is the real difficult part, since only a free Trieste allows building a ship.
Polar Bear (1038 D)
12 Apr 08 UTC
If you want Italy to move Ven > Pie in the first turn (allowing you to go to Albania then Greece), why would you tell him you're attacking Venice with Trieste? All this will do is make him order Ven > Tri.
McCain (100 D)
13 Apr 08 UTC
To scare him off.
Very good! Interesting coincidence, I am 25% Hungarian as well!
Medi (280 D)
13 Apr 08 UTC
Hmm. Interesting points here. I wrote this article from a state of abject paranoia, which is the state in which a player is and often should be after getting Austria - I assume that everyone has designs on Austria, and thus aim to make Austria a less palatable target than other neighbors.

Naturally, a lot of this depends on the kinds of neighbors you get, but I've found that on a site like this, people often don't write enough to get a good read on them.

I didn't deal with a situation in which Germany is unfriendly first because in my experience Germany rarely attacks Austria, but secondly because if Germany acts as an enemy to Austria, Austria is doomed from the get-go no matter what opening you use.

I suggested Trieste -> Venice instead of a Trieste H variant to encourage a Piedmont opening because Ven -> Pie, Rom -> Ven still keeps Venice free and allows an attack on the French, and doesn't really delay the attack significantly; on the Austrian side, it obviously prevents a Tyrolia opening from becoming all too dangerous. People, were you playing Italy, what would you do in a situation in which Austria told you that he was moving to Venice for defensive purposes?

The thing with supporting into Galicia is that actually being in Galicia is only really helpful if you want to attack Russia quickly at the beginning of the game, something I find is rarely useful. Otherwise, it isn't much better than just being in Vienna. Plus, getting Serbia in the Spring doesn't only guarantee you it in the fall - it also allows you to bounce Turkey out of Greece (or Bulgaria!) if necessary. It takes the diplomatic leverage out of Turkey's hands and puts it into yours. I'll expound more upon that in a revision of the article.

I am very interested in the idea of not bouncing in Galicia in the Spring; I had always seen that as an unacceptable risk for an Austrian. Tetra, how do you judge whether you think a Russia will move to Galicia or not if it is DMZed? What do you do if Russia does move to Galicia? Do you always move Tri -> Alb in the Spring to let you get a build? Is this really feasible for people not capable of conquering both half of Russia and Turkey by 1905? :P

(Finally: I am by no means as certain of my points as my article suggests!)
McCain (100 D)
13 Apr 08 UTC
Medi, if I was Italy, and Austria claimed he was invading Venice, I would order Ven->Tyr and Rome->Ven. This keeps Austria out of Venice and gives me leverage.
fwancophile (164 D)
13 Apr 08 UTC
wombat, that anecdotal perspective belies the evidence which is quite clear. a germany that is not friendly to austria is a fool. sure, sometimes a fool can muddle through, but it is foolish because germany and austria are the two central players. each are surrounded by the enemies. it is a clear waste of resources to turn against one another, and all the more so because the surrounding powers not in the center have "free" fronts that they do not have to worry about. bound by common misery of surrounding enemies, the two should work together, and then going back from the reason for it to the statistics, again, the stats are pretty clear.
Syrox (2098 D)
13 Apr 08 UTC
If I was Italy, I would do the same as McCain!
Raga (140 D)
13 Apr 08 UTC
yay, an actual Diplo related thread :)

I found it interesting to read, but I agree with some of the other poeple here in that, while these may be guidelines, the real choices have to be made as the game and diplomacy progresses


18 replies
DNA117 (1535 D)
13 Apr 08 UTC
Correct me if I am wrong.
Does attacking a fleet that is convoying disrupt the convoy? If it does then there is an error in this game in the North sea.
http://phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=3506
5 replies
Open
Chairman Mao (340 D)
13 Apr 08 UTC
Press Game II x WTA game
I will be planning to start a 102 pot WTA Press Game
Please post here if you are interested and I will email you the password.
If your emails are hidden, be sure that when I get the final list, give me a mail in prior so that I can give you a reply.

Following Reuters, this will be called Agence France-Presse
1 reply
Open
pitirre (0 DX)
12 Apr 08 UTC
new game just started; deception
want a new game, play at "deception"
2 replies
Open
el_maestro (14722 D(B))
11 Apr 08 UTC
Fed up playing with Italy
I keep having italy since 3 games, I like to change.
14 replies
Open
keeper0018 (100 D)
12 Apr 08 UTC
kestas, error
kestas-

in game "Yum yums-2", (http://phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=3271), i just took over turkey, and the game is in the unit-placing phase. however, i dont have any builds/disbands, and the game is stuck there. please help!
2 replies
Open
ComradeWilkinski (100 D)
13 Apr 08 UTC
New Game - Cheap One
Low stakes game.
0 replies
Open
avinoam (174 D)
12 Apr 08 UTC
Join my game: Chrispy Chicken - no silent players please
Please join my game if you:
a) actually talk to people during the game
b) don't abandon games
c) preferably if you check the site 3-4 times a day. :)

* snacks not included
4 replies
Open
shinobi (180 D)
12 Apr 08 UTC
game stuck in retreats mode
http://www.phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=3446

I have no retreats, but I'm the only player 'yet to move'.
1 reply
Open
El_Perro_Artero (707 D)
11 Apr 08 UTC
New Game- Stereotype the person above you!
Stereotype the person who posts above you. Don't forget to be as cruel as possible! Also, please don't argue the stereotype someone assigns to you.
36 replies
Open
TheGhostmaker (1545 D)
07 Apr 08 UTC
A Variant- Hidden team game.
Here is an interesting variant I came across not too long ago, involving a team of two, and five individual players:
42 replies
Open
anlari (8640 D)
11 Apr 08 UTC
Allied Warfare Result
The game Allied Warfare (3011) has ended with the victory of Turkey-England-Russia. Austria-Italy were destroyed and France-Germany have capitulated.

We now request that the game is drawn. Please post your confirmations.
4 replies
Open
sean (3490 D(B))
10 Apr 08 UTC
Playing Diplomacy without any diplomacy
Often in games, especially lower pot games i keep coming across players who don't engage in any diplomacy at all. how do they expect to win?
Nearly always they are attacked and destroyed or severely crippled and hover around at the edges. They don't send in early messages of goodwill and misdirection, they don't reply and even if there exits a situation where we could work together they don't initiate any conversation. It's like they are playing a no press game on their own. I understand that some players when they plan to attack somebody they don't send any messages but the initial negotiations in the first 24 hours are crucial. If you are Germany and england says "hello' and "lets work together" and France doesn't even reply to your first message ...well isn't that France basically just putting his hand up and saying "hey guys why don't you unite and attack me" ?
why would people play this way ?
1. playing too many games at once ?
2.lack of awareness that the diplomacy function is crucial to winning (ie playing it like you might play chess) ?
are there any other reasons?
18 replies
Open
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